Creationists: how close is the Jewish Calandar to the age of the Earth?

[David Lamb]

Sure it does allow for pre existent things. In many ways. Ive made a pizza ex materia. Does that negate the truth that God made all things?

Of course not. But however many pizzas you've made, you (as far as I know) do not claim to have made all things without exception. John says that all things were made through Him, which seems to preclude the idea that there could have been other, pre-existent things from which He made "all things".

 

[Job 33:6]

Weird you say there is no creating going on but then you say the verse says God created the heaven and the earth.

He did created the heavens and the earth. That's what happens on days 2 and 3. It's not happening in verse 1.

ESV:
6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse[a] in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 And God made[b] the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. 8 And God called the expanse Heaven.[c] And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry land Earth,[d] and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants[e] yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

Just read it. It tells you what God created.

Verse 1 says it is the beginning. Where God created the heaven and the earth. Pretty clear.
Confirmed in Exodus directly by God.
“For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20‬:‭11‬

Creation begins in Genesis 1. In the beginning God created the heaven and earth. Confirm part of the 6 days of creation in Exodus as I mentioned.

God can created anyway He wants. He is not limited to only creating by the spoken word.

God is not limited to a framework.

God created the earth in day. The ground being called the earth is not new and is even used today. Are you implying that the Seas are not part of the earth?

Tehom is not created in the book of Genesis. Tehom is not the heavens, nor is it the land (eretz). Read it closely:

Genesis 1:1-3 NRSV
[1] In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

Just as Genesis isn't telling the story of God creating darkness. Or God creating the holy Spirit. In this same sentence, we see "the deep".

By replacing the ancient near east context of Genesis with your modern ex nihilo big bang beliefs, you're erasing the tradition of the Bible.

And on day 3, it says that God gathered the waters under the heavens. But it doesn't mention God doing anything with the waters above the heavens. Which is an important detail as well.

God.created the heaven and the earth on day 1. In the beginning just as it says in Genesis 1:1. Of course after he created the Earth he added to it. He added form. He add animals. He added plants. He added man.

Nope. God made light in day 1. Read it:

Genesis 1:3-5 NRSV
[3] Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. [4] And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. [5] God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

Just read your Bible. Stop making things up and just look at what it says. It doesn't mention the creation of earth until day 3.

What does God say:
“For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20‬:‭11‬ ‭
He says he created the heaven and the earth included in the 6 days. I’ll go by what God said directly to us.

You won’t even say what your motivation is. Why won’t you. Are you trying to make the Bible match your Scientific views? If so just say so.

That is not true. The heaven and the earth were not created that way. He created many things not included with the spoken word

In Genesis, God creates with the spoken word, and every creation day begins with "And God said". What do you mean "that's not true" ? Just read it.

Every single day, look at how they begin. "And God Said". You're misunderstanding day 1 because you're not acknowledging the literary introduction. See post #8.

 

[Job 33:6]

Of course not. But however many pizzas you've made, you (as far as I know) do not claim to have made all things without exception. John says that all things were made through Him, which seems to preclude the idea that there could have been other, pre-existent things from which He made "all things".

Wait a minute. Why doesn't me making a pizza preclude God from making all things?

If God made a pizza today, would that somehow contradict the idea that he made all things?

No, of course not.

God can do both. He can create a pizza ex materia, and the heavens and the earth ex materia too, and this does not contradict an ex nihilo creation or that God ultimately made all things.

 

[Job 33:6]

Im going to share Genesis chapter 1. I'd like everyone to just slow down, and just read it carefully. Take note at how Ive highlighted various verses and color coded them. Note that days 1-3 parallel days 4-6. Note the blue literary introduction and the blue literary ending.

NRSV:
1 In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth.
2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. (Literary Introduction, see post #8)


The Heavens and the Earth:

Day 1
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

Day 2
6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse[a] in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 And God made[b] the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. 8 And God called the expanse Heaven.[c] And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

Day 3
9 And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry land Earth,[d] and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants[e] yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

The Host of the Heavens and the Earth:

Day 4
14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons,[f] and for days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. 16 And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. 17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.

Day 5
20 And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds[g] fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.” 21 So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.

Day 6
24 And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. 25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let us make man[h] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. 30 And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. 31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. (Literary Ending)



Each day begins with "And God Said". Each day ends with a note of what day it was, eg. "the sixth day".

