Unity in the Church.

[All Becomes New]

We should all desire unity in the Church despite or even because of our differences in convictions.

We see that Apostle Paul says,

1 Corinthians 11:19
"Indeed, it is necessary that there be factions among you, so that those who are approved may be recognized among you."

This is as much of a prophecy as is this by the same man,

Ephesians 4:11-13
"And he himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ, until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, growing into maturity with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness."

There will always be the fivefold ministry until we all arrive at a unity of faith. That is not even close to happening yet. And this must happen before the Lord's return. Even Atheist NT scholar Bart Ehrman has said the Church is more unified today than it was in the first century. So we are getting closer to our goal. However, you would not know that by this forum. This forum seems to be constantly obsessed with our differences rather than our similarities. We all on this forum as least adhere to the Nicene Creed. That is a good place to start. But perhaps we could be much much better at aiming towards unity rather than division. I suggest that we could improve things greatly if we started with questions rather than debate. I appreciate things on this forum such as that the Orthodox Forum has a place where people can ask them questions about what they believe. We are all going to have our convictions about things. But the essentials are what we should strive in unity towards. Do you believe Jesus was the Son of God, born of the Holy Spirit, who committed no sin, who died on the cross for our sins, that he was buried, that he was resurrected in glory, that he is currently sitting at the right hand of the Almighty? Do you believe in the Trinity? Do you believe that Christ is the only way to salvation? If you agree with all this, then let your love for your fellow brethren flow from that. Do not be accusatory. Do not be divisive. Do not be hateful. Be loving towards your fellow believers.

I want to now bring your attention to a key verse from the night Jesus was betrayed.

John 13:34-35
"“I give you a new command: Love one another. Just as I have loved you, you are also to love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”"

And further,

Romans 12:19-21
"Friends, do not avenge yourselves; instead, leave room for God’s wrath, because it is written, Vengeance belongs to me; I will repay, says the Lord. But
If your enemy is hungry, feed him.
If he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
For in so doing
you will be heaping fiery coals on his head. Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good."

Finally, I leave you with the words of St. Augustine.

"[L]et me ask of my reader, wherever, alike with myself, he is certain, there to go on with me; wherever, alike with myself, he hesitates, there to join with me in inquiring; wherever he recognizes himself to be in error, there to return to me; wherever he recognizes me to be so, there to call me back: so that we may enter together upon the path of charity, and advance towards Him of whom it is said, "Seek His face evermore.""

 

[Philip_B]

I am not sure why you have not included the payer of Jesus in John 17

 

[Offline4Better.]

I am not sure why you have not included the payer of Jesus in John 17

Or these verses:

1 Corinthians 1:10,12-13 (NIV): "I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. What I mean is this: One of you says, ‘I follow Paul’; another, ‘I follow Apollos’; another, ‘I follow Cephas’; still another, ‘I follow Christ.’ Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?"

1 Corinthians 12:24b-26 (NIV): "But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it."

 

[All Becomes New]

I am not sure why you have not included the payer of Jesus in John 17

It was not meant to be comprehensive.

 

[rturner76]

We should all desire unity in the Church despite or even because of our differences in convictions.

We see that Apostle Paul says,

1 Corinthians 11:19
"Indeed, it is necessary that there be factions among you, so that those who are approved may be recognized among you."

This is as much of a prophecy as is this by the same man,

Ephesians 4:11-13
"And he himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ, until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, growing into maturity with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness."

There will always be the fivefold ministry until we all arrive at a unity of faith. That is not even close to happening yet. And this must happen before the Lord's return. Even Atheist NT scholar Bart Ehrman has said the Church is more unified today than it was in the first century. So we are getting closer to our goal. However, you would not know that by this forum. This forum seems to be constantly obsessed with our differences rather than our similarities. We all on this forum as least adhere to the Nicene Creed. That is a good place to start. But perhaps we could be much much better at aiming towards unity rather than division. I suggest that we could improve things greatly if we started with questions rather than debate. I appreciate things on this forum such as that the Orthodox Forum has a place where people can ask them questions about what they believe. We are all going to have our convictions about things. But the essentials are what we should strive in unity towards. Do you believe Jesus was the Son of God, born of the Holy Spirit, who committed no sin, who died on the cross for our sins, that he was buried, that he was resurrected in glory, that he is currently sitting at the right hand of the Almighty? Do you believe in the Trinity? Do you believe that Christ is the only way to salvation? If you agree with all this, then let your love for your fellow brethren flow from that. Do not be accusatory. Do not be divisive. Do not be hateful. Be loving towards your fellow believers.

