God gives us the power to choose

[Dan1988]

He didn’t say He was talking about anyone else He repeatedly used the word “YOU” over and over and over in those 7 verses.

You forgot to consider the fact that billions of people know what Jesus said to those in the upper room and that's what Jesus wanted. He wanted everything He said there to be recorded for all humanity to hear, it is good news to the elect and it's worst news the reprobate will ever hear.

 

[Dan1988]

You should just concentrate on interpreting John 15:1-7 in a way that it doesn’t contradict eternal security. My theology doesn’t contradict any scriptures. I’ll explain any verse you quote. You can’t explain one passage I quote without contradicting the context.

I have already destroyed you John 15:1-7 verses with a more powerful scripture,. My scripture completely obliterates yours, and exposes it as being weak and insignificant. Just like the EOC you follow.

John 10:28-30
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My Father are one.”

I promise I'll always find scriptures to destroy any scriptures you care to use to defend your false religion. My scriptures are vastly superior to yours and they always destroy yours.

 

[David Lamb]

I have already destroyed you John 15:1-7 verses with a more powerful scripture,. My scripture completely obliterates yours, and exposes it as being weak and insignificant. Just like the EOC you follow.

John 10:28-30
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My Father are one.”

I promise I'll always find scriptures to destroy any scriptures you care to use to defend your false religion. My scriptures are vastly superior to yours and they always destroy yours.

Why do you want to destroy parts of the bible? Anyway, John 10:28-30 in no way destroys John 15:1-7.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I have already destroyed you John 15:1-7 verses with a more powerful scripture,. My scripture completely obliterates yours, and exposes it as being weak and insignificant. Just like the EOC you follow.

Here you go again with that ridiculously absurd statement that one verse destroys another. Now you’re running away from the argument because you can’t interpret John 15:1-7 in a way that doesn’t contradict eternal security. You failed just like I did. You just don’t have the decency to admit it. This is why you can’t understand the Bible, because whenever you’re faced with verses that contradict your theology you run from them. You ignore them as if they are less important than the verses that appear to support your theology. That’s why your theology only lines up with some passages and not all passages because you refuse to admit when you’re wrong.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I have already destroyed you John 15:1-7 verses with a more powerful scripture,. My scripture completely obliterates yours, and exposes it as being weak and insignificant. Just like the EOC you follow.

John 10:28-30
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My Father are one.”

I promise I'll always find scriptures to destroy any scriptures you care to use to defend your false religion. My scriptures are vastly superior to yours and they always destroy yours.

We’re doing John 10:28-29 again? I already explained this passage. If I say no one can snatch this frog from my hand that means no third party can take it from my hand. I never said the frog can’t leap from my hand nor have I said that I can’t throw the frog from my hand.

Ok my turn, Paul wrote to Timothy and told him “if we endure with Him we will reign with Him, if we DENY HIM, HE WILL DENY US. 1 Timothy 2:12.

 

[BNR32FAN]

My scripture completely obliterates yours, and exposes it as being weak and insignificant.

Weak and insignificant. That right there sums up your entire theology in one sentence. You think the words Jesus spoke to His 11 faithful apostles in the upper room on the night He was arrested are weak and insignificant. I can’t even begin to find the words to describe how blasphemous that statement is. Jesus telling His faithful 11 apostles how important it is for them to remain in Him is weak and insignificant. Got it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Why do you want to destroy parts of the bible? Anyway, John 10:28-30 in no way destroys John 15:1-7.

Insane isn’t it?

 

[Valletta]

WHEN did men begin to dress up in big fancy robes and have men kiss rings.
Lets talk about that .

Christians have different practices, and all should avoid mocking one another's religious practices. Remember Jesus was mocked on the cross.
Spend some time reading a whole chapter of the Bible at one sitting if possible. The Apostle Paul in particular. Also there is a great place to pray to God for discernment, which I recommend you do first, that you can have very much to yourself in the off season. It is where Paul lived for months in Malta. It is underground in Rabat just a half mile from the gates of Mdina.

