Fully Mature Universe

[LoriSaysHey2U]

Prayer that this pastor, Ray, rests in peace. I am wary of megachurches, but as long as his doctrine is sound, I might try some Maranatha music.

I agree. I'm also not in support of mega churches, but his church was mega before mega churches had bad names. Pastor Ray was a wonderful person and a great teacher. He got saved in the 70s at Chuck Smith's church here in San Diego, he and Pastor Mike McIntosh were saved at Pastor Chuck's church around the same time and were friends for a long time. We went to Pastor Mike's church for 5 years when my sons were teens. I volunteered in two wonderful ministries there, one called Silent Voices, we pursuaded young girls from having abortions, and also worked with the homeless Mike was homeless and on drugs before he got saved, so he had a heart for them. He rented out a Jr. High School for his church so it was a great facility to help them. Couple times a year, we'd go downtown and to the beaches to offer opportunites for the homeless. We'd take hundreds of them to the church for a free dinner, then take them to the pantry to get food, clothes, and many were hired to work at the church. They attended the service after dinner and so many would get saved by turning their lives over the the Lord Jesus. Wonderful program. I had many wonderful years there. My boys loved it because after the service, we'd always go to the cafeteria for lunch. Great home-cooked meals for cheap. That was a treat indeed! Such great memories there.

 

[AlexB23]

I agree. I'm also not in support of mega churches, but his church was mega before mega churches had bad names. Pastor Ray was a wonderful person and a great teacher. He got saved in the 70s at Chuck Smith's church here in San Diego, he and Pastor Mike McIntosh were saved at Pastor Chuck's church around the same time and were friends for a long time. We went to Pastor Mike's church for 5 years when my sons were teens. I volunteered in two wonderful ministries there, one called Silent Voices, we pursuaded young girls from having abortions, and also worked with the homeless Mike was homeless and on drugs before he got saved, so he had a heart for them. He rented out a Jr. High School for his church so it was a great facility to help them. Couple times a year, we'd go downtown and to the beaches to offer opportunites for the homeless. We'd take hundreds of them to the church for a free dinner, then take them to the pantry to get food, clothes, and many were hired to work at the church. They attended the service after dinner and so many would get saved by turning their lives over the the Lord Jesus. Wonderful program. I had many wonderful years there. My boys loved it because after the service, we'd always go to the cafeteria for lunch. Great home-cooked meals for cheap. That was a treat indeed! Such great memories there.

Goes to show how not all megachurches are bad. I will try out Marantha music. Which song do you recommend?

It is good that pastor Mike found God after going through a dark moment in his life, and that you served in ministries to help others through their dark moments.

 

[LoriSaysHey2U]

Goes to show how not all megachurches are bad. I will try out Marantha music. Which song do you recommend?

It is good that pastor Mike found God after going through a dark moment in his life, and that you served in ministries to help others through their dark moments.

So many that I love. Here's a good one to start with, "Here I Am to Worship". Know them all by heart.

 

[AlexB23]

So many that I love. Here's a good one to start with, "Here I Am to Worship". Know them all by heart.

Ooh, this is a cover of a Tim Hughes classic worship ballad from the turn of the century. I like the Marantha cover as well.

Tim Hughes' original version

 

[LoriSaysHey2U]

Ooh, this is a cover of a Tim Hughes classic worship ballad from the turn of the century. I like the Marantha cover as well.

Tim Hughes' original version

Beautiful rendition. Never heard of Hughes. Thanks for sharing.

 

[AlexB23]

Beautiful rendition. Never heard of Hughes. Thanks for sharing.

You are welcome. Glad to have introduced more Christian music to you.

Anyways, it is getting late, and I have church in 8 hours, so I hope you and your family have a blessed night, especially your son.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hmm... speaking the creation into existence is common in Nature? Creating a man from the dust, creating a woman from a rib, raising the dead upon a verbal command, instaneous healing, stopping the sun for a full day, ect. ect.?

Your comment has no connection to what I was addressing. Nature.

 

[FaithT]

I like both old hymns/songs and 1970s-2000s Christian music. Also, I am not sure if my church plays contemporary music, but I could ask the priest which Mass has the modern stuff. It is cool that your church has modern stuff.

Yeah it is.

 

[AlexB23]

Yeah it is.

We need some Phillips, Craig & Dean style Christian music in church, or other classics from a few decades ago.

 

[FaithT]

You are welcome. Glad to have introduced more Christian music to you.

Anyways, it is getting late, and I have church in 8 hours, so I hope you and your family have a blessed night, especially your son.

Prayer that this pastor, Ray, rests in peace. I am wary of megachurches, but as long as his doctrine is sound, I might try some Maranatha music.

Why are you wary of Megachurches?

 

[FaithT]

We need some Phillips, Craig & Dean style Christian music in church, or other classics from a few decades ago.

A poster mentioned the song Awesome God; it’s older but still in the Contemprary Christian genre. I love that song done my Michael W. Smith.

 

[AlexB23]

Why are you wary of Megachurches?

Cos of guys like Kenneth Copeland (the false doctrine of the prosperity Gospel) and Joel Osteen. But hey, not all megachurches are bad.

 

[AlexB23]

A poster mentioned the song Awesome God; it’s older but still in the Contemprary Christian genre. I love that song done my Michael W. Smith.

I love Awesome God. Michael W. Smith and Rich Mullens have both made good versions of the song. Rich Mullens wrote the original in 1988, while Michael W., Smith covered it over a decade later.

