Luke 13:3 being ripped out of context to teach Repent Of Your Sins

[BelieveItOarKnot]

So murder isn't a sin ?

Thinking of it is evil/defiling. Mark 7:21-23

We can also, all resist the urge to act on the temptations.

The point of this exercise is to realize that these observations are never just about the individual.

There are people, and there is the tempter/his own.

God engages BOTH

And people are not devils

 

[tdidymas]

So murder isn't a sin ?
Disregarding those in need isn't a sin ?

We can also, all resist the urge to act on the temptations.

I disagree, as by the Spirit of God, we can destroy the old man and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
By the Spirit, we can walk in the light, and forsake darkness.
By the Spirit, we have been made perfectly obedient to God.
Your evaluation of the Spirit is off the mark.

You said: "we can destroy the old man"
"we can walk in the light, and forsake darkness"

Your language is inconsistent, because these two statements assume that a Christian who has the Holy Spirit still has an old man and is still in darkness. You should think about what you're saying. It's is inconsistent with your statement "By the Spirit, we have been made perfectly obedient to God". So then, which is it? One having the Holy Spirit is perfectly obedient, or has an old man and is in darkness? You should explain what appears contradictory in your response here. (However, I suspect you will evade the question).

 

[Hoping2]

If we were made totally obedient, why does the apostle Paul write (after his conversion):

“18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but [how] to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will [to do], I do not do; but the evil I will not [to do], that I practice.” (Ro 7:18-19 NKJV)

Morning, David...
Rom 7's middle and end are entirely a narrative from Paul's past, while he still walked in the flesh, (Rom 7:5), and was trying unsuccessfully to keep the Law of Moses.
It was of no use to him, regarding salvation.

You'll notice that Paul's Rom 7:23 plaint is answered in Rom 8:2.
And Paul's Rom 7:24 plaint is answered in Rom 6:6.
Both are answers to Paul's prior complaints, indicating that they are from his past and still in the flesh.

And why did the apostle John write to his Christian readers:
“8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1Jo 1:8-9 NKJV)

John is addressing the church about two very different kinds of men.
One walks in the light, which is God in Whom is no sin.
The other walks in darkness, which Pro 4:19 says is sin.
John uses an alternating style of writing in an effort to juxtapose one against the other.
(Paul used the same "style" in Rom 8, juxtaposing those who walked in the flesh against those who walked in the Spirit.)

So, verses 5, 7, and 9, address those who are, or are about to, walk in the light-God.
Verses 6, 8, and 10, address those who walk in darkness-sin.
It is the sinners who cannot say they have no sin.
But those in the light-God cannot have any sin on them because there is no sin in God !

 

[Hoping2]

Thinking of it is evil/defiling. Mark 7:21-23

If one is dwelling on thoughts of killing someone, it is sin.
But if the urge to kill is immediately resisted, it is just a temptation that can be conquered.

The point of this exercise is to realize that these observations are never just about the individual.
There are people, and there is the tempter/his own.
God engages BOTH
And people are not devils

It is a pointless exercise to say man will not be charged for his sins.

 

[Hoping2]

You said: "we can destroy the old man"
"we can walk in the light, and forsake darkness"

Yes, I did.

Your language is inconsistent, because these two statements assume that a Christian who has the Holy Spirit still has an old man and is still in darkness.

I can't agree with your summation.
"We" is all mankind, not just you or me, believer or unbeliever.
All of mankind can destroy the old man and walk in the light, thanks to the grace of God.

You should think about what you're saying. It's is inconsistent with your statement "By the Spirit, we have been made perfectly obedient to God". So then, which is it? One having the Holy Spirit is perfectly obedient, or has an old man and is in darkness? You should explain what appears contradictory in your response here. (However, I suspect you will evade the question).

Those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (Ga 5:24)
They walk in the light, and have forsaken darkness.

 

[tdidymas]

Yes, I did.

I can't agree with your summation.
"We" is all mankind, not just you or me, believer or unbeliever.
All of mankind can destroy the old man and walk in the light, thanks to the grace of God.

Those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (Ga 5:24)
They walk in the light, and have forsaken darkness.

So then: one not having the Spirit can destroy the old man and walk in the light, and then they have the Spirit to be perfectly obedient?
Can you give an exact sequence of events here?

 

[Hoping2]

So then: one not having the Spirit can destroy the old man and walk in the light, and then they have the Spirit to be perfectly obedient?
Can you give an exact sequence of events here?