1 Cor 16:20 The churches of Asia send greetings. Aq′uila and Prisca, together with the church in their house, send you hearty greetings in the Lord. 20 All the brethren send greetings. Greet one another with a holy kiss. RSVCE

2 Cor 13:11-13 Finally, brethren, farewell. Mend your ways, heed my appeal, agree with one another, live in peace, and the God of love and peace will be with you. 12 Greet one another with a holy kiss. 13 All the saints greet you. RSVCE

As to the robes of the High Priest, check out Exodus 28 after you read Paul.

You don't have to follow the Word of God in regard to a kiss or anything else but please have respect for those who do.

 

[Dan1988]

Why do you want to destroy parts of the bible? Anyway, John 10:28-30 in no way destroys John 15:1-7.

I'm actually not trying to destroy any parts of the bible. My intention is to destroy the other members false interpretation of those verses.
I used that expression, because he thinks some verses of the bible have a small amount of truth, while other have more truth. So I have to speak in his language and use his methodology to challenge his false doctrine.

 

[Dan1988]

Here you go again with that ridiculously absurd statement that one verse destroys another. Now you’re running away from the argument because you can’t interpret John 15:1-7 in a way that doesn’t contradict eternal security. You failed just like I did. You just don’t have the decency to admit it. This is why you can’t understand the Bible, because whenever you’re faced with verses that contradict your theology you run from them. You ignore them as if they are less important than the verses that appear to support your theology. That’s why your theology only lines up with some passages and not all passages because you refuse to admit when you’re wrong.

I'm using your logic to expose your false doctrine and you don't like it. You have never shown a single verse that would contradict eternal security. John 15:1-7 certainly doesn't contradict it, but your false interpretation of those verses does contradict the bible doctrine of eternal security.

So the problem is not with the scripture, but it is with your inability to understand what they are saying. You're obviously don't have any authority to interpret the bible, because it's obvious by the way you speak that you've never had any formal training , so you're speaking out of ignorance and you sound very foolish at my end.

I would urge you to join a beginners bible class, and start with the basics. It's obvious that you are clueless and not equipped to comment on the subject, because your theology and doctrine are fundamentally flawed. They are incoherent and contradictory and blasphemous among other tings.

i have already corrected you many times, but the bible says "the fool hates you for correcting him, but the wise man loves you for it", so yeah!!!

 

[Dan1988]

Weak and insignificant. That right there sums up your entire theology in one sentence. You think the words Jesus spoke to His 11 faithful apostles in the upper room on the night He was arrested are weak and insignificant. I can’t even begin to find the words to describe how blasphemous that statement is. Jesus telling His faithful 11 apostles how important it is for them to remain in Him is weak and insignificant. Got it.

Nothing wrong with the scripture, but everything is wrong with your blasphemous abuse in twisting it to make it say something completely different, in an attempt to force it to fit your false doctrine.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I'm using your logic to expose your false doctrine and you don't like it. You have never shown a single verse that would contradict eternal security. John 15:1-7 certainly doesn't contradict it, but your false interpretation of those verses does contradict the bible doctrine of eternal security.

You’re the one who has said 3 times that your passages of scripture destroy my passages. I’ve never made such a ridiculous statement in my life so don’t try to blame your ridiculousness on me.

You say John 15:1-7 doesn’t contradict eternal security and twice you tried to interpret it and both times you failed because you didn’t even know who Jesus was speaking to. In your first attempt you said He was speaking to dead people. His 11 faithful apostles were not dead, they were believers who had been following Him for 3 years already. Jesus called them His friends, they had a relationship with Christ. Jesus said that they are not of this world which means they were spiritually appraised. Then on your second attempt you tried to say that Judas was present with them and that’s who He was referring to but Judas had left the group two chapters before Jesus gave this message.

So you failed to interpret John 15 twice and despite my asking you to try again you refuse to. You rebuked and chastised me for failing to interpret it in a way that doesn’t contradict eternal security and now you can’t do it yourself. It’s not as easy as you thought it was is it?

Now you’re just going to pretend that it doesn’t support eternal security which you already admitted that it does speak about condemnation which is why you automatically associated it with “dead people” in your first attempt to interpret the passage.

And now that we’ve established that only Jesus’ 11 faithful apostles were present during that message and the fact that Jesus is saying “YOU” over and over, you all the sudden don’t want to try to interpret anymore? Why not? If you’re confident that it doesn’t refute eternal security then you should be willing and able to explain how it doesn’t contradict eternal security.

