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Jesus ate the Paschal lamb before he was crucified

ralliann

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The first fruits of barley were waved on the day Yeshua rose (reishit ketzirchem). He was the first fruits of them that slept. The first fruits of wheat were 50 days later at Shavuot. Bikkurim. It is all in Torah. Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus. I made nothing up.
Yes, but the feast is weeks/shavuot, Pentecost. The firstripe species is barley I believe. Wheat does not ripen until later. But it concerned this day being the feast day of firstfruits. Messianics do that, just as they do with certain other things.

Ex 34:22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year’s end.
I have also seen Messianics say things about Passover along the lines I think you are. Scripture says it was a passover.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Yes, but the feast is weeks/shavuot, Pentecost. The firstripe species is barley I believe. Wheat does not ripen until later. But it concerned this day being the feast day of firstfruits. Messianics do that, just as they do with certain other things.

Ex 34:22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year’s end.
I have also seen Messianics say things about Passover along the lines I think you are. Scripture says it was a passover.
Did you not read what I have written? The firstfruits of barley are waived during unleavened (Leviticus 23:6-14). Wheat at Shavuot 50 days later (Leviticus 23:15-18).
 
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ralliann

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Yes and nothing you said negates the scriptures I posted or anything I have written
You are doing it again. You had said it was the "feast" of first fruits. And you and I were speaking concerning when that particular "FEAST" fell. So, now I am also done here, as it seems this will go the same way.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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You are doing it again. You had said it was the "feast" of first fruits. And you and I were speaking concerning when that particular "FEAST" fell. So, now I am also done here, as it seems this will go the same way.
Doing it again? Proving you wrong again? OK! The firstfruits of barley are waived during unleavened (Leviticus 23:6-14). Wheat at Shavuot 50 days later (Leviticus 23:15-18). It is all right there in Torah! Shavuah tov!
 
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Saber Truth Tiger

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Tradition. Where is the verse that there was lamb at the last supper?
SABER TRUTH TIGER
If I told someone I had a wonderful thanksgiving dinner and failed to mention the turkey would that mean there was no turkey? Please help me on this because I have heard many make this claim over the years yet none of them have provided proof that there was no lamb at the evening meal. It's an argument from silence. If X is not mentioned then there was no X. It doesn't logically follow. IF the meal was the Passover Seder (and I am not sure it was) then wouldn't mentioning the lamb be redundant? The Passover Seder included the lamb in the menu, did it not?
 
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AFrazier

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At this point, I am not even trying to convince him. I am just trying to understand his logic: the way he thinks :)
I’ve gone ‘round and ‘round with Yeshua HaDerekh on this topic for literally years. His point of view is that they ate the Last Supper at the beginning of the 14th, after sunset of the 13th day when it became, calendrically, the 14th. The next morning, which was the day of the 14th calendar day, Jesus was crucified.

Over numerous exchanges spanning years, he has never given an adequate explanation for Mark or Luke, and the fact that the afternoon preceding the Last Supper was the day when the Passover was sacrificed in their gospels. He believes his explanation resolves the issue, but it does not. Nor has he ever given an adequate explanation for the fact that Jesus sent Peter and John to prepare the Passover, which they then did.

All he ever does is insist that because Jesus is the Passover, he had to die on the 14th. No logic, no argument, no scripture, will change his mind. He‘s entirely mistaken in his stance, but he believes what he believes. It is my observation over the course of many exchanges that he’s not inclined towards objective debate. He’s just going to repeat himself, ignore any scripture or argument you make, lol a lot at any valid points you make, and generally waste your valuable time.

So, my advice would be to thank him for his input and stop debating with him.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I’ve gone ‘round and ‘round with Yeshua HaDerekh on this topic for literally years. His point of view is that they ate the Last Supper at the beginning of the 14th, after sunset of the 13th day when it became, calendrically, the 14th. The next morning, which was the day of the 14th calendar day, Jesus was crucified.