Sure.
If one turns from sin, (repents of sin), and is baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of those sins, he will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost...as per Acts 2:38.
So the sequence is repent, get washed by the blood of Christ, receive the Holy Ghost, walk in the light, which is God.
The baptism destroys the old man, like Paul wrote in Rom 6:6.
The washing makes the 'temple' fit the for the Spirits' habitation.
Then we are equipt to keep walking in God/light.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

If one is dwelling on thoughts of killing someone, it is sin.

I don't recall Jesus setting a stop watch for the reality everyone has with regards to Mark 7:21-23

It is a pointless exercise to say man will not be charged for sins

As prior noted man is not just man.

Two simultaneous truths do exist in theology and can be in direct opposite fashions, for example, sins not being counted against people:

2 Cor. 5:
19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

And those same sins can and will be counted against the devil:

1 John 3:
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

You do recall that Jesus looked at Peter and rebuked who? Satan. You do recall Jesus forgiving the men who nailed Him to the cross, why? Because "they know not what they do." These men were blinded by the devil, slaves. 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2

The only way we see in any better way is that we know the source of these matters is not us, and we therefore do battle, internally, with our adversary. Yes. Internal. Temptations, deceptions, errors, partial sights all stem from our adversary, Mark 4:15

 

[tdidymas]

Sure.
If one turns from sin, (repents of sin), and is baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of those sins, he will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost...as per Acts 2:38.
So the sequence is repent, get washed by the blood of Christ, receive the Holy Ghost, walk in the light, which is God.
The baptism destroys the old man, like Paul wrote in Rom 6:6.
The washing makes the 'temple' fit the for the Spirits' habitation.
Then we are equipt to keep walking in God/light.

How does this correlate with Eph. 2:1-10, since he says that we were raised up and seated with Christ "while we were dead in sin"?

 

[Hoping2]

I don't recall Jesus setting a stop watch for the reality everyone has with regards to Mark 7:21-23

If you want to dwell on murdering someone, ir is a sin.
If you reject the idea/temptation outright, it is not sin.

As prior noted man is not just man.

Your opinion is not biblical, and is in fact an accommodation for sin.
I reject it.

Two simultaneous truths do exist in theology and can be in direct opposite fashions, for example, sins not being counted against people:

If two things are true, they cannot oppose each other.
Where are you getting this ludicrous theology ?
Are you a JWitness ?

2 Cor. 5:
19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Thank God for that.
Thanks be to God for making a way for our past sins to be washed away !
And thanks be to God for the ability to resist temptations.

And those same sins can and will be counted against the devil:
1 John 3:
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

That is some false doctrine you foist on me.
I reject it.

You do recall that Jesus looked at Peter and rebuked who? Satan. You do recall Jesus forgiving the men who nailed Him to the cross, why? Because "they know not what they do." These men were blinded by the devil, slaves. 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2

They may have been blinded, but the penalty for their sins will be paid by them...not the devils.

The only way we see in any better way is that we know the source of these matters is not us, and we therefore do battle, internally, with our adversary. Yes. Internal. Temptations, deceptions, errors, partial sights all stem from our adversary, Mark 4:15

If the devil is in you, you are possessed by the devil.

 

[Hoping2]

How does this correlate with Eph. 2:1-10, since he says that we were raised up and seated with Christ "while we were dead in sin"?

Jesus did all the suffering and died, while we were still in sin.
Nobody still dead in sin is seated with Christ.
It is after our repentance from sin, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, that we are seated with Christ.
For we are baptized into Christ by baptism.
In Him, we can take part in all He made ready for us.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Your opinion is not biblical, and is in fact an accommodation for sin.
I reject it.

Perhaps review the mountain of scriptures cited on this between us

Sin is of the devil who does sin in mankind

And sins are not counted against people

One forgiven

One not

 

[tdidymas]

Jesus did all the suffering and died, while we were still in sin.
Nobody still dead in sin is seated with Christ.
It is after our repentance from sin, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, that we are seated with Christ.
For we are baptized into Christ by baptism.
In Him, we can take part in all He made ready for us.

It sounds to me like you think God justifies us because we repented from sin and were baptised, no?

 

[Hoping2]

Perhaps review the mountain of scriptures cited on this between us
Sin is of the devil who does sin in mankind

Show us the scripture that says "sin is of the devil who does sin in mankind".