I want to now bring your attention to a key verse from the night Jesus was betrayed.

John 13:34-35
"“I give you a new command: Love one another. Just as I have loved you, you are also to love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”"

And further,

Romans 12:19-21
"Friends, do not avenge yourselves; instead, leave room for God’s wrath, because it is written, Vengeance belongs to me; I will repay, says the Lord. But
If your enemy is hungry, feed him.
If he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
For in so doing
you will be heaping fiery coals on his head. Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good."

Finally, I leave you with the words of St. Augustine.

"[L]et me ask of my reader, wherever, alike with myself, he is certain, there to go on with me; wherever, alike with myself, he hesitates, there to join with me in inquiring; wherever he recognizes himself to be in error, there to return to me; wherever he recognizes me to be so, there to call me back: so that we may enter together upon the path of charity, and advance towards Him of whom it is said, "Seek His face evermore.""

I want to lift this post up and say AMEN to it halleluia for a great man has just spoken and his words move across all of our divisions and claim unity in Christ! Again, Halleujah and let this message be heard amongst all of the denominations

I admit that many times I have debated and tried to prove one of my brothers oe sisters wrong for what they believe. Why don't we focus on what we can agree upon and build universal fellowship rather that try to prove why we are right and they are wrong?

Great post my brother in Christ. We may disagree on this or that but we are both still in Christ. I look forward to seeing how this thread develops.

I am really very excited to see this kind of philosophy on this forum.....Keep it up!

 

[th1bill]

We should all desire unity in the Church despite or even because of our differences in convictions.

We see that Apostle Paul says,

1 Corinthians 11:19
"Indeed, it is necessary that there be factions among you, so that those who are approved may be recognized among you."

This is as much of a prophecy as is this by the same man,

Ephesians 4:11-13
"And he himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ, until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, growing into maturity with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness."

There will always be the fivefold ministry until we all arrive at a unity of faith. That is not even close to happening yet. And this must happen before the Lord's return. Even Atheist NT scholar Bart Ehrman has said the Church is more unified today than it was in the first century. So we are getting closer to our goal. However, you would not know that by this forum. This forum seems to be constantly obsessed with our differences rather than our similarities. We all on this forum as least adhere to the Nicene Creed. That is a good place to start. But perhaps we could be much much better at aiming towards unity rather than division. I suggest that we could improve things greatly if we started with questions rather than debate. I appreciate things on this forum such as that the Orthodox Forum has a place where people can ask them questions about what they believe. We are all going to have our convictions about things. But the essentials are what we should strive in unity towards. Do you believe Jesus was the Son of God, born of the Holy Spirit, who committed no sin, who died on the cross for our sins, that he was buried, that he was resurrected in glory, that he is currently sitting at the right hand of the Almighty? Do you believe in the Trinity? Do you believe that Christ is the only way to salvation? If you agree with all this, then let your love for your fellow brethren flow from that. Do not be accusatory. Do not be divisive. Do not be hateful. Be loving towards your fellow believers.

I want to now bring your attention to a key verse from the night Jesus was betrayed.

John 13:34-35
"“I give you a new command: Love one another. Just as I have loved you, you are also to love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”"

And further,

Romans 12:19-21
"Friends, do not avenge yourselves; instead, leave room for God’s wrath, because it is written, Vengeance belongs to me; I will repay, says the Lord. But
If your enemy is hungry, feed him.
If he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
For in so doing
you will be heaping fiery coals on his head. Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good."

Finally, I leave you with the words of St. Augustine.

"[L]et me ask of my reader, wherever, alike with myself, he is certain, there to go on with me; wherever, alike with myself, he hesitates, there to join with me in inquiring; wherever he recognizes himself to be in error, there to return to me; wherever he recognizes me to be so, there to call me back: so that we may enter together upon the path of charity, and advance towards Him of whom it is said, "Seek His face evermore.""

Jessie, important message and all I can add is a note about what "The Church" actually is. All of these pretty Church Buildings will burn with the fire that burns the Earth. The Church is found all over the world, even in these forums. The Church is composed of people that are often thought to be simple because we are saved by faith, some Baptists, some Catholics, some, not many, from every congregation, no matter what they call themselves because we believe Yashuah is returning for us.

