Kansas votes 62% to retain the right to access an abortion in its constitution.

[RileyG]

Uh huh?

Their only giving their pro life views.

Just because you disagree, doesn’t make it invalid.

 

[Desk trauma]

It's been done in the past and it can be done again for some of my points above.

Then end up in court, be thrown out as unconstitutional and hopefully the oath breaking lawmakers are thrown out in the next election.

 

[Desk trauma]

You should ask Desk Trauma, he knows who I'm voting for . And he says no third party will ever make the grade.

That’s not something I have said.

 

[DaisyDay]

YOU ARE THE ONE CHANGING THE SUBJECT! I QUOTED ONE OF THE OTHER POSTERS and this is what I said:

Right now I am arguing against those 97% of abortions so stop bringing up that %3 (rape, incest, health of mother) TOO JUSTIFY THE OTHER 97%!!!

Dude, shouting at a poster who has been banned for some time, for a post from two years ago is weird.

 

[The Liturgist]

Killing babies is a right???? Medieval times again??? Sacrificing babies to a pagan god!

Not even medieval; the Middle Ages were underrated, as CS Lewis famously pointed out with his concluding remark on medieval poetry, “And then the Renaissance came along and spoiled everything.” We can rest assured that, by the time of the High Middle Ages, Moloch Worship was extinct through the actions of the Roman Empire during the reign of Emperor St. Theodosius I, the first Christian emperor since the death of Emperor St. Constantine (recall that all subsequent Emperors from Constantius through Valens, with the exception of Julian “the Apostate”, were not Christians but members of the Arian heresy, which denied the deity of our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ, and rejected the Nicene creed, and which tried to pervert the Christian religion into something radically different. This was the result of the sinister bishop Eusebius of Nicomedia, who supported Arius but managed to avoid outing himself as an Arian by not attending the Council of Nicaea, and not giving anyone a reason to suspect him, until such time as he had so thoroughly ingratiated himself with the Imperial court that he was able to convince an ageing and increasingly unwell Emperor Constantine that Arius had repented (he hadn’t) and should be admitted to communion at the Hagia Sophia, a request granted by the Emperor, but in the event Arius did not actually partake of the Eucharist that morning, as he expired in the lavatory before having a chance to partake of the Eucharist (perhaps because of his intentions do do so unworthily, as we are warned about in 1 Cornthians 11:27-34). At any rate, following the death of the last Arian emperor, Valens, St. Theodosius, a Christian, came to power, and in the following decade would push through legislation banning the Pagan religions throughout the Roman Empire, and to demonstrate that these religions were now prohibited, he caused quite a stir when he ordered that the Altar of VIctory (an altar dedicated to the demonic pagan goddess Victory, one of several demonic* goddesses that were central to the Roman state religion, such as Vesta, whose cult in Rome was also suppressed, by the co-emperor of Theodosius, Gratian).

By the middle ages, Moloch worship had been suppressed throughout the Byzantine Empire, even in those lands which had fallen victim to the expansion of the Islamic caliphates (which at times resulted in genocides, specifically of the Latin-speaking Christians of what is now Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco, and also the entire Nubian Orthodox Church (an autonomous Oriental Orthodox church under the omophorion (great stole, but the meaning is akin to “umbrella”) of the Coptic Orthodox Pope of Alexandria, which would later expand, under Tamerlane and his descendants, to the genocide of most Christians of the Church of the East, including all of those in Socotra, Yemen and elsewhere in Arabia, outside the Fertile Cresent and adjacent areas in what is now iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey, and everywhere else in Asia except for the Malabar Coast of India (the Church of the East had previously stretched as far as Mongolia in the Northeast, and extended through China, particularly more culturally and religiously diverse areas such as Manchuria, down to Tibet, and included populations in various Central Asian cities on the SIlk Road such as Bukhara and Merv. Indeed, before the genocide, the Church of the East was the largest in the world at least in terms of geographical size, and possibly in respect of other metrics as well.

Meanwhile, the Byzantine Empire remained a major center of learning and human civilization, at least until Constantinople was invaded during the Fourth Crusade, which had ostensibly set out to retake the Holy Land, but which was really just a conspiracy by Venice to eliminate a rival, and also force the Orthodox into submission to the Roman Catholic Church, which is why it had status as an official crusade. Although the Venetian occupation of Constantinople would end, the Byzantine Empire never really recovered from that, and continued to decline, even as the Renaissance began in Western Europe, and after the Eastern Orthodox people of the Empire bravely decided to reject the Council of Florence, which had been approved by all of the Greek Orthodox bishops except St. Mark of Ephesus, which was basically a promise of military assistance in return for conversion to Roman Catholicism, it was only a matter of time before the Empire would fall and Turkocratia would begin.

