Wife getting massages

[Strong in Him]

Yet there are female nurses present, etc.

No, I mean the husband isn't necessarily present.
He may be in the forces or serving overseas and not able to get back. It could be a quick labour and the husband is at work/out of town. Or he may simply be very anxious/squeamish and not want to be there. Women have enough to concentrate on in childbirth without worrying about their husband's actions, or reactions.

 

[Strong in Him]

The husband is the head of the family as scripture says.

So you ARE saying that a husband can dismiss his wife's feelings and preferences or ask her to give up something that he doesn't like.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

No, I mean the husband isn't necessarily present.

I understand that. There is a BIG difference in a woman giving birth to a child in a hospital and a woman mostly naked get a oil massage from a man in a closed room...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

So you ARE saying that a husband can dismiss his wife's feelings and preferences or ask her to give up something that he doesn't like.

Did I say that? No

 

[CoreyD]

My wife has been going for massages for many years. I always assumed it was a spa setting with multiple people in the room. Turns out she is alone with a man for 50 minutes, door closed and shades drawn, covered by a sheet except for the body part being massaged, wearing only her bikini briefs, massage oil, everything except her bikini area and breasts are fair game for his hands directly on her skin. He is a licensed "massage therapist" and I have been assured it is completely non-sexual, just for relaxation and, as needed, working out a stiff back or sore neck, that sort of thing. This has me upset. I feel like I should have been told years ago exactly what the circumstances were. Does this make anyone else uncomfortable? Am I just too insecure? I don't believe it will lead to any actual impropriety or infidelity, but I don't like the idea of another man running his hands all over her feet, legs, thighs, shoulders etc. in private using massage oils. Thoughts?

Did your wife tell you from the start, she was going for massages?
That first of all should have been discussed between the two of you.
However, you said you made an assumption, rather than go into details.
We make mistakes, because, as humans, we do not alway do the right thing.

The first mistake, in my opinion was made, when your wife decided on this type of massage.
This is not one of those medical massages, but what is called a sensual massage.
Thus your wife opened a door to temptation,,, something a Christian would want to avoid doing.
In this day, I would not even feel comfortable with my wife having such a massage by a woman.

I would have a Biblical discussion with her using Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:19; 2 Peter 2:14, and remind her that even when Christians are courting, they were to avoid being alone, because of the dangers of being tempted to give in to sexual immorality (Proverbs 22:3), and at the end of the discussion, the decision would be final - Nope. If anyone is giving you a full body massage, it will be me.

It's not too late to have that discussion with your wife.
Let her know it's not her, you don't trust, but the wicked heart, in all of us, and Jesus told us this is where the vices live.
The Bible says, at Proverbs 4:23, Guard your heart above all else, for it determines the course of your life.

Make sure you use the scriptures skillfully, so that your wife sees, that you are using sound advise, which guides our thinking, and helps us make wise decisions, in a world that is depraved.
I'm sorry to hear that this has happened to you, and hope it can be rectified.
You have good reason to be concerned.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What problem? The expectation that I be treated with a basic level of trust?

Oh heck no. Anyone who wants to monitor and control to a significant degree for no reason is not someone I want to be in a relationship with.

Just for the record, I don't monitor and control my wife, so this whole discussion is, for me, rather a moot point. But on behalf of all of those men and women everywhere who may be prone to valid feelings of mistrust, then I'm simply offering a minor, ameliorative measure for those who need some reassurance in their most trusted relationships.

That can be a matter for conversation, I guess, and outside support with a counsellor or the like if there's significant disagreement. My point is, sure, there are situations where a higher level of accountability become reasonable. But monitoring relationships, communications, appointments, etc, for no particular reason? That's a whole other level.

I agree. And taking this then to "a whole other level," I for one am more or less against the application of "The Panopticon" at nearly any level of society that we can think of. Nearly all, except for an application upon bona fide criminals. Of course, my disinclination for this at nearly any level has been thoroughly and utterly overruled already by many of my fellow human beings in our modern tech driven world, even by those who make the claim that they do so for the sake of "Liberty."

