Buddhist monks - love your enemies

[christian-surfer]

Jesus said to love your enemies, something that often seemed hard and yet when China invaded Tibet that is what some of the Buddhists monks did. This is one reason I find it hard to subscribe to different sectarian views, although i understand that such views are common everywhere in one way or another

‘Compassion for My Torturer’: A Meeting With Palden Gyatso

Tibetan Buddhist monk, Palden Gyatso, spent 33 years imprisoned by the Chinese and drew deep on his Buddhist practice to survive his brutal treatment. He escaped to the West to tell his story, and …

www.wiseattention.org

With Palden, however, there is a Buddhist twist. Perhaps the most striking aspect of the book is his lack of resentment towards his tormentors. How had he been able to avoid hating the Chinese? After Tsering had translated my question, Palden shook his head vigorously. I had not understood.‘It is not that I was without hatred. Especially when I was being tortured by my guards, I had immense hatred against them because I was being hurt. But, as a religious person, after the event I could reflect on what had happened, and I could see that those who inflicted torture did so out of their own ignorance. As a religious person I have to sit back and ask myself, what is all this? Buddhist teachings say, don’t let your calm be disturbed and do not respond to anger with anger.’

 

[Lukaris]

This, I think, falls into what St. Paul says in Romans 2:6-16 and probably the Lord’s Beatitudes in Matthew 5:1-12 ( except for the final one which is of the persecuted Christian). There is no need of speculation of Buddhism here just that God must give light to all in some way and will determine the good from the bad ( John 5:22-30).

Still, the Gospel of salvation is to be preached with love, compassion and warning along the lines of John 3:16-21.

 

[FireDragon76]

Jesus said to love your enemies, something that often seemed hard and yet when China invaded Tibet that is what some of the Buddhists monks did. This is one reason I find it hard to subscribe to different sectarian views, although i understand that such views are common everywhere in one way or another

‘Compassion for My Torturer’: A Meeting With Palden Gyatso

Tibetan Buddhist monk, Palden Gyatso, spent 33 years imprisoned by the Chinese and drew deep on his Buddhist practice to survive his brutal treatment. He escaped to the West to tell his story, and …

www.wiseattention.org

With Palden, however, there is a Buddhist twist. Perhaps the most striking aspect of the book is his lack of resentment towards his tormentors. How had he been able to avoid hating the Chinese? After Tsering had translated my question, Palden shook his head vigorously. I had not understood.‘It is not that I was without hatred. Especially when I was being tortured by my guards, I had immense hatred against them because I was being hurt. But, as a religious person, after the event I could reflect on what had happened, and I could see that those who inflicted torture did so out of their own ignorance. As a religious person I have to sit back and ask myself, what is all this? Buddhist teachings say, don’t let your calm be disturbed and do not respond to anger with anger.’

Buddhists tend to focus less on assigning personal guilt or blame. Buddhism also teaches that people aren't fundamentally evil, but ignorant, so the evil they do is due to ignorance ultimately, and not an evil nature.

 

[timf]

Buddhists attempt to suppress the desires of our evil nature. The Stoics sought to replace it with virtue. Both attempt it through the power of the flesh, which is our evil nature. Only Christianity offers the possibility of transcending our evil nature by walking by the Spirit.

 

[Psalm 27]

Jesus said to love your enemies, something that often seemed hard and yet when China invaded Tibet that is what some of the Buddhists monks did. This is one reason I find it hard to subscribe to different sectarian views, although i understand that such views are common everywhere in one way or another

‘Compassion for My Torturer’: A Meeting With Palden Gyatso

Tibetan Buddhist monk, Palden Gyatso, spent 33 years imprisoned by the Chinese and drew deep on his Buddhist practice to survive his brutal treatment. He escaped to the West to tell his story, and …

www.wiseattention.org

With Palden, however, there is a Buddhist twist. Perhaps the most striking aspect of the book is his lack of resentment towards his tormentors. How had he been able to avoid hating the Chinese? After Tsering had translated my question, Palden shook his head vigorously. I had not understood.‘It is not that I was without hatred. Especially when I was being tortured by my guards, I had immense hatred against them because I was being hurt. But, as a religious person, after the event I could reflect on what had happened, and I could see that those who inflicted torture did so out of their own ignorance. As a religious person I have to sit back and ask myself, what is all this? Buddhist teachings say, don’t let your calm be disturbed and do not respond to anger with anger.’

There is a YouTube video that you might enjoy. Its about a young Buddhist monk, who got ill, died and went to hell.

John 14:6

 

[Astrid]

Buddhists attempt to suppress the desires of our evil nature. The Stoics sought to replace it with virtue. Both attempt it through the power of the flesh, which is our evil nature. Only Christianity offers the possibility of transcending our evil nature by walking by the Spirit.