And Turkocratia was horrible, but it lasted for less than 400 years in Greece, although Constantinople and Asia Minor remain occupied to this day by a country which has never even apologized for its more recent genocides in 1915 of the Armenians, Assyrians, Syriac Orthodox, and Pontic Greeks, and subsequent ethnic cleansing of the remaining Pontic Greeks with the 1920 population exchange with Greece, and for the 1950s pogrom against the Phanariot Greeks in the Phanar District of Constantinople (the small Cathedral of St. George, which is the cathedral church of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, has never been fully repaired following that incident, which, in my opinion, demonstrates that the Patriarch does get the respect he deserves from the Turkish government despite the prestige and international influence he brings to the country having demonstrated his loyalty - he even completed honorably a tour of duty in the Turkish military, as Turkey had at the time compulsory conscription of all males), and to add insult to injury, the Hagia Sophia has recently been turned back into a mosque in contravention of the instructions of Mustafa Kamal Ataturk, who desired that it be a secular museum owing to its history as both a cathedral and a mosque, as a symbol of the new post-Ottoman Turkey he was trying to build. And there are other issues as well, such as North Cyrpus, and the support of the Azeri genocide in Azerbaijan… But all of the horrors of Turkocratia were preferrable to the loss of Holy Orthodoxy among the Greeks, Romanians, Bulgarians, Serbians, Albanians and other Orthodox Christians living within what was at the time Turkish territory, who would have been affected by the Council of Florence, and of course there is no guarantee that the military support provided by the West would have been adequate to repulse the Ottomans to begin with, considering that even despite the miraculous naval defeat at Loreto, the Turks continued a land-based offensive, and their armies reached as far as the outskirts of Vienna, before being stopped by heroic armies of Poland, Germany and Austria in miraculous victory against Ottoman forces more than twice their number, under the command of the gallant St. Jan Sobieski, rightly hailed as the savior of Western Civilization. I suspect that Western forces would not have been able to pull off such a victory 230 years earlier, given the problems of logistics, especially in terms of supporting an expeditionary force on the Asian side of the Bosphorus, increasing Turkish naval capabilities, and the decrepit state of the Byzantine military (which had been given centuries of extra time through the medieval pyrophoric superweapon known as “Greek Fire”, but this was quite obsolete by 1453 due to the use of cannon and firearms).

Another bright spot of Medieval Europe was Kievan Rus, the ancestor of the Ukrainian, Russian and Belarussian civilizations of the present, as well as a great influence on Slavic culture throughout Europe and also the culture of the Baltic States and Finland, which upon its conversion to Christianity under St. Vladimir the Great, became a country that was entirely pro-life, with no abortion, euthanasia or capital punishment. Many people might think of the idea of a state in the Middle Ages not engage in capital punishment as unthinkable, given that we associate the middle ages with an excess of capital punishment, with the extremely harsh laws of England, where one could be hanged or beheaded even for theft, and of the Islamic countries, which were similiarly brutal, and also of the Spanish Inquisition. And when it comes to Russia, people think of the brutal forms of execution and corporal punishment that existed in the 18th and early 19th century, such as flogging with the knouth, which was often fatal, but many people are unaware of how Russia was damaged by the Westernization of Peter the Great, who uncanonically seized control of the Russian Orthodox Church and sought to impose what he regarded as the technologically and culturally superior Western civilization, modelling St. Petersburg after Amsterdam and various German cities, and even giving it, and the nearby naval base in Kronstadt, German names, and banning the wearing of beards, traditionally worn by the Rus of Muscovy and Kiev as an aspect of their iconological form of life - since our Lord wore a beard, Orthodox Christian men wore a beard, and so Peter “the Great”, unable to comprehend this traditional way of life, tried to suppress it, but wound up settling on imposing a tax for those wearing a beard, and attempting unsuccessfully to, with violence, suppress the Russian Old Rite Orthodox, who preserved the older form of the liturgy (which had been modified to make it more like the liturgy as it was then celebrated by the Greeks of the former Byzantine Empire), but fortunately, a large number of Old Rite Orthodox were later reconciled with the canonical church, and an open invitation exists for the rest, and there is a trickle in the right direction, for instance, in the 1980s, most of the members of the Church of the Nativity, a priestless Old Believer parish in Erie, Pennsylvania, decided to join the canonical Orthodox church (the priestless movement being particularly problematic, much more so than the Old Rite hierarchies that are not in communion with the canonical church, since they believe that all authentic bishops and priests had died by the mid 18th century, and thus there is no way to ordain any more bishops, priests, or deacons, and this results not only in their failing to celebrate the Eucharist, but also, in some cases, not even engaging in proper sacramental marriage).

 

[The Liturgist]

As long as the people get what they want, then I have no problem with that.

