"Repent of your sins to be saved" is false, works salvation

[All Becomes New]

I'd suggest to not say there is an adversary, a real devil, is unorthodox for sure

It's not an orthodox view to believe that Satan sins through us and it is not actually us doing it.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

It's not an orthodox view to believe that Satan sins through us and it is not actually us doing it.

I've never made that claim either.

A sin of Satan definitely transpires in us/the person. That's exactly what makes us sinners. These are not just subjects about individuals because there is no such thing as an individual in Christian theology. We have an adversary that works against us, within our own minds, as the tempter, the devil, the deceiver, the blinder, the thief.

Mark 4:15
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

 

[All Becomes New]

I've never made that claim either.

A sin of Satan definitely transpires in us/the person. That's exactly what makes us sinners. These are not just subjects about individuals because there is no such thing as an individual in Christian theology. We have an adversary that works against us, within our own minds, as the tempter, the devil, the deceiver, the blinder, the thief.

Mark 4:15
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Notice how Satan is not involved in the other seed that did not bear fruit. Just a bit inconvenient, right?

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Notice how Satan is not involved in the other seed that did not bear fruit. Just a bit inconvenient, right?

Jesus advised us that man shall live by every Word of God. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

Are you eliminating yourself from certain Words?

I'd suggest we all start as blinded seeds (Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2, etc) and to a certain extent, seeing factually only in part, we do remain partly blinded all the way through life in the flesh, the flesh remaining contrary to the Spirit and vice versa, Gal. 5:17

All you have to realize is that we are all blindsided by evil thoughts courtesy of the tempter and the equation is solved.

But if you say you are never tempted internally by the tempter, then you are claiming immunity from temptations of our adversary, who is then no adversary whatsoever i.e. doesn't exist in your world

 

[All Becomes New]

Jesus advised us that man shall live by every Word of God. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

Are you eliminating yourself from certain Words?

I'd suggest we all start as blinded seeds (Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2, etc) and to a certain extent, seeing factually only in part, we do remain partly blinded all the way through life in the flesh, the flesh remaining contrary to the Spirit and vice versa, Gal. 5:17

All you have to realize is that we are all blindsided by evil thoughts courtesy of the tempter and the equation is solved.

But if you say you are never tempted internally by the tempter, then you are claiming immunity from temptations of our adversary, who is then no adversary whatsoever i.e. doesn't exist in your world

If Satan did not exist, would anyone still sin?

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

If Satan did not exist, would anyone still sin?

If wishes were horses isn't good theology

All people are God's children. Matt. 23:9, Acts 17:28-29

But that is not what all people currently consist of. We all carry the adversary within our own flesh

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

 

[All Becomes New]

If wishes were horses isn't good theology

All people are God's children. Matt. 23:9, Acts 17:28-29

But that is not what all people currently consist of. We all carry the adversary within our own flesh

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Horrible exegesis.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Horrible exegesis.

The harsh reality of scripture, I know. This is how I find other disciples, to see if they are honest, oarknot

Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Everyone is so used to being buttered up by the God always and only loves you stories so the clergy can pick their pockets they forget that the Gospel was never a one sided love only story

You don't have to bother telling me how hate means something else. It means hate. Looked it up decades ago

 

[All Becomes New]

The harsh reality of scripture, I know. This is how I find other disciples, to see if they are honest, oarknot

Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Everyone is so used to being buttered up by the God always and only loves you stories so the clergy can pick their pockets they forget that the Gospel was never a one sided love only story

You don't have to bother telling me how hate means something else. It means hate. Looked it up decades ago

Sure. All the more reason to repent.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Sure. All the more reason to repent.

We should turn from the works of the tempter, but turning shouldn't include being turned into a liar and hypocrite about the facts that temptations are evil defiling thoughts and that we're better than other sinners by said repentance

 

[Der Alte]

It ain't works unless it is doing something required by Old Testament law.

 

[timothyu]

Last I recall we're supposed to love our neighbors as ourselves

Right, along with not liking what mankind sees as its instinctive nature

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Right, along with not liking what mankind sees as its instinctive nature

I'd call it our evil conscience that results in defiling thoughts, courtesy of our adversary

It's what makes theology so interesting. That there is an invisible alien race operating in mankind called the devil and his messengers

 

[JulieB67]

You don't have to bother telling me how hate means something else. It means hate. Looked it up decades ago

I have as well and we have to take in the context. Christ is not going to tell you to love God with all your heart, soul, mind and love your neighbor as yourself (all the law hangs on those) and then tell you that you must hate your mother and father, family, etc. We are to honor our mother and father. We have to apply a little common sense. The context is simple in this case. We can not put anything above the Father/Christ in this life- not even family and most definitely not ourselves.

I have my Strong's exhaustive in front of me and it clearly states-

3404 miseo -to detest (esp to persecute) by extens. to love less

So we can certainly see with context which meaning is implied in Luke 14.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

and then tell you that you must hate your mother and father, family, etc

Well, that happens to be exactly what Jesus said.

Considering the fact that we all have evil present with us, as Paul did, an evil conscience, it's certainly no stretch to think we should be against the very evil that we all bear. I'd be pretty disappointed if God wasn't against those things and we should be as well, even though there's nothing we can do about it.

That's why there's grace and mercy in Christ. We've been checkmated

 

[timothyu]

That there is an invisible alien race operating in mankind called the devil and his messengers

Perhaps but all adversaries, including man, put their will ahead of the will of God. No manipulation since the Garden needed to have man rebel and put our will first..

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Perhaps but all adversaries, including man, put their will ahead of the will of God. No manipulation since the Garden needed to have man rebel and put our will first..

IF there wasn't scriptural discloure of another entity class meddling I'd agree but we do have an adversary/enemy who is not people

 

[JulieB67]

Well, that happens to be exactly what Jesus said.

Going by the English yes but he also states he that hateth his brother is a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. And he also states love your enemies.

So we have to include the context and see what definition fits best. And we can certainly see that "love less" would most likely be the definition in Luke 14. And the Greek can certainly mean that going with the Strong's Exhaustive.

But in the end times, this will become more important because certain family members will betray each other so one has to but the Father/Christ over everything-including family. But that's for another topic.....

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Going by the English yes but he also states he that hateth his brother is a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. And he also states love your enemies.

So we have to include the context and see what definition fits best. And we can certainly see that "love less" would most likely be the definition in Luke 14. And the Greek can certainly mean that going with the Strong's Exhaustive.

But in the end times, this will become more important because certain family members will betray each other so one has to but the Father/Christ over everything-including family. But that's for another topic.....

Well, you see the whole point if this exercise is to love our neighbors and hate the devil who tempts us all internally

These two positions are done simultaneously just as Jesus rebuked Satan in Peter and loved Peter simultaneously

We have a legitimate focus for hated that is not the people

 

[timothyu]

IF there wasn't scriptural discloure of another entity class meddling I'd agree but we do have an adversary/enemy who is not people

More like a partner in crime. The war between God and the fallen elohim predates even the creation of man. The Adversary's interest is in this world and its allies simply because there is no place for it in the Kingdom to come and it will do what is required to divert people from knowledge of the Kingdom where only the will of God will prevail. Even Christianity diverted attention from the Kingdom and went back to alliance with the world of man, basically accepting what Jesus rejected in the desert.