The entire 6 days is bracketed or it has "book ends" verse 1:1 and verse 2:1 that close in the narrative. It has a literary introduction and a literary ending. I've underlined them in bold.

and verses 1-3 are part of a commonly used ancient near eastern literary introduction. We see it not only in Genesis, but in extrabiblical texts as well. And it is also present in Genesis Chapter 2. Chapter 2 verse 1 also is not part of the 6 days. That's just the literary ending.

Verse 1 is not actually a part of Day 1. Nor is verse 2. Nor chapter 2 verse 1. These are bookends.

See post #8 for more detail.

And then, after the 6 days, the 7th day marks the grand finale.
2 And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. 3 So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.

Tripartite emphasis is a big deal in the old testament. The grand finale, where God rests (on the throne, see Isaiah 66:1-2 or Psalm 132 NIV).

The point:
Day 1 and Gods creation actions with the spoken word do not begin until verse 3. Verse 1 is just part of an introduction.

 

[Job 33:6]

@David Lamb
Alright, I've completed the above color coded Genesis text to help distinguish the literary introduction from the 6 days of creation.

 

[David Lamb]

Wait a minute. Why doesn't me making a pizza preclude God from making all things?

If God made a pizza today, would that somehow contradict the idea that he made all things?

No, of course not.

God can do both. He can create a pizza ex materia, and the heavens and the earth ex materia too, and this does not contradict an ex nihilo creation or that God ultimately made all things.

Of course God can do both. But if as the bible teaches, God created all things, His initial creation did not use pre-existent material. Paul wrote to the Colossians:

“For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.” (Col 1:16 NKJV)


Psalm 148 starts:

“1 ¶ Praise the LORD! Praise the LORD from the heavens; Praise Him in the heights! 2 Praise Him, all His angels; Praise Him, all His hosts! 3 Praise Him, sun and moon; Praise Him, all you stars of light! 4 Praise Him, you heavens of heavens, And you waters above the heavens! 5 Let them praise the name of the LORD, For He commanded and they were created. 6 He also established them forever and ever; He made a decree which shall not pass away.” (Ps 148:1-6 NKJV)

 

[Platte]

Well, if you have something to say, feel free to. Otherwise, I'll assume that you're agreeing.

So, I got a message from a Moderator who told me to stop laughing at your comments and instead explain to you what the Bible says so that you would understand it better (I think that is the goal for all of us).

I told them OK and that I would stop laughing and respond appropriately.

Let me ask you a question.

Have you read Genesis in its entirety?
A couple of things I learned because I read it.

1. I know who killed Abel
2. I know why God destroyed the world with a Flood
3. I know the only humans that were on the ark.
4. I know who Abraham was married to, who his first 2 children were, and his age when he had them.
5. I know Isaac had 2 sons - one deceived the other to get the birthright (Jacob).
6. I know what Jacob had to do in order to marry Rachel, including who he had to marry first.
7. I know how many sons Jacob had, and I know many details about his son Joseph, and what led Jacob and his family to eventually move to Egypt.
8. I know how old Joseph was when he died and what was done with his body.

How do I know these things? Because Genesis provides a detailed description of these things. None of it written in a manner that would require me to wordsmith it, change meaning of common words, completely ignore what God himself says, manipulate the text to fit any meaning or scientific purpose. Its amazing how clear and detailed the information provided in Genesis is. It’s a straight read just as any written historical account should be.

Yet you want to take special exception to make extreme changes to the Creation historical account provided in the same book with the same purpose. Yeah, I laughed when I read some of the dips and doodles you presented but hey I'm human and I'd probably laugh if you made changes to the account of Abel's death, Noah's flood, or the life of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, and Joseph.

Trying to understand doctrine and theology in the Bible better (Do children go to heaven when they die, can you lose your salvation, etc) is something we should all do but changing the historical accounts provided to us by God – that’s a pretty serious thing to do and something I'd think long and hard about before spreading to others - I don't think God would take kindly to someone spreading incorrect information that dramatically changes the historical accounts He provided to us - In my humble opinion.

 

[Platte]

He did created the heavens and the earth. That's what happens on days 2 and 3. It's not happening in verse 1.