The problem with your argument is that one can find historical examples where acts of violence on racial and other grounds have been sanctioned by a majority.

The principle of democracy cannot be applied when it comes to the question of life or death, because even a majority of people supporting the murder of children would not make such a crime acceptable.

And it is the assertion of the Christian faith that children who have not yet been born are as important and deserving of life as those who have been born, since both groups are dependent on adults, in particular, their mother, for survival (especially if the mother is able to breast-feed, nursing being historically essential for survival to the point that when a mother was unable to do this, there was the institution of wet-nurses to assist), and both groups are in a state of development - the only difference being that those who have not yet been born remain within the womb, whereas those who have been born live outside of it.

But when we consider the ability of infants to survive even if born prematurely up to a certain point, the gross immorality of abortions should become clear, at least in the later cases of pregnancy.

The only situation where there exists any justification for the termination of a pregnancy is the rare case where not terminating it will lead to the death of the mother, for example, certain ectopic pregnancies, which are non-viable anyway. If it comes down to a choice between the life of the mother or the life of the infant, that becomes a more complex moral situation, until one considers that such a case is largely hypothetical, since there are very few conceivable clinical scenarios which could lead to that, and given the nature of surgery, there would be a risk of death to both parties no matter what option was chosen in such a case.

I am compelled both by my faith and my sense of moral propriety to further assert that if those groups which claim to provide “Reproductive Health” services actually cared about it, rather than about performing abortions and rendering men infertile through the mutilation of the vas deferens, a procedure which, like abortion and euthanasia, is an obvious violation of the Hippocratic Oath, they would be funding research in how to treat, prevent or reduce the occurrence of ectopic pregnancies and also in terms of how to improve the safety of deliveries, and also research in how to reduce the physical pain and psychological distress that can occur both during and after pregnancy, for example, developing effective treatment for postpartum depression, and developing improved treatments for morning sickness, food cravings and related issues, and also means of improving pain management before, during and after delivery of the baby.

Thus in relation to the original headline, it is impossible, I would argue, to, from an objective standpoint, for anyone who has received the Gospel of Christ, or who even respects Jesus Christ as a great moral leader and who places a value on life itself, to condone the results of this referenda in Kansas. I would submit that it is better for such referenda to be denied to the people, since providing for them gives them the opportunity to commit a grave sin, and such referendums amount to providing a temptation to engage in immoral acts. And in those states of the Midwest and the Prairies whose laws restrict or prohibit obscene dance clubs and posters advertising them, and gambling, and prostitution, it follows that the control of temptations to the public should be precluded. Having, therefore, a ballot referendum to decide an issue such as this therefore presents people with the same temptation to engage in harmful, sinful activity as allowing for billboards and other branding advertising cigarettes.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

Because those things have actual reasons to not allow them. "Disgusting" is not a reason it is an emotional reaction. The irony of using emotion instead of reason and then claim we make no sense.

Reason applies to abortion too at which pro-abortion supporters' reasoning goes haywire because abortion should be listed with those other "disgusting" crimes but for some reason, pro-abortion supporters' reasoning is extremely lacking. I wish you could really hear yourself and your truly flawed reasoning. Hopefully some day you will . We always need good people like you (truly concerned and wanting to do something about the wrongs in this world) to spread the truth about abortion.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

It’s disgusting because it ends a life.

Should they elaborate more?

You are up way too late; rest and may God bless you with a peaceful night sleep.

 

[rjs330]

Until the republicans get the votes at the federal level, then all this states rights talk will end immediately.

I don't think so.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

The problem with your argument is that one can find historical examples where acts of violence on racial and other grounds have been sanctioned by a majority.

The principle of democracy cannot be applied when it comes to the question of life or death, because even a majority of people supporting the murder of children would not make such a crime acceptable.

And it is the assertion of the Christian faith that children who have not yet been born are as important and deserving of life as those who have been born, since both groups are dependent on adults, in particular, their mother, for survival (especially if the mother is able to breast-feed, nursing being historically essential for survival to the point that when a mother was unable to do this, there was the institution of wet-nurses to assist), and both groups are in a state of development - the only difference being that those who have not yet been born remain within the womb, whereas those who have been born live outside of it.

But when we consider the ability of infants to survive even if born prematurely up to a certain point, the gross immorality of abortions should become clear, at least in the later cases of pregnancy.

The only situation where there exists any justification for the termination of a pregnancy is the rare case where not terminating it will lead to the death of the mother, for example, certain ectopic pregnancies, which are non-viable anyway. If it comes down to a choice between the life of the mother or the life of the infant, that becomes a more complex moral situation, until one considers that such a case is largely hypothetical, since there are very few conceivable clinical scenarios which could lead to that, and given the nature of surgery, there would be a risk of death to both parties no matter what option was chosen in such a case.