Just making an unsupported claim that it doesn’t contradict eternal security then offering no explanation whatsoever doesn’t prove anything. If anything it only proves my point that you can’t interpret it in a way that doesn’t contradict eternal security and you’re just unwilling to admit it. If I were you I’d keep trying until I either explained how to interpret it to where it doesn’t contradict eternal security or until I finally came to the realization that it can’t be interpreted in a way that doesn’t contradict eternal security because if you leave it how it is right now you haven’t proven or learned anything. At this point you haven’t done anything at all except make empty statements with no evidence to support them.

 

[Dan1988]

You’re the one who has said 3 times that your passages of scripture destroy my passages. I’ve never made such a ridiculous statement in my life so don’t try to blame your ridiculousness on me.

You say John 15:1-7 doesn’t contradict eternal security and twice you tried to interpret it and both times you failed because you didn’t even know who Jesus was speaking to. In your first attempt you said He was speaking to dead people. His 11 faithful apostles were not dead, they were believers who had been following Him for 3 years already. Jesus called them His friends, they had a relationship with Christ. Jesus said that they are not of this world which means they were spiritually appraised. Then on your second attempt you tried to say that Judas was present with them and that’s who He was referring to but Judas had left the group two chapters before Jesus gave this message.

So you failed to interpret John 15 twice and despite my asking you to try again you refuse to. You rebuked and chastised me for failing to interpret it in a way that doesn’t contradict eternal security and now you can’t do it yourself. It’s not as easy as you thought it was is it?

Now you’re just going to pretend that it doesn’t support eternal security which you already admitted that it does speak about condemnation which is why you automatically associated it with “dead people” in your first attempt to interpret the passage.

And now that we’ve established that only Jesus’ 11 faithful apostles were present during that message and the fact that Jesus is saying “YOU” over and over, you all the sudden don’t want to try to interpret anymore? Why not? If you’re confident that it doesn’t refute eternal security then you should be willing and able to explain how it doesn’t contradict eternal security.

Just making an unsupported claim that it doesn’t contradict eternal security then offering no explanation whatsoever doesn’t prove anything. If anything it only proves my point that you can’t interpret it in a way that doesn’t contradict eternal security and you’re just unwilling to admit it. If I were you I’d keep trying until I either explained how to interpret it to where it doesn’t contradict eternal security or until I finally came to the realization that it can’t be interpreted in a way that doesn’t contradict eternal security because if you leave it how it is right now you haven’t proven or learned anything. At this point you haven’t done anything at all except make empty statements with no evidence to support them.

You're still stumbling around and falling over parables, because you take them literally. According to your logic, Satan is a born again Christian. Jesus called Peter Satan, so much for your theory that the 11 were not dead. The all abandoned Him, because they were dead.

Anyway the point is, you don't have the gift of discernment, so you will never be able to understand Gods Word. You always take every verse out of it's intended context and make God to be an evil monster.

The fact that you don't have the gift of discernment, means that your not equipped or qualified to decide who has the correct interpretation. You just go by your feelings and emotions, and they clearly expose your false doctrine. So, no amount of evidence will make a blind man like you see the truth. It is currently hidden from you, and unless God opens your eyes, you will remain blind forever.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Nothing wrong with the scripture, but everything is wrong with your blasphemous abuse in twisting it to make it say something completely different, in an attempt to force it to fit your false doctrine.

Then please by all means explain it to me the way you interpret it. That’s all I’ve been asking the whole time. Only don’t contradict the context. That’s all I’m asking.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You're still stumbling around and falling over parables, because you take them literally. According to your logic, Satan is a born again Christian. Jesus called Peter Satan, so much for your theory that the 11 were not dead. The all abandoned Him, because they were dead.

Anyway the point is, you don't have the gift of discernment, so you will never be able to understand Gods Word. You always take every verse out of it's intended context and make God to be an evil monster.

The fact that you don't have the gift of discernment, means that you’re not equipped or qualified to decide who has the correct interpretation. You just go by your feelings and emotions, and they clearly expose your false doctrine. So, no amount of evidence will make a blind man like you see the truth. It is currently hidden from you, and unless God opens your eyes, you will remain blind forever.