ESV:
6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse[a] in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 And God made[b] the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. 8 And God called the expanse Heaven.[c] And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry land Earth,[d] and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants[e] yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

Just read it. It tells you what God created.

Tehom is not created in the book of Genesis. Tehom is not the heavens, nor is it the land (eretz). Read it closely:

Genesis 1:1-3 NRSV
[1] In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

Just as Genesis isn't telling the story of God creating darkness. Or God creating the holy Spirit. In this same sentence, we see "the deep".

By replacing the ancient near east context of Genesis with your modern ex nihilo big bang beliefs, you're erasing the tradition of the Bible.

And on day 3, it says that God gathered the waters under the heavens. But it doesn't mention God doing anything with the waters above the heavens. Which is an important detail as well.



Nope. God made light in day 1. Read it:

Genesis 1:3-5 NRSV
[3] Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. [4] And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. [5] God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

Just read your Bible. Stop making things up and just look at what it says. It doesn't mention the creation of earth until day 3.


In Genesis, God creates with the spoken word, and every creation day begins with "And God said". What do you mean "that's not true" ? Just read it.

Every single day, look at how they begin. "And God Said". You're misunderstanding day 1 because you're not acknowledging the literary introduction. See post #8.

Your conjectors are not Biblical - thus hard to respond to what you are saying without sounding too preachy.

 

[Job 33:6]

So, I got a message from a Moderator who told me to stop laughing at your comments and instead explain to you what the Bible says so that you would understand it better (I think that is the goal for all of us).

I told them OK and that I would stop laughing and respond appropriately.

Let me ask you a question.

Have you read Genesis in its entirety?
A couple of things I learned because I read it.

1. I know who killed Abel
2. I know why God destroyed the world with a Flood
3. I know the only humans that were on the ark.
4. I know who Abraham was married to, who his first 2 children were, and his age when he had them.
5. I know Isaac had 2 sons - one deceived the other to get the birthright (Jacob).
6. I know what Jacob had to do in order to marry Rachel, including who he had to marry first.
7. I know how many sons Jacob had, and I know many details about his son Joseph, and what led Jacob and his family to eventually move to Egypt.
8. I know how old Joseph was when he died and what was done with his body.

How do I know these things? Because Genesis provides a detailed description of these things. None of it written in a manner that would require me to wordsmith it, change meaning of common words, completely ignore what God himself says, manipulate the text to fit any meaning or scientific purpose. Its amazing how clear and detailed the information provided in Genesis is. It’s a straight read just as any written historical account should be.

Yet you want to take special exception to make extreme changes to the Creation historical account provided in the same book with the same purpose. Yeah, I laughed when I read some of the dips and doodles you presented but hey I'm human and I'd probably laugh if you made changes to the account of Abel's death, Noah's flood, or the life of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, and Joseph.

Trying to understand doctrine and theology in the Bible better (Do children go to heaven when they die, can you lose your salvation, etc) is something we should all do but changing the historical accounts provided to us by God – that’s a pretty serious thing to do and something I'd think long and hard about before spreading to others - I don't think God would take kindly to someone spreading incorrect information that dramatically changes the historical accounts He provided to us - In my humble opinion.

What do you mean, with regards to the creation historical account?

What I'm saying is that, each creation day begins with "And God said".

That's just the way it is. Nobody can change that. In Genesis, God creates with the spoken Word. That's just the way it is.

God creates by speaking. So we know that creation unfolds when it says "And God said".

And the days end with evening and morning.

And on day 1 it says "And God said, Let there be light". And there was light.

What I am saying is, if we follow the text closely, that's what is created on day 1 (not the earth).

Verse 1, In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, depending on your translation may say an assortment of things.

Some translations like CEB say "when God created".

NRSV says "in the beginning when God created".

The reason for this is that the Hebrew is "in construct form". Similar to Jeremiah 26:1 or 27:1.

And so the result is:

1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"

Days 1-3 (in the middle)
Days 4-6 (in the middle)

2:1 and thus the heavens and the earth were created

2:2-3 grand finale.

The 6 days of creation are sandwiched between the literary introduction and it's conclusion.

And the same thing happens in Genesis chapter 2. See post #8. Nobody reads Genesis 2:4 and thinks that it's speaking of anything ex nihilo. The creation by God doesn't begin until 2:7.

The creation stories begin with literary introductions.