 

[Desk trauma]

oh poor atheist presuming being persecuted. I discount your responses because Paul means nothing to you and this OP is a Christian.

Yes, we’re aware that Christians have the persecution market cornered in the US.

 

[Strong in Him]

I understand that. There is a BIG difference in a woman giving birth to a child in a hospital and a woman mostly naked get a oil massage from a man in a closed room...

Yes, the giving birth scenario is more embarrassing and exposing.
Read the OP again; sensitive areas are off bounds and the lady is covered with a sheet except for the part being treated - which could be an arm or shoulder.

 

[Strong in Him]

Did I say that? No

That's what your words implied, and you have done nothing to correct that understanding.

 

[Strong in Him]

Did your wife tell you from the start, she was going for massages?
That first of all should have been discussed between the two of you.
However, you said you made an assumption, rather than go into details.
We make mistakes, because, as humans, we do not alway do the right thing.

The first mistake, in my opinion was made, when your wife decided on this type of massage.
This is not one of those medical massages, but what is called a sensual massage.

How do you know that?
Physiotherapists, and others, can give massages. And they can indeed be for the release of tension, a stiff neck, shoulder or whatever.

Thus your wife opened a door to temptation,,, something a Christian would want to avoid doing.

The OP has said they were assured that it was completely non-sexual. A massage therapist who was abusing their position would be in serious trouble.

In this day, I would not even feel comfortable with my wife having such a massage by a woman.

I don't think a married man would feel comfortable with his wife having a sensual massage from anyone but himself. But that doesn't seem to be what is going on here.

I would have a Biblical discussion with her using Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:19; 2 Peter 2:14, and remind her that even when Christians are courting, they were to avoid being alone, because of the dangers of being tempted to give in to sexual immorality (Proverbs 22:3), and at the end of the discussion, the decision would be final - Nope. If anyone is giving you a full body massage, it will be me.

It's not too late to have that discussion with your wife.

I would say that it is, personally.
The massages have been going on for many years, and clearly the OP was aware of them. As you said, he made assumptions.
I feel that to suddenly say, "oh so it's a man giving you these massages? We'd better have a Bible study, I'll show you why I disagree and then I expect you to give them up" would, at the very least, indicate a level of mistrust.

Let her know it's not her, you don't trust, but the wicked heart, in all of us, and Jesus told us this is where the vices live.

She's been going for the massages for years.
The OP has been assured that they are non-sexual, and furthermore, he doesn't believe they would lead to anything.

You have good reason to be concerned.

If they had been going on for a couple of weeks, led to a change of behaviour from the wife and difficulties/a cooling off in their relationship; possibly.
But after many years, with no suggestion that anything improper has ever gone on?

 

[Strong in Him]

My wife has been going for massages for many years. I always assumed it was a spa setting with multiple people in the room. Turns out she is alone with a man for 50 minutes, door closed and shades drawn, covered by a sheet except for the body part being massaged, wearing only her bikini briefs, massage oil, everything except her bikini area and breasts are fair game for his hands directly on her skin. He is a licensed "massage therapist" and I have been assured it is completely non-sexual, just for relaxation and, as needed, working out a stiff back or sore neck, that sort of thing. This has me upset. I feel like I should have been told years ago exactly what the circumstances were. Does this make anyone else uncomfortable? Am I just too insecure? I don't believe it will lead to any actual impropriety or infidelity, but I don't like the idea of another man running his hands all over her feet, legs, thighs, shoulders etc. in private using massage oils. Thoughts?

Hi and welcome to these forums.
I'm sorry that I jumped into this thread without first answering your post.

It is possible to have massages for relaxation, to work out stress or ease a stiff shoulder or whatever without there being anything funny going on at all. I have had massages like this. The therapists use essential oils that are supposed to be good for tension, healing, stress and so on. Yes, the person doing mine was a woman, but, these days, that could be a problem, unless you make a point of asking about their sexuality beforehand.
You have been assured that it is non-sexual and don't believe it would lead to anything untoward.

