SALVATION

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

The highlighted portion isn’t a mark because it’s not something that is noticeable.

It is noticeable. I can see whether I'm forgiven or not. The fact that you can't see it makes no difference. Same is true of the new man that Christ created in me when He came to live in my heart. I can see it, but you can't see it. Same is true for Christ living in me. I can see Him inside my heart, but you can't see Him in my heart.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

I’m not sure what your point is here.

Judging other people's salvation by their deeds is shallow and superficial. You can't see into their hearts to determin whether Christ lives in there or not.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It is noticeable. I can see whether I'm forgiven or not. The fact that you can't see it makes no difference. Same is true of the new man that Christ created in me when He came to live in my heart. I can see it, but you can't see it. Same is true for Christ living in me. I can see Him inside my heart, but you can't see Him in my heart.

I would have to know you in order to observe any change in your behavior unless you were just indulging in ungodly activities then it would be obvious.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Judging other people's salvation by their deeds is shallow and superficial. You can't see into their hearts to determin whether Christ lives in there or not.

It depends on the sin they’re committing. I’m pretty sure we can safely say that the Uvalde Elementary School shooter was probably not born again whereas smaller offenses might not be as easy to determine. It also has a lot to do with how the person reacts to their own sin. You can’t just put a single law on it for all sin and all people in all situations, each offense has its own level of evidence and how the person reacts to their sin is also a determining factor.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

It depends on the sin they’re committing. I’m pretty sure we can safely say that the Uvalde Elementary School shooter was probably not born again whereas smaller offenses might not be as easy to determine. It also has a lot to do with how the person reacts to their own sin. You can’t just put a single law on it for all sin and all people in all situations, each offense has its own level of evidence and how the person reacts to their sin is also a determining factor.

The only one's judgement about a person's salvation that matters is the Lord's. And His is the only judgement that is righteous.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The only one's judgement about a person's salvation that matters is the Lord's. And His is the only judgement that is righteous.

I don’t see how this is relevant to the discussion. Are you trying to say that we can’t know that evil people aren’t saved?

 

[Clare73]

You say I don’t understand them yet you’re the one saying that tares are in Christ?

Assertion without demonstration is assertion without merit.

 

[AbbaLove]

I’m not sure what your point is here.

You left out the most critical part. Salvation and the righteousness it necessitates is impossible apart from God, apart from grace, apart form the Holy Spirit. That's why the heart of the new Covenant is reconciliation and communion with God first before all else.

IOW none are righteous by their own well-intentioned good works (secular humanism), but rather being led of God such that others know the "good works" were prepared for us by God for His chosen to accomplish with His leading ...

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10)​

Anyone know how God decides who are His chosen that will inherit SALVATION?

You've probably heard that someone that we think doesn't deserve Salvation may receive Salvation. Then some charasmtic churchgoer that we look up to may not receive eternal life.

Paul says, "Work out your Salvation with fear and trembling." So how does one work out their Salvation?

is there any faithful [saved] churchgoer that has an idea what Paul is talking about as it pertains to their own SALVATION? Especially a goodie twoshoes that grewup in church since a babe with faithful weekly church-going parents.

When i was a fundamental Baptist many years ago if our family missed a Sunday someone was sure to comeup to us next week and say/inquire "We missed you last Sunday" wanting to know what was so important that we weren't able to attend. As if they are more faithful.

“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord." Jer 31:33-34

You do realize those verses are referring to God's chosen Hebrew people.

 

[fhansen]

Then that means the ancient churches agree with me that obeying the commandments is not the mark of being a true Chriastian; it is having the forgiveness of Christ for breaking the commandments that is the mark of being a true Christian.

