Visiting an Orthodox Church - for Seekers

[notRusskiyMir]

I posted this in a few YouTube videos having to do with the subject, and have received positive feedback. Too often the videos do not deal with the basic things a visitor can expect. I am putting it here for comment and as something useful for the seekers. For fellow Orthodox, if you see the need for clarification or nuance, if I agree, I will be very happy to modify what I have placed here. I'm all for the greater good!

This is for people exploring Orthodoxy. A few points. (Cradle Orthodox here) from the standpoint of a first visit. This is from the Greek tradition, but much of it applies to all flavors of Orthodoxy.

Time: The "time" of the Divine Liturgy will be stated on the website or in some other public fashion. There is an earlier service - Orthos / Matins - that has to do with preparing the bread (mostly) for the Communion/Liturgy service, and introduces the particular day of the Orthodox calendar. That earlier service will appear to a newcomer as indistinguishable from the start of the Liturgy. It will blend in, but an experienced person will hear and see the familiar start of the Liturgy. So, come a little early and take it in.

Entry: Most Orthodox churches have an entryway called the Narthex (Vestibule) where you can collect yourself before you enter the main part - the Nave. There in the Narthex parishioners can purchase a candle and light a candle at a candle stand with an icon. You won't do that. There will be one or more parishioners - likely parish council members - that will take the money for the candles or donations or "dues", and should welcome newcomers, Orthodox or otherwise.
Feel free to introduce yourself. You might be asked to fill out a card with info that the priest at the end of the service might announce to the Faithful. When you are ready, enter the Nave.

Icons: The word means image, but has a deeper meaning to the Faithful. Icons are prayerfully "written" not painted. They are reverenced, and not worshipped. There IS a difference. Observe but do not attempt to kiss an icon - would be meaningless.

Nave: This is the central part of the church where the Faithful are. Enter the Nave and take a place - spot or pew seat - as you wish. Like any other place of gathering, some spots may be favorites of the "regulars", so be willing to move slightly here or there. Other than for weddings and funerals, there is no reserve seating, and no paid pews.

Pews: For Orthodox churches with pews, the parishioners will sit, then stand, and sit again, over and over, and may kneel. Do what is comfortable to you. I recommend you stand when the parishioners stand, but feel free not to - but you'll get a better view of things if you do. Probably do not kneel, but rather sit respectfully.

Structure: The Liturgy is broadly divided into the Liturgy of the Word - up to include the Gospel reading - and Liturgy of the Faithful - up to and including the Holy Communion. Then a short dismissal service. They all blend together. Depending on your background you may recognize the Nicaean Creed and the Lord's Prayer. These may be recited in two or more languages depending on the parish. As you experience Orthodoxy, you will see that many phrases and verbal images are repeated. Plan on staying to the end/dismissal, but you may leave at any time.

Holy Communion: Holy Communion in an Orthodox Church is for Orthodox Christians. No exceptions. The components are leavened bread and wine with a bit of warm water. It is offered via a spoon. In most cases the dismissal service closely follows Communion. (Some churches have the sermon following Communion.) Usually followed by announcements.

Singing: Most Orthodox hymns will be new to you. Even if a church has a choir, parishioners are free to sing. Most who choose to sing will "sub-sing" for most hymns, letting the choir dominate. There can be exceptions - parishioners will vigorously sing, specially during the pre- "Easter" services - "Easter" is called Pascha in Orthodoxy (and in most southern and eastern European countries / Mediterranean basin, even if not predominantly Orthodox) - as well as at Pascha and the Sundays after Pascha until Pentecost.

Sign of the Cross: The Orthodox frequently cross themselves. Don't do it without instruction. The Orthodox start with head, then torso, right shoulder, and then left shoulder. Fingers in a certain way - not open.

Antidoron: In Greek Orthodox churches and perhaps others, the priest will hand out blessed bread to parishioners as they come up after the service. You may take this as you wish. You are not committing yourself in any way. The bread is called "antidoron", from anti - instead of, and doron - the gifts. It is bread that was NOT used for the Communion bread. The bread is simply made and is quite tasty for what it is. If you decline, simply say you are a visitor learning about Orthodoxy. No harm, no foul.