 

[FaithT]

Cos of guys like Kenneth Copeland (the false doctrine of the prosperity Gospel) and Joel Osteen. But hey, not all megachurches are bad.

Even though I’m Catholic I still watch Joel Osteen on occasion and occasionally read his books too.

 

[AlexB23]

Even though I’m Catholic I still watch Joel Osteen on occasion and occasionally read his books too.

Ooh, be careful. Lot of demonic stuff that comes from his teachings. As Catholics, we must not trust Osteen.

Mark 10:21-22 (NRSV-CE): "Jesus, looking at the man, loved him and said, 'You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.' When the man heard this, he was shocked and went away grieving, for he had many possessions."

 

[FaithT]

Ooh, be careful. Lot of demonic stuff that comes from his teachings. As Catholics, we must not trust Osteen.

Mark 10:21-22 (NRSV-CE): "Jesus, looking at the man, loved him and said, 'You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.' When the man heard this, he was shocked and went away grieving, for he had many possessions."

What demonic stuff?

 

[AlexB23]

What demonic stuff?

Prosperity gospel = teaching from Satan. We are done here. God bless.

 

[CoreyD]

The Bible says in Romans that death entered the world through sin. Now even if you believe that only relates to man's death or a spiritual death of some sort, which I do don't... I do believe this: The garden of Eden and its contents (animals, insects, humans) were all designed for eternity. Had Adam not sinned against God, he would be very much alive today. Now we also know God provided trees to eat from, so obviously plants will be eaten to sustain creatures. But I do not think in the Garden Pre-Fall, plants or fruits would grow rotten or spoil.

If you are referring to Romans 5:12, you picked the right scripture.
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned.

Here, the Bible tells us, through whom sin entered the world - man, and to whom death was passed - men.
The defect was in Adam. Not animals.
The defect was passed on to all of Adam's offspring, which are not animals. No. We are not apes.

I believe this, because the Bible says it. not because of personal feelings. Why don't you believe it?
If I believe that Adam would have been able to breath under water like a fish, that does not mean it is true, does it?
If someone believes something, simply on the basis that theu believe it, that does not make it true, does it?

I've met Pastors who don't really believe the bible is true.
You are not one of those, I hope.
Do you believe the Bible tells us what is, and what is not, and, we should believe what the Bible tells us?

Jesus died for mankind. Not animals. John 3:16
Do you also believe this?

After sin entered the world, the whole universe began to groan, we age now, only because of the curse of sin. Same with animals.

Do you have a scripture that says the whole universe began to groan?
Romans 8:19 says, The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God.
Surely, you do not think the universe is waiting in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God... Do you?

In evolution, billions and billions of animals died before mankind arrived on the scene, and that is counter to the Biblical narrative.

Can you please tell me which Biblical narrative you are referring to.

Remember, you only believe this, because a man named Charles Darwin once walked the earth.

Keith... Me?
Strange that you would say this.
I do not even believe in Charles Darwin's idea.

I believe the Bible. The Bible does not say animals would live forever. God promised Adam that if he ate of the tree of life, he would die.
I have not read any account that says animals were promised, or given everlasting life. have you?

 

[PastorKeith]

If you are referring to Romans 5:12, you picked the right scripture.
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned.

Here, the Bible tells us, through whom sin entered the world - man, and to whom death was passed - men.
The defect was in Adam. Not animals.
The defect was passed on to all of Adam's offspring, which are not animals. No. We are not apes.

I believe this, because the Bible says it. not because of personal feelings. Why don't you believe it?
If I believe that Adam would have been able to breath under water like a fish, that does not mean it is true, does it?
If someone believes something, simply on the basis that theu believe it, that does not make it true, does it?

I've met Pastors who don't really believe the bible is true.
You are not one of those, I hope.
Do you believe the Bible tells us what is, and what is not, and, we should believe what the Bible tells us?

Jesus died for mankind. Not animals. John 3:16
Do you also believe this?


Do you have a scripture that says the whole universe began to groan?
Romans 8:19 says, The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God.
Surely, you do not think the universe is waiting in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God... Do you?


Can you please tell me which Biblical narrative you are referring to.


Keith... Me?
Strange that you would say this.
I do not even believe in Charles Darwin's idea.

I believe the Bible. The Bible does not say animals would live forever. God promised Adam that if he ate of the tree of life, he would die.
I have not read any account that says animals were promised, or given everlasting life. have you?

Sin affected ALLLLLLL of creation. Why do you think animals get cancer? It is the curse of sin. In the Garden of eden before sin, everything was perfect, there was no sickness, or disease.

“For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now” (Rom 8:20-22)

Even the ground was cursed.... not just man, EVERYTHING.

In Genesis 3:17-18 we read:
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

We also know the whole creation is cursed because God said He is going to burn it all away and create a new Heavens and Earth

2 Peter 3:10–13
"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells."

In Genesis, animals were created first to be companions/helpers of Adam. In Revelation John describes a vision of an Army of White Horses coming down from Heaven. If animals were part of the Original creation on Earth, they will be a big part of the New Earth. Why would God remove animals from eternity? His animal creations are glorious, of course they will be in Heaven. And I don't believe they will die.... there is no more need for death in Heaven.

 

[David Lamb]

If animals were part of the Original creation on Earth, they will be a big part of the New Earth. Why would God remove animals from eternity? His animal creations are glorious, of course they will be in Heaven. And I don't believe they will die.... there is no more need for death in Heaven.

Where in the bible do we read of animals being in heaven? I agree with the rest of your post but not the part about animals in heaven.