If your wife has been having these for years and there is no difference in her attitude towards you or a problem in your relationship, it doesn't sound as though there is anything to worry about.
It might cause more of a problem if you were suddenly to say "I'd rather you stopped that". If I were in that position, I would almost certainly take that as an indication that my husband suddenly didn't trust me.

 

[Desk trauma]

All these half measures. Husband accompanying her and waiting outside? Clearly the only way he can be sure nothing inappropriate happens to his property wife is to be in the room with her .

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Yes, the giving birth scenario is more embarrassing and exposing.
Read the OP again; sensitive areas are off bounds and the lady is covered with a sheet except for the part being treated - which could be an arm or shoulder.

More exposing TO A DOCTOR...IN A HOSPITAL. Yes, nothing bad can happen in a closed room with an almost naked woman alone with a man massaging oil on her body.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

That's what your words implied, and you have done nothing to correct that understanding.

Implied TO YOU.

 

[Strong in Him]

Implied TO YOU.

So tell me what you meant then.

 

[Strong in Him]

Yes, nothing bad can happen in a closed room with an almost naked woman alone with a man massaging oil on her body.

And nothing ever has in this case.
All that has happened is that, after many years of knowing about these massages, the OP suddenly discovered that a man was involved.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

So tell me what you meant then.

already did

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

And nothing ever has in this case.
All that has happened is that, after many years of knowing about these massages, the OP suddenly discovered that a man was involved.

maybe maybe not, neither you or I know

 

[CoreyD]

How do you know that?
Physiotherapists, and others, can give massages. And they can indeed be for the release of tension, a stiff neck, shoulder or whatever.


The OP has said they were assured that it was completely non-sexual. A massage therapist who was abusing their position would be in serious trouble.

I don't think a married man would feel comfortable with his wife having a sensual massage from anyone but himself. But that doesn't seem to be what is going on here.

I would say that it is, personally.
The massages have been going on for many years, and clearly the OP was aware of them. As you said, he made assumptions.
I feel that to suddenly say, "oh so it's a man giving you these massages? We'd better have a Bible study, I'll show you why I disagree and then I expect you to give them up" would, at the very least, indicate a level of mistrust.

She's been going for the massages for years.
The OP has been assured that they are non-sexual, and furthermore, he doesn't believe they would lead to anything.

If they had been going on for a couple of weeks, led to a change of behaviour from the wife and difficulties/a cooling off in their relationship; possibly.
But after many years, with no suggestion that anything improper has ever gone on?

As I said, as humans we make mistakes. It is our nature.
So, if after some years, the husband is concerned, he should act on those concerns and correct what mistakes were made.

I stand by the scriptures in my post.
The reason two courting people avoid being alone, is to avoid the danger that comes from doing so.
No human is immune to temptation.

The husband in the OP realized that his wife is alone with someone of the opposite sex, who is rubbing her body, and God knows what else, while she is God knows, whether half naked, or naked.

If the husband is concerned, and wants to discuss this concern - which he should, as she is his flesh, then he should not keep it to himself, but do so right away.
If the wife wants to have her massages, they can both discuss and agree that she can a masseuse.

This is based on scriptural principles, rather than a personal view.
In every decision a Christian makes, Bible principles should be the source to which they look.
Everyone has an opinion.
We know what happens when we rely on our opinions. Proverbs 14:12

 

[Sunflower39]

Do we want to suggest to women that they remove any and all demands they may have about having access to their husbands mobile phones? I think if we suggested this to women, many if not most of them would balk at the idea. I think it'd be the uncommon woman, or wife, who would firmly and honestly say, "My husband? Oh hell, baby, he can do whatever he wants on his phone. I don't care."

Sorry but I find this comment bizarre. I don’t expect to look at my husbands phone and he doesn’t expect to look at mine. We completely trust each other. Does that make me the ‘uncommon wife’?