Cross kissing: Instead of antidoron, some Orthodox churches' priests will have a large hand cross which the parishioners will come up and kiss / reverence. Don't do that - an empty gesture without background. Just follow folks out to where they exit.

Coffee/reception: Most Orthodox churches will have a coffee hour after the services. Most do NOT have a meal. They likely have alternatives to coffee. These are usually free. Some might have pastries or dessert for sale.

Welcoming: Most Orthodox churches have a formal means to welcome visitors. Especially in metropolitan areas in the US. If you are not greeted, it is likely you who does not want to be welcomed. Granted, there are exceptions. If you truly do not feel welcome, then seek another experience. It is not the norm.

Other services: In conjunction with the Divine Liturgy, there may be other smaller services added in / appended. Usually these are totally separated after the dismissal, but some may be integrated in, especially if a Bishop is present.
The two most common are a memorial service for a departed Faithful - Orthodoxy prays for the departed. Here there may be a tray of (dry) boiled wheat that has been decorated with powdered sugar, almonds, currants, and parsley - that symbolizes the soul of the departed. This is distributed to the attendees.
The other common service - less so - is a thanksgiving service called the Artoklasia (breaking of bread) - Five Loaves. Special wheat loaves are baked, are blessed in a short service then cut and distributed to the attendees.

Relax and let it come to you, but be open.

 

[All4Christ]

Great introduction. Some nuances with other jurisdictions - In the OCA (and ROCOR, etc.), we have Matins combined with Vespers - called Vigil. In my parish, we have the Hours read before the posted liturgy start time. On Saturday nights, we have Vespers or Vigil (vespers plus matins).

We have a full meal at our parish, but like you said - some will and some will have a light coffee hour.

I would say - don’t feel like you need to kiss the hand cross, but if you want to do that, you are welcome to do so. As an inquirer, I started doing that before I became a catechumen. Don’t just do it because everyone else is doing it.

Come and See

 

[notRusskiyMir]

Great introduction. Some nuances with other jurisdictions - In the OCA (and ROCOR, etc.), we have Matins combined with Vespers - called Vigil. In my parish, we have the Hours read before the posted liturgy start time. On Saturday nights, we have Vespers or Vigil (vespers plus matins).

We have a full meal at our parish, but like you said - some will and some will have a light coffee hour.

I would say - don’t feel like you need to kiss the hand cross, but if you want to do that, you are welcome to do so. As an inquirer, I started doing that before I became a catechumen. Don’t just do it because everyone else is doing it.

Come and See

Thanks.
Vigil. Must be a Slavic thing? I've seen the term but didn't know what it was in an Orthodox context. Are the Gifts prepped at that time or is that still done on Sunday? Also I noticed if a bishop is present, the dismissal is accompanied by anointing of oil on the forehead. Is that common? But if a priest leads the Vigil, is there anointing then too?

I thought about mentioning Vespers and how Orthodoxy starts the "Sunday" at sundown the night before. Also that Vespers on Saturday actually introduces the "Sunday" on the calendar. To my knowledge in the Greek version, Vespers last about 45-50 minutes.

I put this out so that anyone can adapt it and use it as they wish. It is often the small things that can retard seekers - human nature.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I would just say see what others are doing around you in the service, and do that if you’re comfortable (aside from the sacraments). then talk to Father when the service is done.

 

[All4Christ]

Thanks.
Vigil. Must be a Slavic thing? I've seen the term but didn't know what it was in an Orthodox context. Are the Gifts prepped at that time or is that still done on Sunday? Also I noticed if a bishop is present, the dismissal is accompanied by anointing of oil on the forehead. Is that common? But if a priest leads the Vigil, is there anointing then too?

Yes, it is a Slavic tradition. Vigil is essentially Vespers plus Litya plus Matins and the first hour. Third and sixth hours are read before the Divine Liturgy.

There is an anointing on the forehead when a priest serves the vigil, as well as bread dipped in wine for the faithful.

This describes the different rubrics including vespers as a stand along service and vespers as part of vigil. Liturgics - Outline of the Orthodox Service of Vespers

The gifts are prepared on Sunday.