And sins are not counted against people

Might as well show that scripture too.
Sin won't be charges to those whose repentance from sin is true, as they don't commit sin.

One forgiven

One not

 

[Hoping2]

It sounds to me like you think God justifies us because we repented from sin and were baptised, no?

Of course.
Do you figure He is going to justify anyone who won't turn from sin and to Him ?
If we have faith in Christ, we will do those two things and much more.

 

[tdidymas]

Of course.
Do you figure He is going to justify anyone who won't turn from sin and to Him ?
If we have faith in Christ, we will do those two things and much more.

Are you Roman Catholic? That church and the Easterns and others teach that nonsense. But here is what the apostle Paul wrote in Rom. 4:5:
"But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness." This contradicts your idea.

Further he wrote in Eph. 2:5 "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)" which contradicts what you said earlier, since you claimed:
"It is after our repentance from sin, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, that we are seated with Christ."
Paul says "when we were dead," but you say "after our repentance..."

But I will bet you don't see the difference.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Show us the scripture that says "sin is of the devil who does sin in mankind".

Several times prior, here again, Mark 4:15, 1 John 3:8

Sin won't be charges to those whose repentance from sin is true, as they don't commit sin.

Repentance doesn't make anyone sinless either

 

[Hoping2]

Are you Roman Catholic?

No.

That church and the Easterns and others teach that nonsense.

Do you really feel that God will justify anyone who continues to offend Him ?
I don't think so.

But here is what the apostle Paul wrote in Rom. 4:5:
"But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness." This contradicts your idea.

Do you really feel that there are faithful murderers, adulterers, liars, or thieves ?
I don't.

Further he wrote in Eph. 2:5 "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)" which contradicts what you said earlier, since you claimed:
"It is after our repentance from sin, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, that we are seated with Christ."

As that quickening occurs during our baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, (Rom 6:4), it won't happen until the baptism occurs.
Repentance from sin happens even before baptism. (Acts 2:38)

Paul says "when we were dead," but you say "after our repentance..."

Jesus died for us before we even knew about repentance or baptism...when we were still dead in sins.
But until we do our part, His death won't help us at all.

But I will bet you don't see the difference.

I know that Jesus died so I could be sanctified, justified, made clean, atoned for, set apart, reborn of the Spirit, and consecrated.
But until I did my part, those things couldn't happen.

 

[Hoping2]

Several times prior, here again, Mark 4:15, 1 John 3:8

Neither of those scriptures say what you want them to say.
Man commits the sins he will be destroyed for

Repentance doesn't make anyone sinless either

If the turn from sin is true, it will make one a non-sinner.
Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins will make you sinless.
Then it is up to us to remain in the light !

Thank God for scrip's like 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

 

[tdidymas]

No.

Do you really feel that God will justify anyone who continues to offend Him ?
I don't think so.

Here you evade the issue by adding the word "continues," which means that you assume I'm talking about someone after being born again. No, I'm not talking about that. I'm trying to find out what you think is the sequence of events that get a person to a converted state.

Do you really feel that there are faithful murderers, adulterers, liars, or thieves ?
I don't.

As that quickening occurs during our baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, (Rom 6:4), it won't happen until the baptism occurs.
Repentance from sin happens even before baptism. (Acts 2:38)

So then, you believe in baptismal regeneration, since you say the "quickening occurs during baptism." I know you're referring to Rom. 6, but it says "baptism unto death," not "baptism in water."

You also believe that true repentance is unregenerate man's ability, obviously by this response. Yet, Paul is clear that unregenerate man cannot repent from his heart in 1 Cor. 2:12-14, Rom. 7:14, Rom. 8:7, and implied elsewhere.

Jesus died for us before we even knew about repentance or baptism...when we were still dead in sins.
But until we do our part, His death won't help us at all.

You obviously think that "we do our part" happens before Christ's death helps us. So then, the work of repentance and baptism causes a person to be saved, born again, and Jesus' death helping us, according to your response here, correct? "We do our part", then somehow Christ's death helps us.

I know that Jesus died so I could be sanctified, justified, made clean, atoned for, set apart, reborn of the Spirit, and consecrated.
But until I did my part, those things couldn't happen.

And your part was - repent of your sins, be baptised, and anything else? And your sins were not atoned for, nor were you justified or sanctified in any way prior to you doing those things?