Over numerous exchanges spanning years, he has never given an adequate explanation for Mark or Luke, and the fact that the afternoon preceding the Last Supper was the day when the Passover was sacrificed in their gospels. He believes his explanation resolves the issue, but it does not. Nor has he ever given an adequate explanation for the fact that Jesus sent Peter and John to prepare the Passover, which they then did.

All he ever does is insist that because Jesus is the Passover, he had to die on the 14th. No logic, no argument, no scripture, will change his mind. He‘s entirely mistaken in his stance, but he believes what he believes. It is my observation over the course of many exchanges that he’s not inclined towards objective debate. He’s just going to repeat himself, ignore any scripture or argument you make, lol a lot at any valid points you make, and generally waste your valuable time.

So, my advice would be to thank him for his input and stop debating with him.
...and the ONLY thing you said that was true was your first paragraph. It is not my problem that you do not understand scripture or prophecy. ...hamevin yavin
 
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AFrazier

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...and the ONLY thing you said that was true was your first paragraph. It is not my problem that you do not understand scripture or prophecy. ...hamevin yavin
Like I said, nothing changes your mind. You’re wrong, and I refuse to debate with you. Go read your Bible.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Like I said, nothing changes your mind. You’re wrong, and I refuse to debate with you. Go read your Bible.
Why should it? You have not provided anything that would even begin to change my mind. I read scripture every day and, unlike you, I understand it. I am not the one here trying to hawk a book. hamevin yavin
 
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AFrazier

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Why should it? You have not provided anything that would even begin to change my mind. I read scripture every day and, unlike you, I understand it. I am not the one here trying to hawk a book. hamevin yavin
Actually, multiple people on this forum, and recognized scholars, have given you plenty of credible scripture and information that would have changed the mind of any objective person long ago.

And you go a little far to say that I’m hawking a book when you don’t even know the working title of it. Hawking a book suggests promoting it and trying to sell copies. I’ve done neither. The only reason it’s ever been mentioned is to communicate to others during active debate that I’ve been researching this topic for twenty-six years. I didn’t just read website and come to a conclusion. I am an expert in this field.

Have a good day.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Actually, multiple people on this forum, and recognized scholars, have given you plenty of credible scripture and information that would have changed the mind of any objective person long ago.

And you go a little far to say that I’m hawking a book when you don’t even know the working title of it. Hawking a book suggests promoting it and trying to sell copies. I’ve done neither. The only reason it’s ever been mentioned is to communicate to others during active debate that I’ve been researching this topic for twenty-six years. I didn’t just read website and come to a conclusion. I am an expert in this field.

Have a good day.
Yeah because they agree with you. I don't care what your book is called...I have read enough of your posts to know I never want to read it. You never post the multitude of Church Fathers and scholars that disagree with you. Almost 2000 years of Church history disagrees with you...thousands of Church scholars and Judaism (and you still do not know why lol) itself disagree with you! You consider yourself an expert because you wrote a little book for sale on Amazon lol? Tons of people have too and that does not make them experts. If that is your claim to fame, you have a LONG way to go! You are an expert in your own mind lol! Thanks, I WILL have a good day! :)
 
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AFrazier

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Yeah because they agree with you. I don't care what your book is called...I have read enough of your posts to know I never want to read it. You never post the multitude of Church Fathers and scholars that disagree with you. Almost 2000 years of Church history disagrees with you...thousands of Church scholars and Judaism (and you still do not know why lol) itself disagree with you! You consider yourself an expert because you wrote a little book for sale on Amazon lol? Tons of people have too and that does not make them experts. If that is your claim to fame, you have a LONG way to go! You are an expert in your own mind lol! Thanks, I WILL have a good day! :)
I know you don’t care what it’s called. Only an objective person would care, or read, a work that disagrees with their opinion. You’re not one of those people, so I never expected that you would ever read it. Wisdom is to be swift to listen, slow to speak, slow to wrath. I have never observed you doing any of these things.

No, I do not post church fathers. But I source many of them in what I’ve written. You’re making assumptions about a thing you know nothing about. But for the record, Ignatius mentions a 15th crucifixion via the Synoptic gospels, and so does Augustine. Augustine is unsure what to make of it.

