Do Incels and anti Incels exist outside of the internet ?

[MassimoTheChristian]

I really don't think that Incels exist outside of the internet no one in real world calls themselves Incels or uses their terminology or arguments. There are lonely and virgin men but that's separate from Incels.

 

[bèlla]

I've never met anyone who described themselves by that term. But there were aspects of their personality or behavior that might put them in that category.

~bella

 

[Sif]

I've never heard of "anti incels". However, incels (as a general social movement/identity) is/are quite real. I am not 100% certain they (meaning incels) use that term to describe themselves or each other. Their views are rather disturbing. They see sex with women as a right and they feel that "right" is being taken away from them by women who refuse to have sex with them and rich/manipulative men.

They see sex with a woman as a top goal yet they despise women. The movement is rather disturbing. I had to do an analysis of the movement a few years ago when I was doing to work on Countering Terrorist Financing (AML-CFT). I will like the Wikipedia article to the movement here. I know Wikipedia is not always the best but this article does give a decent overview.

 

[MehGuy]

They exist, but they tend to keep their beliefs private in real life.

Personally I suspect many incels suffer from various masochistic complexes. Rejection kinks, wanting to feel like a victim because they have to settle for less than a supermodel, or some varation. Easier to try to garner sympathy with the idea that women universally reject you than it is to try to garner sympathy that realistically you can only attract less desirable women. I doubt many of them are truly "incel".

While men and women experience dating and hooking up differences on average.. while less women use the incel label than men, less than desirable woman are also prone to entitlement (it's sexist/patriarchal if men prefer.. ) bad thinking as well.

 

[bèlla]

Personally I suspect many incels suffer from various masochistic complexes. Rejection kinks, wanting to feel like a victim because they have to settle for less than a supermodel, or some varation.

Why do they believe she would consider them? It's never been easier to leverage your attractiveness than it is today. They'd never be her first choice. Maybe the desire is masochistic and they'd be better off with a top or something along those lines.

~bella

 

[Sif]

Why do they believe she would consider them? It's never been easier to leverage your attractiveness than it is today. They'd never be her first choice. Maybe the desire is masochistic and they'd be better off with a top or something along those lines.

~bella

Hello Bella,

I know you asked MehGuy but I will give you my answer, at least based on my research.

I seems many/most incels feel women "owe" them sex. Additionally, many incels seem to have very bad personal hygiene and are often not very financially stable or financial wise. Yet any women they deem "pretty" that isn't fawning over them and just going wild to "jump into the sack" with them (trying to keep in 'polite') is somehow stuck up, rude, and/or too much of a 'feminist'. Incels love to play the victim. They blame women for daring to have standards, they blame men who are deemed more desirable, etc. They don't ever seem to consider having healthier hygiene habits, moving out of mommy and daddy's basement, getting an education, getting wiser with finances, and maybe hitting a gym or going for a run a few times a week an option. instead it's everyone else's fault.

@MehGuy I wasn't trying to take anything away from your insight. I know you will have an intelligent answer (very likely far more intelligent than mine) for Bella.

 

[bèlla]

Hello Bella,

I know you asked MehGuy but I will give you my answer, at least based on my research.

You needn't apologize and I always appreciate your feedback. We'll have to dish on Tolkien soon!

They don't ever seem to consider having healthier hygiene habits, moving out of mommy and daddy's basement, getting an education, getting wiser with finances, and maybe hitting a gym or going for a run a few times a week an option. instead it's everyone else's fault.

It sounds like there may be a psychological problem contributing to their behavior. What you've described would be off-putting to most and few would think otherwise. But it seems like they're oblivious.

@MehGuy I wasn't trying to take anything away from your insight. I know you will have an intelligent answer (very likely far more intelligent than mine) for Bella.

MehDay is smart and you answered well. ;-)

~bella

 

[MehGuy]

Why do they believe she would consider them? It's never been easier to leverage your attractiveness than it is today. They'd never be her first choice. Maybe the desire is masochistic and they'd be better off with a top or something along those lines.

~bella

From my experience observing incels, most would never expect an attractive woman to ever consider them. In fact, they seem very masochistically obsessed with explaining and pontificating why they will never attract a woman. Honestly, I am a little confused with this complaint that I often hear that the problem with incels are that they are entitled. While I am sure some are, many seem to be the opposite of that. The core message I hear from incels are that they are doomed to never be in a relationship. The whole point I see from the incel scene is that it's a place to wallow in pain about being a reject. Not that they deserve a woman.

Saying this, I have always found the concept of "incels" silly. There is a phony element to the incel culture. While many seem to like to wallow in rejection misery, deep down they only care about the rejections they receive from attractive women. Why do they call themselves incels? Because even incels know that it's even tougher to be part of a self-identified group of men who complain that they can only attract unattractive women, lol.

In fact, I find it funny. I observe unattractive women often believing that society can change the beauty standards to their benefit. While men tend to gravitate towards the opposite idea. That society can never change the beauty standards for their benefit.

I believe this stems from the realities of how we treat men and women when they're in pain. Society tends to be more sympathetic with women being in pain compared to men being in pain. So, while women can get masochism from feeling like a victim of unfair beauty standards and often times actually be taken seriously by others, men have more difficulty with getting the same experience. Instead, I believe they tend to slip into a more male expression of masochism. What many call machismo. Men's pain is valued in society, but more in the heroic context. Incels like the idea that they are uncovering a brutal reality of being an unattractive man. That they can embrace the pain and that wallowing in it is just proving how much of the pain they can face.

 

[bèlla]

While many seem to like to wallow in rejection misery, deep down they only care about the rejections they receive from attractive women.

Have you ever read something and thought to yourself how the heck did we get here? That's what I felt with that sentence. ~lol

In fact, I find it funny. I observe unattractive women often believing that society can change the beauty standards to their benefit. While men tend to gravitate towards the opposite idea. That society can never change the beauty standards for their benefit.

I used to have these conversations years ago before the body positivity trend emerged. It's like you said. They wanted to change the culture to even the scales and make it more favorable for themselves. I told them they won't because they're not dating themselves. They'd have to make some hard choices and work on the areas they could improve along with their softer skills.

The reason they think like that is because women lie to one another all the time about their appearance. They get accustomed to false affirmation and they're shocked when men feel otherwise. I've never been in that camp. I don't tell a woman she's pretty unless I genuinely believe she is.

Men's pain is valued in society, but more in the heroic context. Incels like the idea that they are uncovering a brutal reality of being an unattractive man. That they can embrace the pain and that wallowing in it is just proving how much of the pain they can face.

Wow. You took one for the team. I wouldn't last too long around them before asking what's wrong with you? I understand being hurt and trying to work through the pain. But adopting a victim mindset and living from that position is a turn off male or female.

~bella