Maybe for a start realize that evil
is in the mind, not meat.

And that while some are evil it’s not
universal human nature.

Not attempting the impossible ( love
enemy) for a nonsensical reason would
help maintain sanity.

 

[com7fy8]

There is no need of speculation of Buddhism here just that God must give light to all in some way

I can see that the way of Buddhists loving enemies might not be the way God's light would have them doing it.

For instance, if they love enemies partly in order to show they are righteous without needing Jesus . . . oh-oh.

And in case a Buddhist is doing it by one's own ability and self-discipline, this is not depending on God's grace through Jesus; so it would not be according to God's light and sufficiency.

Buddhism also teaches that people aren't fundamentally evil,

Whoever came up with that might have grown up in a temple, never seeing how even pretty young children can already be.

 

[FireDragon76]

I can see that the way of Buddhists loving enemies might not be the way God's light would have them doing it.

For instance, if they love enemies partly in order to show they are righteous without needing Jesus . . . oh-oh.

Buddhists believe kindness, even towards ones enemies, is part of cultivating a wholesome mental state that leads to enlightenment and Nirvana. "Righteousness" in the Christian sense has little to do with it.

Whoever came up with that might have grown up in a temple, never seeing how even pretty young children can already be.

Of course young children can be petty but that doesn't disprove Buddhism. Buddhism, like many religions, advocates moral instruction of children.

 

[Lukaris]

From comfy post #7:

can see that the way of Buddhists loving enemies might not be the way God's light would have them doing it.

For instance, if they love enemies partly in order to show they are righteous without needing Jesus . . . oh-oh.

And in case a Buddhist is doing it by one's own ability and self-discipline, this is not depending on God's grace through Jesus; so it would not be according to God's light and sufficiency



Reply:

I get what you are saying here and this is the peril of the non Christian. This is why I refer to Romans 2:6-16 in this case, the Lord will judge and I believe He will determine the good from the evil ( John 5:22-30).

Isaiah tells us in Isaiah 64:1-12 of dire judgment. Ezekiel, prophesying later, tells us of greater variable in judgment ( like in Ezekiel 18:1-32, Ezekiel 33:12-20). I believe Isaiah is stressing the danger faced by every living person on the grand scale. I believe Ezekiel tells us of the greater individual aspect of God’s judgement on us ( particularly Ezekiel 18:4-9, Psalm 15:1-15 also seems similar). This is where I believe the golden rule is so important in a spiritual aspect in that we should not judge, but know the Lord will judge and pray for anyone’s merciful judgement ( Matthew 7:1-12).

I believe St. Paul having the full revelation of salvation brings this all together in Romans 1, 2, & 3. Chapters 1 & 3 give us the fullness of judgment on humanity whereas chapter 2 tells us of the Lord’s judgment on the more individual level.

 

[com7fy8]

Buddhists believe kindness, even towards ones enemies, is part of cultivating a wholesome mental state that leads to enlightenment and Nirvana. "Righteousness" in the Christian sense has little to do with it.

Ok . . . thank you for your explanation, in any case.

What I consider is that it seems to me that what you are talking about means the Buddhist can start with one's own ability to cultivate kindness and then get the enlightenment and Nirvana which comes from practicing, if this is their correct word, kindness. One issue I have with this, Biblically, is how this in Buddhism can be self-dependent and starting from oneself. The Bible says,

"Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves; but our sufficiency is from God," (2 Corinthians 3:5)

So, with this I offer, that if we love the really right way as Christians, this comes from God changing us to become His way in loving.

So, we are not starting with our own selves and what we can do with ourselves. We need how God changes our character first so we become more and more how His love is. And this changes us to become like Jesus so we can so personally share with Christ our Lord and Savior, by being like His love is. So, this is very personal with God, sharing like this.

And, then, the "righteousness" has to do with how right Jesus is, and our becoming sharing with Him in His love where His righteousness is.

So, we need to begin with His righteousness of His love in us, changing us, so then is when we become capable of real loving better than how human effort is able have us become.

And . . . about children . . . they are not born with this goodness of God's love in their character. But yes they can be trained to be civil and treating others well. But deeply how is their character??

The character of God's love is righteous, meaning simply that it is right, I would explain. But, also, this is God's love and God is almighty in His immunity against howsoever evil would try to affect Him. And so, if we are in this love, we are sharing in our character with God so we share in His immunity almighty, including against any and all sorts of fear and fear's "torment" >

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment." (in 1 John 4:18)

Humans, to my knowledge, do not have almighty immunity against fear and its various sorts of torment. Having immune character is different than making one's own efforts to manage one's emotions and feelings and reactions - - perhaps using methods, and medicines or herbs, and controlling surroundings. Character of God's love does not need all that > Jesus on the cross, even, stayed busy with loving and helping us and others, in various ways of loving. On the cross, He did not have or need a special diet or a temple or a change of circumstance.