 

[notRusskiyMir]

I didn't say anything about passing the tray(s). I suppose most Orthodox churches do this. While this is common in most every church, not just Orthodox, it probably should be mentioned. First draft is:

Passing the Tray(s). While many Orthodox churches have transitioned to a pledge method for fundraising for normal church expenses, typically one or more trays will be passed each Sunday before the dismissal service. The first tray is usually to support routine expenses of the church. Any additional tray(s) will be for special support for church needs, whether local, regional, etc. As a visitor there is no obligation or expectation for you to make a contribution. Just pass the tray to the next person or an usher.

 

[The Liturgist]

Yes, it is a Slavic tradition. Vigil is essentially Vespers plus Litya plus Matins and the first hour. Third and sixth hours are read before the Divine Liturgy.

There is an anointing on the forehead when a priest serves the vigil, as well as bread dipped in wine for the faithful.

This describes the different rubrics including vespers as a stand along service and vespers as part of vigil. Liturgics - Outline of the Orthodox Service of Vespers

The gifts are prepared on Sunday.

Actually Vigils are pre-Slavic in origin; they originated in the monasteries such as the Studion, the Athonite monasteries, and the Hagiopolitan church, where the monks and some faithful to this day will where appropriate have an All Night Vigil at the Holy Sepulchre, which requires them to be locked in by the gate keeper due to the Status Quo, so in that case it is literally all night.

Literally all night vigils happen with Russian Old Rite Orthodox, Athonite monks, and in Jerusalem, and also among the Oriental Orthodox one will encounter them among the Copts and especially the Ethiopians and Eritreans.

 

[The Liturgist]

I didn't say anything about passing the tray(s). I suppose most Orthodox churches do this. While this is common in most every church, not just Orthodox, it probably should be mentioned. First draft is:

In my experience a great many do not do this. Also the use of brass “offering trays” like what the Protestants use, I haven’t seen. Rather I’ve seen various improvised means of collections, such as boxes, a faux-fur sort of satchel, and so on.

In my opinion, considering that people donate for lighting candles, this is a more organic form of offering which also contributes to the worship, whereas passing a plate can be a distraction.

 

[notRusskiyMir]

In my experience a great many do not do this. Also the use of brass “offering trays” like what the Protestants use, I haven’t seen. Rather I’ve seen various improvised means of collections, such as boxes, a faux-fur sort of satchel, and so on.

In my opinion, considering that people donate for lighting candles, this is a more organic form of offering which also contributes to the worship, whereas passing a plate can be a distraction.

The use of brass (or wooden) “offering trays” is certainly common in the GOA parishes. I can see where it would be awkward if the people are standing. As I said, trays are used even with parishes using a pledge system, and even those with "dues". I have to say that 'candle money' isn't going to pay the bills in a US church. As to distraction, I think the common practice is to pass the trays before the dismissal service. So, no biggie.
But the focus is on first time visitors. I think what I have here is enough notice, trays or no trays.

 

[All4Christ]

The use of brass (or wooden) “offering trays” is certainly common in the GOA parishes. I can see where it would be awkward if the people are standing. As I said, trays are used even with parishes using a pledge system, and even those with "dues". I have to say that 'candle money' isn't going to pay the bills in a US church. As to distraction, I think the common practice is to pass the trays before the dismissal service. So, no biggie.
But the focus is on first time visitors. I think what I have here is enough notice, trays or no trays.

I think the model for giving in the Greek Church is different than some others. We have tithing rather than pledges or dues.

We do have a basket that is passed around, though many give tithes - or whatever donation they can provide - through other venues. The second basket for us is up at the front where we venerate the cross. That one is for the charity of the month.

 

[The Liturgist]

The use of brass (or wooden) “offering trays” is certainly common in the GOA parishes.

Curiously I’ve not seen them at the Greek parishes I have visited, but I believe you. One thing I regret is that I have not had the chance to visit a Greek parish with an organ, that uses the beautiful four part harmony of Tikey Zes or Michaelides and other composers. I do love Byzantine Chant, particularly as practiced by the Bulgarians, but I also love four part harmony.

 

[notRusskiyMir]

Curiously I’ve not seen them at the Greek parishes I have visited, but I believe you. One thing I regret is that I have not had the chance to visit a Greek parish with an organ, that uses the beautiful four part harmony of Tikey Zes or Michaelides and other composers. I do love Byzantine Chant, particularly as practiced by the Bulgarians, but I also love four part harmony.