I consider myself an expert because I have read hundreds of books on the subject over the course of twenty-six years. I have studied Latin, Greek, all the relevant secular histories, the Talmud, Josephus, the Bible extensively, numismatics, epigraphy, and papyrology. And the book is not currently available for sale as a self published work on Amazon. It’s in process. It takes time to write an academic work. And when it’s finished, I have every intention of shopping it to Cambridge, Oxford, and other notable publishing houses. Given the fact that it will break new ground on the Dionysian error, the correct calculating methodology of the Olympiad cycle, the Treaty of Brundisium, a credible dating of Herod’s death, a credible solution to the Josephan lunar eclipse, and a few other unique discoveries, I have every confidence that someone will publish it.

Relative to this information, I will also say that Judaism doesn’t disagree with me. You think it does because you don’t actually know what you’re talking about. But I am quite well read.

And, of course, as I warned other readers, your post included two antagonizing lols, because the only thing you really know how to do is insult people. Simple point of fact, your post was nothing less than a string of antagonistic and presumptuous insults, with not a single piece of useful information. Because that’s the kind of person you are.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I know you don’t care what it’s called. Only an objective person would care, or read, a work that disagrees with their opinion. You’re not one of those people, so I never expected that you would ever read it.

No, I do not post church fathers. But I source many of them in what I’ve written. You’re making assumptions about a thing you know nothing about. But for the record, Ignatius mentions a 15th crucifixion via the Synoptic gospels, and so does Augustine. Augustine is unsure what to make of it.

I consider myself an expert because I have read hundreds of books on the subject over the course of twenty-six years. I have studied Latin, Greek, all the relevant secular histories, the Talmud, Josephus, the Bible extensively, numismatics, epigraphy, and papyrology. And the book is not currently available for sale as a self published work on Amazon. It’s in process. It takes time to write an academic work. And when it’s finished, I have every intention of shopping it to Cambridge, Oxford, and other notable publishing houses. Given the fact that it will break new ground on the Dionysian error, the correct calculating methodology of the Olympiad cycle, the Treaty of Brundisium, a credible dating of Herod’s death, a credible solution to the Josephan lunar eclipse, and a few other unique discoveries, I have every confidence that someone will publish it.

Relative to this information, I will also say that Judaism doesn’t disagree with me. You think it does because you don’t actually know what you’re talking about. But I am quite well read.
YOU consider yourself an expert...as I said. No one else does. So if I and others do not care about the title of your little book, you now deem us not objective? Wow, how presumptuous and pompous of you...Mr "expert"! People "mentioning" a 15th crucifixion does not mean they believe it. Proper study of a subject deems ALL sides are investigated, not just one. However, when researched properly, some theories fall by the wayside, such as your belief. In relation to Judaism, 2nd Temple practice in Judaism, the Talmud and Torah itself DOES disagree with you, in a big way and yet you keep saying you are an expert, you STILL do not know why. I have discussed my position MANY times previously where anyone can read it and neither you or anyone else have proven it wrong in any way. You keep saying you do not want to continue debating me and yet here you are post after post...so don't then...are you just trying to keep yourself relevant? Par for the course I guess. Oy vey...
 
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AFrazier

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YOU consider yourself an expert...as I said. No one else does. So if I and others do not care about the title of your little book, you now deem us not objective? Wow, how presumptuous and pompous of you...Mr "expert"! People "mentioning" a 15th crucifixion does not mean they believe it. Proper study of a subject deems ALL sides are investigated, not just one. However, when researched properly, some theories fall by the wayside, such as your belief. In relation to Judaism, 2nd Temple practice in Judaism, the Talmud and Torah itself DOES disagree with you, in a big way and yet you keep saying you are an expert, you STILL do not know why. I have discussed my position MANY times previously where anyone can read it and neither you or anyone else have proven it wrong in any way. You keep saying you do not want to continue debating me and yet here you are post after post...so don't then...are you just trying to keep yourself relevant? Par for the course I guess. Oy vey...
:bow::sleep::help::liturgy:
 
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