• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

God gives us the power to choose

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
26,198
8,495
Dallas
✟1,139,887.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I have already given you my answer but it will never suffice for you because you refuse to interpret Scripture using Scripture and have somehow come to the conclusion that salvation belongs to men rather than God and it seems that you think Scripture is not inspired, inerrant and infallible, so it is no wonder that you are currently judicially blinded to its truth.
No you didn’t explain the passage you didn’t explain any portion of the passage. You quoted verses about other passages and didn’t say anything at all about the passage I quoted. You don’t want to explain the passage because you know that any explanation you give will either contradict your theology or what was specifically written in the passage. That’s why you’re avoiding it. I didn’t avoid any of your verses, all of my explanations were specific to the actual passage.
 
Upvote 0

maxamir

Active Member
Apr 1, 2023
188
71
QLD
✟32,394.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No you didn’t explain the passage you didn’t explain any portion of the passage. You quoted verses about other passages and didn’t say anything at all about the passage I quoted. You don’t want to explain the passage because you know that any explanation you give will either contradict your theology or what was specifically written in the passage. That’s why you’re avoiding it. I didn’t avoid any of your verses, all of my explanations were specific to the actual passage.
1725927120981.jpeg
 
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
26,198
8,495
Dallas
✟1,139,887.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
everyone has faith in something and sadly for most people it is not the truth.
The Pharisees “had faithed” them to choose Barabas instead of Jesus? The word means to persuade or convince, the way you’re trying to use it doesn’t make any sense in the passage.
 
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
26,198
8,495
Dallas
✟1,139,887.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I have already given you my answer but it will never suffice for you because you refuse to interpret Scripture using Scripture and have somehow come to the conclusion that salvation belongs to men rather than God and it seems that you think Scripture is not inspired, inerrant and infallible, so it is no wonder that you are currently judicially blinded to its truth.
So you’re still not going to explain James 5:19-20? If there’s no contradictions between the scriptures and your theology then there should be no problem explaining the passage. You see the problem but you’re just not willing acknowledge it.
 
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
26,198
8,495
Dallas
✟1,139,887.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Then why can’t you just explain the passage? There’s nothing unclear about James 5:19-20, it’s a plainly written passage.

“My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

What part of these two sentences is unclear? The only thing that makes them unclear to you is that it is contradictory to your theology. The passage itself is not written unclearly.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

maxamir

Active Member
Apr 1, 2023
188
71
QLD
✟32,394.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Then why can’t you just explain the passage? There’s nothing unclear about James 5:19-20, it’s a plainly written passage.

“My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

What part of these two sentences is unclear? The only thing that makes them unclear to you is that it is contradictory to your theology. The passage itself is not written unclearly.
you are doing exactly what cults do when they take one verse and build a doctrine upon it. I have consistently told you that if a passage seems to contradict another passage then the contradiction is not in Scripture but in you and you will only discover this when you humble yourself, submit to God's Word as being inspired, inerrant and infallible and rightly divide the Word of God by comparing what is said in context with every other verses that speaks to that issue and so far you have failed to do so and continue to harass me because you refuse to believe that salvation is of and belongs to the Lord (Jon 2:9, Psa 3:8).


If you have nothing else to contribute to this discussion and continue to do what you are doing then I will have no alternative than to block you.

1726026566779.jpeg
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Dan1988
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
26,198
8,495
Dallas
✟1,139,887.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
you are doing exactly what cults do when they take one verse and build a doctrine upon it. I have consistently told you that if a passage seems to contradict another passage then the contradiction is not in Scripture but in you and you will only discover this when you humble yourself, submit to God's Word as being inspired, inerrant and infallible and rightly divide the Word of God by comparing what is said in context with every other verses that speaks to that issue and so far you have failed to do so and continue to harass me because you refuse to believe that salvation is of and belongs to the Lord (Jon 2:9, Psa 3:8).


If you have nothing else to contribute to this discussion and continue to do what you are doing then I will have no alternative than to block you.

View attachment 354417
Of course salvation is of the Lord, it’s the only way we could ever be atoned of our sin. And I absolutely agree that there are no contradictions in scripture and if there appears to be any contradictions then it is the interpretation that is in error not the scriptures. That’s precisely why I explained every single verse you provided and it’s also precisely why you won’t explain your interpretation of James 5:19-20. You and I both know the same thing, we both know that there’s a problem with interpreting James 5:19-20 in such a way that doesn’t contradict eternal security because of the context of the passage. That’s why I keep trying to get you to interpret the passage so I can point out the error in your interpretation and you know that you can’t interpret it without that happening which is why you repeatedly refuse to provide your interpretation. James 5:19-20 isn’t the only passage that refutes eternal security. There’s also Galatians 5:4, 2 Timothy 2:12, John 15:1-7, Romans 11:17-21. I haven’t presented these because I try not to bog down the discussion with too many passages at once. I think it’s much better to focus on one or two at a time. What I see in my discussions about these verses is that either people ignore the context of the passage and what I mean by that is they will often say they were never actually saved, they only thought they were or pretended to be which is why I quote James 5 because it’s undeniable that James is speaking about people who are saved. That’s the only way their soul can be saved is if they turn BACK to the truth as James said. If they were never true believers, turning BACK would not result in salvation because they would’ve never believed the truth in the first place. I’m just trying to help people see this because I think most overlook this important detail. I’m not basing my doctrines on one verse there are several verses that indicate that believers can lose their salvation I’m just quoting one of them.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