The organ was authorized in GOA by Archbishop Athenagoras (later EP) in the 1920-30s. I think there is a small story about this.

I do not know music and even less of Orthodox music, but in my experience, the use of the organ in GOA churches is very subdued, and is an accompaniment to the voices of the choir. There is never any solo with the organ. The most I have heard is the Handel's (?) wedding march for introduction of the bride at a wedding. I strongly doubt "four part harmony" is a real thing in GOA.

The Moscow church under Tsar Peter, I believe, hired Italian musicians to fashion what is heard in Slavic churches today. I apologize if this is wrong, but that is my recollection.

On your other recent comment, I find it hard to believe that you didn't see collection trays being used in GOA churches. I've been to many GOA churches over many years and other than at Presanctified liturgies, they were always used.

 

[The Liturgist]

On your other recent comment, I find it hard to believe that you didn't see collection trays being used in GOA churches. I've been to many GOA churches over many years and other than at Presanctified liturgies, they were always used.

Perhaps it was because I have only attended Divine Liturgies at the Greek Orthodox Church on weekdays?

 

[The Liturgist]

I strongly doubt "four part harmony" is a real thing in GOA.

It is. The music of TIkey Zes, Michaelides, and so on, falls into that category.

Organs by the way have been in use in Greek churches for a fairly substantial amount of time. For example, there was an organ in the narthex of Hagia Sophia, which was played before the liturgies themselves began. After the institution of Turkocratia, the organ reappeared in the Ionian Islands, probably due to Venetian influence, and again appeared in Western Europe, again probably due to Western European influence.

The Moscow church under Tsar Peter, I believe, hired Italian musicians to fashion what is heard in Slavic churches today. I apologize if this is wrong, but that is my recollection.

There was indeed one highly prominent and successful Ukrainian composer during the Baroque era, who was trained in Italy, Dmitri Bortniansky, whose music was widely adopted by the Russians, Ukrainians and Bulgarians, but his music is also strongly influenced by Slavic traditional church music such as Znamenny Chant and Prostopinije. And his music had a profound and very positive influence on subsequent Orthodox composers such as Chesnokov, Archangelsky, Grechinov and others. However, much of the music that is in four part harmony is not attributed to any specific composer, but rather is the result of the organic development of Slavonic chant into different forms, such as Kievan chant, “Greek chant” which is not really Greek, I can’t recall why it is called Greek, but there is a particularly lovely melody for the Trisagion that has that classification, Imperial court chant, which has a highly joyous sound an is used on festive occasions, and several others.

Then in Georgia, and in Greece, there exists beautiful three part harmony. I am not familiar with the complete history of Greek Orthodox three part harmony, but it is a thing, but in Georgia, three part harmony is the prevailing form, and it is quite exquisite.

And then of course the Carpatho-Rusyns who make up all of ACROD and much of the OCA use Prostopinje, which is very good for congregational singing, and which also tends towards tonality and four part harmony.

The Serbians and Romanians have their own composers of four part harmony, in addition to using Byzantine chant. And the Antiochians use a variant form of Byzantine chant known as “Syro-Byzantine Chant” which has some similarities in how it sounds to the beautiful eight mode system of West Syriac chant used by the Syriac Orthodox who have extremely close ties to the Antiochians due to the abduction of the Metropolitans of Aleppo and also the joint agreement between the two churches in 1993. Indeed, it was touching how for several years after the abduction, during the dark years of the ISIS war, in any Antiochian or Syriac Orthodox church you would hear prayers being made for the return of both bishops, Metropolitan Peter Yazigi, the brother of the Antiochian Orthodox Patriarch John X Yazigi, and Metropolitan Gregorios Yohanna Ibrahim. I hope they are still alive, but we still have no idea what happened to them - they disappeared, or rather were kidnapped, while returning to Aleppo from Lebanon, as the civil war in Syria was heating up.

 

[notRusskiyMir]

It is. The music of TIkey Zes, Michaelides, and so on, falls into that category.

Organs by the way have been in use in Greek churches for a fairly substantial amount of time. For example, there was an organ in the narthex of Hagia Sophia, which was played before the liturgies themselves began. After the institution of Turkocratia, the organ reappeared in the Ionian Islands, probably due to Venetian influence, and again appeared in Western Europe, again probably due to Western European influence.