You’re quoting Matthew 16 which was about 2 years into Jesus’ ministry, the first time Jesus revealed that He was going to suffer and die and the apostles still didn’t know why He was going to die because it wasn’t revealed to them yet.

So you think Peter was satan the night Jesus was arrested? Well this is what Jesus had to say to The Father about Peter and the rest of the 11 apostles that very night when He spoke to them in John 15.

““I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours; and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them. I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are. While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17‬:‭6‬-‭12‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Does it sound like Jesus thinks Peter is satan here?

This would be your third failed attempt. Care to try again?

 

[Dan1988]

Then please by all means explain it to me the way you interpret it. That’s all I’ve been asking the whole time. Only don’t contradict the context. That’s all I’m asking.

Asking me to explain my interpretation, without contradicting the context is blackmail. By making that statement, your claiming to know what the true context is, but you haven't considered the countless different interpretations and contexts, which Christians understand those scriptures.

It's pretty arrogant to ask me to justify my understanding of those verses, while you have appointed yourself as the final authority when it comes to determining the meaning of those verses. We obviously view them through radically different theological lenses. So I actually lose before I start in your cruel game, because you don't come to the table to discuss the various theological views. You have come to dictate your terms and you set the rules and your happy to move the goal posts when you're errors are exposed.

I'm happy to discuss why the 45,000 different Christian Denominations, don't agree with each other views. We know that all of the Denominations hold to one of the two gospel interpretations namely Calvinism and Arminianism, they all have their unique version of one of these two interpretations.
But if you boil it down every single one of them must decide if a man is saved by making a choice to believe and confirming that he is genuine by doing good works, that's the Arminian view, the Calvinist view is God chose His elect by His grace and He gives us the the faith to believe, so it's all of God and man contributes precisely nothing to his salvation.

What we should be discussing is which of the two gospel interpretations is biblically correct and provide scriptures to confirm it. You use the parable Jesus gave the 11 to base your theology on, I notice you won't touch those direct language verses which confirm that eternal security is a sound bible doctrine. You can make the parables say all kinds of things, so that's why people who have a foundation built on sand always use them.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Asking me to explain my interpretation, without contradicting the context is blackmail. By making that statement, your claiming to know what the true context is, but you haven't considered the countless different interpretations and contexts, which Christians understand those scriptures.

It's pretty arrogant to ask me to justify my understanding of those verses, while you have appointed yourself as the final authority when it comes to determining the meaning of those verses. We obviously view them through radically different theological lenses. So I actually lose before I start in your cruel game, because you don't come to the table to discuss the various theological views. You have come to dictate your terms and you set the rules and your happy to move the goal posts when you're errors are exposed.

I'm happy to discuss why the 45,000 different Christian Denominations, don't agree with each other views. We know that all of the Denominations hold to one of the two gospel interpretations namely Calvinism and Arminianism, they all have their unique version of one of these two interpretations.
But if you boil it down every single one of them must decide if a man is saved by making a choice to believe and confirming that he is genuine by doing good works, that's the Arminian view, the Calvinist view is God chose His elect by His grace and He gives us the the faith to believe, so it's all of God and man contributes precisely nothing to his salvation.

What we should be discussing is which of the two gospel interpretations is biblically correct and provide scriptures to confirm it. You use the parable Jesus gave the 11 to base your theology on, I notice you won't touch those direct language verses which confirm that eternal security is a sound bible doctrine. You can make the parables say all kinds of things, so that's why people who have a foundation built on sand always use them.

You tried three times now and none of your explanations were even plausible.

1 your first explanation was that Jesus was speaking to dead people. The way Jesus spoke to The Father about them in chapter 17 doesn’t sound like dead people. Dead people don’t believe in Christ.

““I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17‬:‭6‬-‭8‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Answer me this question. Does this sound like Jesus is describing dead people?

2 your second explanation was that Jesus was talking about Judas. Jesus kept saying YOU YOU YOU YOU the whole passage. Judas wasn’t even there. When somebody says the word YOU that doesn’t mean they’re talking about somebody THAT IS NOT EVEN PRESENT. The word YOU doesn’t mean they, them, him, or anybody else, it means YOU the one standing right in front of me.