I'm not saying that the story isn't historical. I'm just saying that this history that is being shared, it's not big bang science where everything appears out of nothing. That's just not what it says.

It doesn't say, In the beginning there was nothing, then God created the heavens and the earth."

It says, in the beginning [when] God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was formless and void.

And so God creates it over 6 days. Then at the end, creation was complete and the earth was filled.

 

[Job 33:6]

@Platte
I took my time and color coded everything here for clarity:

Creationists: how close is the Jewish Calandar to the age of the Earth?

Sure it does allow for pre existent things. In many ways. Ive made a pizza ex materia. Does that negate the truth that God made all things? Of course not. But however many pizzas you've made, you (as far as I know) do not claim to have made all things without exception. John says that all...

www.christianforums.com

 

[Job 33:6]

"It’s a straight read just as any written historical account should be."

Believe me. I've said the exact same thing when I read through Genesis a million times before.

But then, I realized that there are different ways that the first 3 verses are translated in different Bibles. And I investigated why.

And the answer why, is what I am saying now. not saying Genesis isn't historical. But there is a minor complication here that many are overlooking. Namely, that Genesis 1:1 is written in construct form in Hebrew. And different translations render this differently (all correctly translated, but some a little more illuminating than others). And that's why it's important to look at the nrsv, ceb, or NRSVue among others, in comparison to the ESV and NASB, and to see what it is that they are saying, and to look specifically at why they are slightly different in that first verse.

Ex nihilo philosophy of the Greco Roman world, did not exist in ancient Isreal. Ancient Isrealites did not think of creation in the same way that we do today. Today we think of ex nihilo big bang, things appearing out of nothing. But back then, they didn't think that way. Look at how Adam was created. Adam didn't just appear out of nothing. God used material and molded Adam similar to how someone molds clay on a potters wheel.

Ancient Isrealites thought of creation in the way that Adam was molded. And that same philosophy is observed in chapter 1 with the formless earth. God molds the earth to give it form. That is the creation. The Greco Roman or post englightenment big bang ex nihilo approach is anachronistic and its not actually observed in the text.

And that's where the confusion is stemming from. The book of Genesis predates all ex nihilo philosophical thought by many centuries. Isrealites and Jews prior to the 2nd temple period knew of no such thing, nor did they write of it.

The Hebrew word "bara" in the OT, never means "ex nihilo". And you can do a word study on this. You'll never find a single instance in the entire OT of bara being ex nihilo material creation.

 

[Platte]

What do you mean, with regards to the creation historical account?

What I'm saying is that, each creation day begins with "And God said".

You're saying thats a strict statement - when its not. and its not Biblical. Day 1 was was the beginning of Creation and Creation began with God creating the heaven and the earth. Exodus 20:11 confirms (as if needed). Convenient how you ignore the Conjuction "and" that ties all the verses together - the first day. ALL OF CREATION took 6 days. Beginning with the creation of the heaven and the earth.


1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

That's just the way it is. Nobody can change that. In Genesis, God creates with the spoken Word. That's just the way it is.

No its not that way. The heaven and the earth was created without the spoken Word - even if you say its not part of day 1 but before day 1 - it was still created without the spoken word.

God creates by speaking. So we know that creation unfolds when it says "And God said".

God does not have to speak to create - thats silly.

Non Biblical statements are not helping your argument

 

[Platte]

"It’s a straight read just as any written historical account should be."

Believe me. I've said the exact same thing when I read through Genesis a million times before.

But then, I realized that there are different ways that the first 3 verses are translated in different Bibles. And I investigated why.

You saying something was created outside of the 6 days of Creation is not Biblical (it actually contradicts what God himself directly said) - certiainly not implied or confirmed anywhere else in the Bible.

 

[Job 33:6]

You're saying thats a strict statement - when its not. and its not Biblical. Day 1 was was the beginning of Creation and Creation began with God creating the heaven and the earth. Exodus 20:11 confirms (as if needed). Convenient how you ignore the Conjuction "and" that ties all the verses together - the first day. ALL OF CREATION took 6 days. Beginning with the creation of the heaven and the earth.

Well yes. Day 1 was the beginning. But day 1 doesn't begin until verse 3.

It's like saying "In the beginning when Platte made cookies, now the cookies were formless and empty, and then Platte said, let there be a cookie cutter".