I am compelled both by my faith and my sense of moral propriety to further assert that if those groups which claim to provide “Reproductive Health” services actually cared about it, rather than about performing abortions and rendering men infertile through the mutilation of the vas deferens, a procedure which, like abortion and euthanasia, is an obvious violation of the Hippocratic Oath, they would be funding research in how to treat, prevent or reduce the occurrence of ectopic pregnancies and also in terms of how to improve the safety of deliveries, and also research in how to reduce the physical pain and psychological distress that can occur both during and after pregnancy, for example, developing effective treatment for postpartum depression, and developing improved treatments for morning sickness, food cravings and related issues, and also means of improving pain management before, during and after delivery of the baby.

Thus in relation to the original headline, it is impossible, I would argue, to, from an objective standpoint, for anyone who has received the Gospel of Christ, or who even respects Jesus Christ as a great moral leader and who places a value on life itself, to condone the results of this referenda in Kansas. I would submit that it is better for such referenda to be denied to the people, since providing for them gives them the opportunity to commit a grave sin, and such referendums amount to providing a temptation to engage in immoral acts. And in those states of the Midwest and the Prairies whose laws restrict or prohibit obscene dance clubs and posters advertising them, and gambling, and prostitution, it follows that the control of temptations to the public should be precluded. Having, therefore, a ballot referendum to decide an issue such as this therefore presents people with the same temptation to engage in harmful, sinful activity as allowing for billboards and other branding advertising cigarettes.

Thank you for your knowledge and eloquence. God has blessed you with great gifts .

 

[Desk trauma]

I don't think so.

LOL, sure, sure.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

Dude, shouting at a poster who has been banned for some time, for a post from two years ago is weird.

Sorry, I'm not following what you are saying. He just responded to me, didn't he?

 

[Hvizsgyak]

Sorry, I'm not following what you are saying. He just responded to me, didn't he?

You mean the thread was started two years ago. I see what you mean now. But the poster of the comment to me was just yesterday so the argument is still fresh and yes, I accept that I'm weird.

 

[Desk trauma]

Sorry, I'm not following what you are saying. He just responded to me, didn't he?

Two years ago.

 

[HIM]

Kansas votes to protect abortion rights in state constitution

Yay states rights.

Right and the whole point in handing the responsibility back to the states. But shame on Kansas for condoning murder

 

[DaisyDay]

Sorry, I'm not following what you are saying. He just responded to me, didn't he?

No, @cow451, whom you quoted in that shouty post did not respond to you. He hasn’t responded to anyone since November of 2022.

To clarify, I didn’t say that you are weird, just that action of shouting at a banned poster’s two year old post is weird.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

That’s not something I have said.

What? Are you backtracking on me now? You told me until the 3rd parties start carrying their weight (starting out locally and then going for the big prize of presidency), they will never make it (that's a rough summary of how I took your words). Check out page 19 here on this thread, there's the American Solidarity candidates. They may not have a chance (who knows maybe something bizarre will happen and they will have a chance) but I'm voting my conscience.

 

[The Liturgist]

Thank you for your knowledge and eloquence. God has blessed you with great gifts .

Thank you for your piety! May God grant you many years!

I see you are a Byzantine Catholic, by the way. I hope you might visit Traditional Theology for fellowship. Recently those of us in The Ancient Way forum were wondering if there were any Byzantine Catholics active on the site at the moment - we do have a lady in The Ancient Way who was Byzantine Catholic, but changed to an Eastern Orthodox jurisdiction.

I myself greatly love the Byzantine Catholic churches. I would be very interested to know which one you are a member of? A number of people use the term to refer to membership in the Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church, but there are many other sui juris Byzantine Rite Eastern Catholic Churches, such as the Ukrainian Greek Catholics, the Russian Greek Catholics (who have a parish near where I live, one of the only Russian Greek Catholic parishes in the US), the Romanian Greek Catholics, the Hungarian Greek Catholics, the Melkite Catholics, and the Italo-Albanian Greek Catholics, who I find particularly interesting in that they exist in areas of Southern Italy which historically had ethnic Greeks who used the Byzantine Rite liturgy, and now, due to the influx of ethnic Albanians, celebrate the Byzantine Rite liturgy once more, but are very closely integrated with the neighboring Latin Rite parishes.

At any rate, God bless you, my brother, and thank you for your pious agitation for the right of all children to life!

 

[The Liturgist]

Right and the whole point in handing the responsibility back to the states. But shame on Kansas for condoning murder

Amen

 

[Hvizsgyak]

No, @cow451, whom you quoted in that shouty post did not respond to you. He hasn’t responded to anyone since November of 2022.

But how did he get his response there for me to respond to? I thought he was the calm cool guy who does the DOS XX Beer commercials. What happened ?