May our Elohim bless you and your posts/

 

[RandyPNW]

We should all desire unity in the Church despite or even because of our differences in convictions.

We see that Apostle Paul says,

1 Corinthians 11:19
"Indeed, it is necessary that there be factions among you, so that those who are approved may be recognized among you."

This is as much of a prophecy as is this by the same man,

Ephesians 4:11-13
"And he himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ, until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, growing into maturity with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness."

There will always be the fivefold ministry until we all arrive at a unity of faith. That is not even close to happening yet. And this must happen before the Lord's return. Even Atheist NT scholar Bart Ehrman has said the Church is more unified today than it was in the first century. So we are getting closer to our goal. However, you would not know that by this forum. This forum seems to be constantly obsessed with our differences rather than our similarities. We all on this forum as least adhere to the Nicene Creed. That is a good place to start. But perhaps we could be much much better at aiming towards unity rather than division. I suggest that we could improve things greatly if we started with questions rather than debate. I appreciate things on this forum such as that the Orthodox Forum has a place where people can ask them questions about what they believe. We are all going to have our convictions about things. But the essentials are what we should strive in unity towards. Do you believe Jesus was the Son of God, born of the Holy Spirit, who committed no sin, who died on the cross for our sins, that he was buried, that he was resurrected in glory, that he is currently sitting at the right hand of the Almighty? Do you believe in the Trinity? Do you believe that Christ is the only way to salvation? If you agree with all this, then let your love for your fellow brethren flow from that. Do not be accusatory. Do not be divisive. Do not be hateful. Be loving towards your fellow believers.

I want to now bring your attention to a key verse from the night Jesus was betrayed.

John 13:34-35
"“I give you a new command: Love one another. Just as I have loved you, you are also to love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”"

And further,

Romans 12:19-21
"Friends, do not avenge yourselves; instead, leave room for God’s wrath, because it is written, Vengeance belongs to me; I will repay, says the Lord. But
If your enemy is hungry, feed him.
If he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
For in so doing
you will be heaping fiery coals on his head. Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good."

Finally, I leave you with the words of St. Augustine.

"[L]et me ask of my reader, wherever, alike with myself, he is certain, there to go on with me; wherever, alike with myself, he hesitates, there to join with me in inquiring; wherever he recognizes himself to be in error, there to return to me; wherever he recognizes me to be so, there to call me back: so that we may enter together upon the path of charity, and advance towards Him of whom it is said, "Seek His face evermore.""

The idea of unity is great and is more applicable to those of like mind, who are willing to be corrected by the Lord. It seems the majority will always be wandering sheep, and a few leaders subject to control issues, self-glorication etc. But it is important to establish Christ as the center, over leadership, organization, and me, the individual.

As for the 5 fold ministry, I don't think they exist as such anymore. The Apostles were the foundation in history for the Church, and the foundation was finished with the Scriptures a long time ago. But there are equivalent leaders today who preside over large churches, denominations, and evangelical movements.

The same with prophets. The early prophets led in the establishing of the Church. Today's prophets are moving the Church in the direction God is leading us in. We still have evangelists, pastors, and teachers, as well as people known for their prayers for miracles.

So the Church is here. What we don't have is unity among the denominations because some have gone far to the Left theologically, and others have wandered into fanatacism or self-glorification. But the Lord can work with those of us who keep humble and open to the Lord's instruction. Thank you.

 

[bling]

Sever persecution tends to weed out the hypocrites, determine what is really worth dying over, unit Christians over the important stuff and have only committed Christians hanging in there.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The problem with unity is someone has to compromise. Christ wants us unified, but unified in His Truth. It's why Jesus said He came not to bring peace but a sword. Mat 10:34

We can never comprise God's Truth in scripture for sake of unity.

Jesus is the Truth John 14:6
His Word is the Truth John 17:17
All His commandments are Truth Psa 119:151

Only God's Truth sets us free. John 8:32 Unfortunately those who wants all churches unified will be compromising God's Truth.

 

[All Becomes New]

Only God's Truth sets us free. John 8:32 Unfortunately those who wants all churches unified will be compromising God's Truth.

Where did I say that? I think you have misunderstood my post. Unity among diversity is what I am after.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Where did I say that? I think you have misunderstood my post. Unity among diversity is what I am after.

But in order for unification someone has to compromise.

 

[All Becomes New]

But in order for unification someone has to compromise.

Why?