“So after receiving the morsel he went out immediately; and it was night. Therefore when he had gone out, Jesus *said, “Now is the Son of Man glorified, and God is glorified in Him;”
‭‭John‬ ‭13‬:‭30‬-‭31‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Now did Judas leave in chapter 13 or not?

3 your last explanation was that Peter was satan which brings us right back to John 17.

““I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17‬:‭6‬-‭8‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Does this sound like Jesus is describing Peter as satan?

So yes I refuted all three of your explanations BECAUSE THEY DONT MAKE ANY SENSE. They don’t coincide with what the scriptures tell us that took place at that time. Your talking about something Jesus said to Peter a year ago, not something He said to him that night.

Why can’t you see your own errors? It’s impossible that you don’t see it. I’ve put the evidence right in front of you by quoting the scriptures, and still you refuse to admit it.

 

[Dan1988]

You’re quoting Matthew 16 which was about 2 years into Jesus’ ministry, the first time Jesus revealed that He was going to suffer and die and the apostles still didn’t know why He was going to die because it wasn’t revealed to them yet.

So you think Peter was satan the night Jesus was arrested? Well this is what Jesus had to say to The Father about Peter and the rest of the 11 apostles that very night when He spoke to them in John 15.

““I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours; and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them. I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are. While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17‬:‭6‬-‭12‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Does it sound like Jesus thinks Peter is satan here?

This would be your third failed attempt. Care to try again?

You keep forcing me to choose between you and Jesus, because one of you is a liar. Now you have how your true colors, by blatantly denying what Jesus said. You say Jesus didn't call Peter Satan and you tried to muddy the water by claiming that He called him Satan before he became a Christian.

The truth destroys your lies and exposes you as a child of the Devil, because he was a liar and murderer from the start. I don't know what you get out of accusing Jesus of telling lies, but I can only imagine it must be out of obedience to your father. My bible has it in black and white and you deny it.

Now that I have identified your motive for accusing Jesus of telling lies, I will prove that Peter was still Satan when Christ was arrested and led away to be crucified. Peter accused Jesus of being a criminal and he said he had nothing to do with that criminal. So that confirms that Peter was still Satan (accuser) right up to Christs execution.

33 Peter answered and said to Him, “Even if all are made to stumble because of You, I will never be made to stumble.”

34 Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you that this night, before the rooster crows, you will deny Me three times.”

See Peter was a liar, he made a profession of faith, just as you have done, but then he stabbed Jesus at the first opportunity just as you are doing by calling Him a liar. The Devil promises to be our friend then he stabs us in the back, can you see why Jesus used to call Peter "Satan", it's because Peter was dead in his sin and he was a servant of Satan. If Peter was a child of God, then Jesus wouldn't call him Satan. It clear and simple but you can't handle the truth.

This is the third time I have exposed your true identity.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You keep forcing me to choose between you and Jesus, because one of you is a liar. Now you have how your true colors, by blatantly denying what Jesus said. You say Jesus didn't call Peter Satan and you tried to muddy the water by claiming that He called him Satan before he became a Christian.

Im the liar? I never said that Jesus didn’t call Peter satan because it’s specifically says that He did in Matthew 16:23. You’re the one telling lies because I never said any such thing and I’ll quote my entire post below to show everyone exactly who the liar is.

You’re quoting Matthew 16 which was about 2 years into Jesus’ ministry, the first time Jesus revealed that He was going to suffer and die and the apostles still didn’t know why He was going to die because it wasn’t revealed to them yet.

So you think Peter was satan the night Jesus was arrested? Well this is what Jesus had to say to The Father about Peter and the rest of the 11 apostles that very night when He spoke to them in John 15.

““I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours; and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them. I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are. While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17‬:‭6‬-‭12‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Does it sound like Jesus thinks Peter is satan here?

This would be your third failed attempt. Care to try again?

 

[maxamir]

Then interpret James 5:19-20

true love warns. Christians are exhorted to correct and where necessary to rebuke those in error as I have done to you.

No one can save anyone. It is God who saves and He uses His word to do so in those who reflect His love by proclaiming His truth.