There was indeed one highly prominent and successful Ukrainian composer during the Baroque era, who was trained in Italy, Dmitri Bortniansky, whose music was widely adopted by the Russians, Ukrainians and Bulgarians, but his music is also strongly influenced by Slavic traditional church music such as Znamenny Chant and Prostopinije. And his music had a profound and very positive influence on subsequent Orthodox composers such as Chesnokov, Archangelsky, Grechinov and others. However, much of the music that is in four part harmony is not attributed to any specific composer, but rather is the result of the organic development of Slavonic chant into different forms, such as Kievan chant, “Greek chant” which is not really Greek, I can’t recall why it is called Greek, but there is a particularly lovely melody for the Trisagion that has that classification, Imperial court chant, which has a highly joyous sound an is used on festive occasions, and several others.

Then in Georgia, and in Greece, there exists beautiful three part harmony. I am not familiar with the complete history of Greek Orthodox three part harmony, but it is a thing, but in Georgia, three part harmony is the prevailing form, and it is quite exquisite.

And then of course the Carpatho-Rusyns who make up all of ACROD and much of the OCA use Prostopinje, which is very good for congregational singing, and which also tends towards tonality and four part harmony.

The Serbians and Romanians have their own composers of four part harmony, in addition to using Byzantine chant. And the Antiochians use a variant form of Byzantine chant known as “Syro-Byzantine Chant” which has some similarities in how it sounds to the beautiful eight mode system of West Syriac chant used by the Syriac Orthodox who have extremely close ties to the Antiochians due to the abduction of the Metropolitans of Aleppo and also the joint agreement between the two churches in 1993. Indeed, it was touching how for several years after the abduction, during the dark years of the ISIS war, in any Antiochian or Syriac Orthodox church you would hear prayers being made for the return of both bishops, Metropolitan Peter Yazigi, the brother of the Antiochian Orthodox Patriarch John X Yazigi, and Metropolitan Gregorios Yohanna Ibrahim. I hope they are still alive, but we still have no idea what happened to them - they disappeared, or rather were kidnapped, while returning to Aleppo from Lebanon, as the civil war in Syria was heating up.

I am aware that an 'organ' was used in Agia Sophia. As to the rest, you mostly mentioned non-Greek applications of the harmonies. Again, Slavic or Slavic influenced. I can say that I never heard of any harmonies in a Divine Liturgy in GOA churches I have attended.

This link is what is used in GOA churches. This was developed privately for GOA Faithful and was 'obtained' by GOA perhaps 3? years ago. There is text and music. It is available for smartphone use - an app. Digital Chant Stand - GOA

 

[The Liturgist]

I can say that I never heard of any harmonies in a Divine Liturgy in GOA churches I have attended.

One parish that has particularly beautiful music of both forms is the Church of St. Sophia in Los Angeles, which is also a splendid church in terms of its architecture. I know the priest who currently works there.

 

[notRusskiyMir]

One parish that has particularly beautiful music of both forms is the Church of St. Sophia in Los Angeles, which is also a splendid church in terms of its architecture. I know the priest who currently works there.

Perhaps it was because I have only attended Divine Liturgies at the Greek Orthodox Church on weekdays?

So the Church of St. Sophia in Los Angeles has this elaborate music on a weekday? Kewl!

 

[The Liturgist]

So the Church of St. Sophia in Los Angeles has this elaborate music on a weekday? Kewl!

I watch the liturgy of that church via YouTube, and they follow a common format of using Byzantine chant during Matins and four part harmony during the Liturgy.

 

[notRusskiyMir]

So the Church of St. Sophia in Los Angeles has this elaborate music on a weekday? Kewl!

I watch the liturgy of that church via YouTube, and they follow a common format of using Gregorian chant during Matins and four part harmony during the Liturgy.

No you didn't. Gregorian chant is western music. There is no four part harmony in Orthodox tradition.

Your comments in this thread have been a distraction. You would do well to delete your comments here. The purpose of this thread is to encourage seekers to find Orthodoxy by making a first visit.
Evaluate your comments in that light and do the right thing.

 

[ArmyMatt]

There is no four part harmony in Orthodox tradition.

not true, the Slavic tradition has it