The Church will be united before Christ comes back. Whether that is by compromise or not, IDK. I just know it will happen at some point.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Why?


The Church will be united before Christ comes back. Whether that is by compromise or not, IDK. I just know it will happen at some point.

Christ Church will never compromise on Truth. Its the only way we are sanctified by Truth through God Eze 20:12

Jesus is the Truth John 14:6
His Word is the Truth John 17:17
All His commandments are Truth Psa 119:151

The movement to have one church is based on compromise which is not coming from Christ. Christ Church is a remnant Rev 12:17KJV will never be the majority

 

[All Becomes New]

Christ Church will never compromise on Truth. Its the only way we are sanctified by Truth through God Eze 20:12

Jesus is the Truth John 14:6
His Word is the Truth John 17:17
All His commandments are Truth Psa 119:151

Why do I feel like you don't actually want unity, but you want your tradition to continue? I agree that Truth is paramount. And I think you have to put Truth above your own personal tradition of Christianity. For all I know, Christians will compromise toward Truth, meaning, Christianity gets more Truthful over time and as such gets more unified over time.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Why do I feel like you don't actually want unity, but you want your tradition to continue? I agree that Truth is paramount. And I think you have to put Truth above your own personal tradition of Christianity. For all I know, Christians will compromise toward Truth, meaning, Christianity gets more Truthful over time and as such gets more unity over time.

I'm not quoting my tradition, I only quoted scripture. People want to rely on their version of truth, but that's the problem, God does not compromise on His Truth. We either accept His Truth, or we are following another. There is no compromise, one is just kidding themselves if thinking one worldwide united church compromising Truth is what God wants. Its actually want we are warned about in the last days. 2 Timothy 4:3

2 Thes 2:10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Christ wants us to stand firm on Truth

1 Thess 2:13 But we are [f]bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth

But its God Truth, not ours.

Jesus is the Truth John 14:6
His Word is the Truth John 17:17
All His commandments are Truth Psa 119:151

 

[All Becomes New]

I'm not quoting my tradition, I only quoted scripture. People want to rely on their version of truth, but that's the problem, God does not compromise on His Truth. We either accept His Truth, or we are following another. There is no compromise.

Would you give up your tradition of Christianity if it was not True?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Would you give up your tradition of Christianity if it was not True?

I have no idea what you are referring to. Not all traditions are bad, but Jesus in His own Words said when we keep them over obeying the commandments of God, are hearts are far from Him. All of God's commandments are His Truth Psa 119:151 so we can't compromise. Sadly, most churches already compromised on God's Truth, following popular traditions over obeying God's commandments. Jesus told us plainly those who do this in teaching and following end up in a ditch, which is off the narrow path.

Mat 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; (Found in the Ten Commandments Exo 20:12) and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”

12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”

13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

There will probably be a world movement to comprise God's Truth, but it won't be coming from Christ. Christ Church is a remnant and they keep God's commandments Rev 12:17 Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14- His version because no one has the Authority over God. Whoever we obey is who we serve Rom 6:16 We need to worship God in both Truth and spirit John 4:23-24

 

[All Becomes New]

I have no idea what you are referring to. Not all traditions are bad, but Jesus in His own Words said when we keep them over obeying the commandments of God, are hearts are far from Him. All of God's commandments are His Truth Psa 119:151 so we can't compromise. Sadly, most churches already compromised on God's Truth, following popular traditions over obeying God's commandments. Jesus told us plainly those who do this in teaching and following end up in a ditch, which is off the narrow path.

Mat 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; (Found in the Ten Commandments Exo 20:12) and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”

12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”

13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

There will probably be a world movement to comprise God's Truth, but it won't be coming from Christ. Christ Church is a remnant and they keep God's commandments Rev 12:17 Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14- His version because no one has the Authority over God. Whoever we obey is who we serve Rom 6:16 We need to worship God in both Truth and spirit John 4:23-24

That is the wrong answer. The correct answer is "Yes."

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Achieving unity of faith is easy, become one with the Church that Jesus is building and has been building from the beginning; the Church that has been present from the first century until now in unbroken succession from the apostles.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That is the wrong answer. The correct answer is "Yes."

God's Word is never wrong, I quoted Jesus, not me. Like I said not everyone is interested in biblical Truth, which is why there will never be one united church for everyone on this earth, that will only happen once Jesus comes. Not everyone is willing to compromise God's Truth. The majority are fine coming together and compromising for the sake of unity, but not everyone.