And He can share this with us, by living in us. So, there is this personal sharing,
included in Biblical Christianity . . . n-o-t only church culture!

And, like I offer, children are not born with this. And they can tend to love only or mainly ones who are good to them and take care of them. But Jesus says . . .

"if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46)

And in God's all-loving love we share with Him in His creativity for how to love any person, at all. This is better than how humans can get our own selves to do. This is through Jesus who is God's own Son, the best God has and shares with us. No lesser way is enough, because God loves us with His best >

Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (in John 14:6)

 

[FireDragon76]

Ok . . . thank you for your explanation, in any case.

What I consider is that it seems to me that what you are talking about means the Buddhist can start with one's own ability to cultivate kindness and then get the enlightenment and Nirvana which comes from practicing, if this is their correct word, kindness. One issue I have with this, Biblically, is how this in Buddhism can be self-dependent and starting from oneself. The Bible says,

Buddhism does have notions of an ontological ground in their metaphysics, it doesn't strictly come from oneself, even if it does involve human participation. Indeed, there are forms of Buddhism that are based exclusively on this kind of "Other-power".

Of course, Buddhism is a diverse religious movement and making broad generalizations about Buddhism tends to be problematic.

So, we are not starting with our own selves and what we can do with ourselves. We need how God changes our character first so we become more and more how His love is. And this changes us to become like Jesus so we can so personally share with Christ our Lord and Savior, by being like His love is. So, this is very personal with God, sharing like this.

That's basically a Christian polemic that is unlikely to persuaded a Buddhist to forsake their beliefs.

 

[Palmfever]

Many people and religions believe in love. Even those of no particular faith. Love may be the greatest of all, and it is an integral component of Christianity. Christianity however is about placing your soul in the hand of God. It is about faith. Love should be a result that comes with maturity and closeness to Him.

 

[com7fy8]

Of course, Buddhism is a diverse religious movement and making broad generalizations about Buddhism tends to be problematic.

There are, of course, a lot of groups all claiming to be Christian. And you can not make a broad generalization, more or less, about all groups, except to say you can not generalize

So, I have offered what I have found to be Biblical Christianity. And surely we have plenty of Christian groups who do not agree with what I have offered. To my knowledge, we have Christian groups who have integrated Eastern things of Buddhism into their manner of Christian living.

So, anyone who wants to generalize is lazy, maybe we could say!

 

[FireDragon76]

There are, of course, a lot of groups all claiming to be Christian. And you can not make a broad generalization, more or less, about all groups, except to say you can not generalize

If something is true, then it is true whether or not we call it Christian or Buddhist.

Seeking to cultivate virtues like kindness or compassion certainly are blameless and I don't think requires any justification when they are sough as intrinsic ends in themselves.

 

[com7fy8]

Seeking to cultivate virtues like kindness or compassion

Well, God is so superior to us all. So, how He in us cultivates something is going to be very different than how we humanly can try to produce what we consider to be . . . something.

And Jesus says He is "the way" to God > John 14:6. Because Jesus has always been divine as God, no need to cultivate Himself to be so. And His almighty power unchangeable is what changes us to His character; it is not a self and human effort thing.

 

[FireDragon76]

Well, God is so superior to us all. So, how He in us cultivates something is going to be very different than how we humanly can try to produce what we consider to be . . . something.

That's just empty polemic. Compassion doesn't require religious particularity to be valid, and insisting that Christian compassion is somehow automatically superior to Buddhist compassion, or Hindu compassion, or Jewish compassion, is quite toxic.

 

[com7fy8]

That's just empty polemic.

Jesus is God's own Son; Jesus is superior to all of us humans. His compassion is not a human-quality human-character thing.

 

[Psalm 27]

I recently read about two near death experiences. Neither of them mentioned Jesus...
The youtube video I watched (about a buddhist monk who died) did.

That's my litmus test

 

[FireDragon76]

I recently read about two near death experiences. Neither of them mentioned Jesus...
The youtube video I watched (about a buddhist monk who died) did.

That's my litmus test

Are you aware of what confirmation bias is? It's listening to only information that you happen to agree with, and discounting the rest.

 

[Andrewn]

Buddhists attempt to suppress the desires of our evil nature. . . . Only Christianity offers the possibility of transcending our evil nature by walking by the Spirit.

Some Bible translations use the expression "evil nature" or "sinful nature." They are not in the original Greek.