Day 1 is the beginning, but the first sentence isn't actually an action. It's just a sentence introducing the narrative.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

No its not that way. The heaven and the earth was created without the spoken Word - even if you say its not part of day 1 but before day 1 - it was still created without the spoken word.

No. The heavens and the earth were not created without the spoken word. I don't know where you learned this one. Creation with the word and through the word is a core concept of the Genesis story.

God does not have to speak to create - thats silly.

Non Biblical statements are not helping your argument

In Genesis, creation by and through the spoken Word is Genesis 101.

 

[Job 33:6]

You saying something was created outside of the 6 days of Creation is not Biblical (it actually contradicts what God himself directly said) - certiainly not implied or confirmed anywhere else in the Bible.

I never said that God created outside of the 6 days.

God didn't create tehom outside of Genesis. Similar to darkness. God never creates darkness in Genesis. It's simply there.

That's just the way it is. They just aren't talked about in Genesis.

Your post Greco Roman and big bang philosophy does not change what the text says.

 

[Platte]

It's like saying "In the beginning when Platte made cookies, now the cookies were formless and empty, and then Platte said, let there be a cookie cutter".

The Earth had no topography when it was created and it was completely empty. (Without form and void) Sounds like the way an earth would be created to me. Not sure what your point is.

Yeah cookies are without form and empty in the beginning too. Then shape them and add chocolate chips to them.
Mmmmm makes me want to go make some now.

 

[Platte]

I never said that God created outside of the 6 days.

God didn't create tehom outside of Genesis. Similar to darkness. God never creates darkness in Genesis. It's simply there.

That's just the way it is. They just aren't talked about in Genesis.

Your post Greco Roman and big bang philosophy does not change what the text says.

Oh so the heaven and the earth were just there? That’s real Biblical.

 

[Job 33:6]

The Earth had no topography when it was created and it was completely empty. (Without form and void) Sounds like the way an earth would be created to me. Not sure what your point is.

Yeah cookies are without form and empty in the beginning too. Then shape them and add chocolate chips to them.
Mmmmm makes me want to go make some now.

The earth was without form when God created it, just like Adam was unformed (soil of the ground) before God made Adam.

The point is that, the material was there beforehand. It was just formless when God created it. Then by the time God was done, it had form.

 

[Job 33:6]

The Earth had no topography when it was created and it was completely empty. (Without form and void) Sounds like the way an earth would be created to me. Not sure what your point is.

Yeah cookies are without form and empty in the beginning too. Then shape them and add chocolate chips to them.
Mmmmm makes me want to go make some now.

Yea that's exactly right. Form them and fill them with chocolate chips.

That's what's it's saying. And before Platte begins making cookies, the cookies are formless and empty dough. And in 6 days, Platte forms them.

Then when Platte has finished his cookies in 6 days, on the 7th day, he blesses the cookies and rests on the throne and enjoys them with a glass of milk.

 

[Job 33:6]

Yea that's exactly right. Form them and fill them with chocolate chips.

That's what's it's saying. And before Platte begins making cookies, the cookies are formless and empty dough. And in 6 days, Platte forms them.

Then when Platte has finished his cookies in 6 days, on the 7th day, he blesses the cookies and rests on the throne and enjoys them with a glass of milk.

And everyone asks the same question, well where did the dough come from that God gave form to?

Answer: that's just not what the story is about. The ancient Israelites weren't as concerned about materialistic physical origins the way that we are today. Today we have been influenced by things like Big bang cosmology and a very materialistic way of thinking.

Ancient Israelites, they didn't think that way, that's not how they spoke about creation, that's not their cultural way of talking about it.

And the heavens and Earth are the same, materialistically or scientifically, they are there. But they are Tohu wa bohu, emptiness, void. Like a desert where there's no life, or if you are in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, there's just nothing there, physically you could touch it, but it is nothing, it has No meaning, no purpose. It is "nothing".

Genesis isn't about materialistic or scientific origins. It's embedded in a context that is ex materia. It's different than our modern science context today.

And God creates them in 6 days, and turns them into something, he gives them purpose and meaning. Like Adam being formed from the ground, Adam was materialistically there, the ground was there, but God took the ground and made Adam, and created Adam. And now Adam exists.

So the story is in ex materia terms.