maxamir

Active Member
Apr 1, 2023
188
71
QLD
✟32,394.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Of course salvation is of the Lord, it’s the only way we could ever be atoned of our sin. And I absolutely agree that there are no contradictions in scripture and if there appears to be any contradictions then it is the interpretation that is in error not the scriptures. That’s precisely why I explained every single verse you provided and it’s also precisely why you won’t explain your interpretation of James 5:19-20. You and I both know the same thing, we both know that there’s a problem with interpreting James 5:19-20 in such a way that doesn’t contradict eternal security because of the context of the passage. That’s why I keep trying to get you to interpret the passage so I can point out the error in your interpretation and you know that you can’t interpret it without that happening which is why you repeatedly refuse to provide your interpretation. James 5:19-20 isn’t the only passage that refutes eternal security. There’s also Galatians 5:4, 2 Timothy 2:12, John 15:1-7, Romans 11:17-21. I haven’t presented these because I try not to bog down the discussion with too many passages at once. I think it’s much better to focus on one or two at a time. What I see in my discussions about these verses is that either people ignore the context of the passage and what I mean by that is they will often say they were never actually saved, they only thought they were or pretended to be which is why I quote James 5 because it’s undeniable that James is speaking about people who are saved. That’s the only way their soul can be saved is if they turn BACK to the truth as James said. If they were never true believers, turning BACK would not result in salvation because they would’ve never believed the truth in the first place. I’m just trying to help people see this because I think most overlook this important detail. I’m not basing my doctrines on one verse there are several verses that indicate that believers can lose their salvation I’m just quoting one of them.
and I have already answered you this and given you several similar verses exhorting endurance from Hebrews which speak to the same thing. Christian are to exhort and correct those in the body who are in error lest they find out that they were never part of the body.
 
Upvote 0

Jo555

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2024
1,027
251
59
Daytona
✟32,831.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Believe i replied here already and keep finding myself at the end so can't read original post, but I'll go by title and say, Yes, God gives us the power to choose. The problem with fallen man is he gravitates to the fallen nature. Pulled that way.

So we have the power to choose, but not well due to our fallen desires / lust.

When we receive Him his Spirit empowers us by the love of God.

Just because we have a choice doesn't mean we'll choose well. The choice just shows us what we love and desire more. As i like to say, the heart doesn't choose. The heart is won over.
 
Upvote 0

Jo555

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2024
1,027
251
59
Daytona
✟32,831.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Believe i replied here already and keep finding myself at the end so can't read original post, but I'll go by title and say, Yes, God gives us the power to choose. The problem with fallen man is he gravitates to the fallen nature. Pulled that way.

So we have the power to choose, but not well due to our fallen desires / lust.

When we receive Him his Spirit empowers us by the love of God.

Just because we have a choice doesn't mean we'll choose well. The choice just shows us what we love and desire more. As i like to say, the heart doesn't choose. The heart is won over.
Hi again. Think this was one of the first threads I was involved in when I joined CF. I don't think I have posted this before, but several years I began exploring this topic and wrote a piece on it I would like to share.


And even as we come into the faith we can still find ourselves gravitating towards our old nature for our souls, which I'll describe as our mind, will, and emotions, are still in the process of being transformed. In those cases when we find ourselves gravitating toward the carnal nature, our faith needs to rise up knowing that He has something better for us as we deny the flesh. To heed carnality is a lack of faith and signals that we still need to grow in Him. I say that with no condemnation for his blood has us covered as we grow in Him and his love. Just saying, these things can be a decent indicator of where we are at in our growth, and where we could use improvement.

And the goal is to grow so in love with Him that the call from the carnal nature no longer holds any appeal for us.

Thanks and be blessed!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

HarleyER

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2024
903
341
74
Toano
✟51,915.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
We have many choices we might make. Almost all of us do not make most of those choices we are capable of. Cultural conditioning has a lot to do with that.

Matthew 15:18

But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.
 
Upvote 0

FredVB

Regular Member
Mar 11, 2010
5,129
1,041
America
Visit site
✟345,234.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Matthew 15:18
But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.

If you have the heart of the fallen man you will have what defiles you. With being a new creation in the new covenant, which is through Christ, there is a new heart, which submits to commandments from God, that we will be softened and will live accordingly from the heart. Many many forsake their conscience, for any excuse. The conscience is yet given to us by God, there are such yet not as many who will live in ways responsive to the conscience, which will give direction to us toward God and the ways of God for us, and in Christ we can have fruits of the Spirit growing in us, such will show.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0