Not at all. In fact, the very early church, pretty much across the board wherever it had been established, believed that there was no repentance possible for a believer who'd fallen back into grave/serious sin after conversion to the faith: adultery, murder, etc, and there are at least a handful of biblical verses to support this position. I mentioned this matter previously in this thread. Anyway, those believers had turned away from sin/the world and to God and had given up much to do so, often including their lives. Sin was definitely looked upon differently than some modern theologies would have it now. An early bishop of the church managed to turn that rigorist ship around based on a fuller understanding of the goodness, mercy, and love of God even though this happened amidst much heated controversy and took much time to become universally accepted in the church. Sin remained a serious matter even then so the penitent would remain outside the fold for quite some time until it was felt that they were truly sincere by their penance and lives, but it was understood that any sin could be repented of-and God would forgive.

A problem is that newer theologies don't seem to know for sure what to do about sin, because they consider justification to be nothing more that a reprieve from the penalty of sin past, present, and future, as long as one believes. They must either become antinomian with a belief that wanton sin doesn't matter (apparently already a threat in the new testament), or come up with a scenario whereby a "true believer" or born again person simply won't sin because they're guaranteed that by God. And yet the same problem arises there because few believe that perfect sinlessness is possible in this life so the line must still be drawn somewhere between wanton sin being allowable and God keeping us from sin "sufficiently". The historic church didn't shrink away from drawing that line, which I'll explain later. Anyway, the idea that forgiveness of sin is automatic and makes sin "ok" for a believer, so to speak, as if the new covenant was all about us remaining as we already are, was never the understanding of the ancient churches. Justification meant becoming a new creation, with a new heart and spirit: forgiven of sin, cleansed of sin, and now enabled by grace to overcome future sin, finally, the right way, God's way. Sin can still lead to death all over again which is why Scripture warns us that sinners don't enter heaven and outlines examples of those deeds of the flesh in Gal 5 and Rev 21 & 22, for example. And John tells us that sin is lawlessness. So what of the law?

Paul objected to the idea that works of the law could make us holy, could justify us, whether the removal of a little piece of flesh from the body or the mere external observance of the moral law, which he excelled at as a Pharisee but counted as garbage now. Read Romans in light of the fact that a believer is freely given the gift of righteousness and must now live accordingly. I'd suggest reading the following carefully and objectively, starting with Philippians first:

"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9

"But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." Rom 3:21-22

"And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us." Rom 5:5

"For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!" Rom 5:17

"When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life." Rom 6:20-22

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God." Rom 8:1-4, 12-14

"Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." Rom 13:110

In light of this change to be made in us that we must nurture and cooperate with as we remain in Him, we can understand such passages as the following in their context, in their plain reading:

"To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life." Rom 2:7

"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom 2:13

"Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." Heb 12:14

"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God." Matt 5:8

"For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Matt 5:20

"If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” Matt 19:17

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean." Matt 23:25-26

"But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." Matt 6:15

“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." Rev 22:12-15

"Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God." 1 John 3: 7-9

So the church has taught that some sins are so intrinsically at odds with and opposed to God and His nature, opposed to love of God and neighbor while destroying love in us, that, if persisted in, lead to death. They constitute a choice for evil to the extent that they are committed deliberately and with full knowledge. We cannot and should not expect those sins to keep us in a reconciled state with God; we'd be mocking Him (Gal 6:7). So they distinguished between those sins and lighter sins that tend towards distancing us from God but do not, in themselves, constitute a turning away from Him where a complete change of heart would be necessitated. To me that's the only honest way I've seen of understanding and dealing with the matter of sin.

And of course we must keep the commandments; they are holy, spiritual, right, and good according to Rom 7. And this is why virtually every mainstream Christian denomination continued to hold them up as critical. The problem is that while the commandments can truthfully tell us what righteousness "looks like", they cannot cause it in us; only union with God can do so. And that union is why Jesus came as it's the basis and source of restored justice/righteousness for man who is made for communion with God and who is lost, sick, wounded, dead if apart from Him- and woefully unable to maintain the moral integrity he was made to have and which the law only reflects. God created no one to be a sinner. So the law became a teacher, convicting of sin rather than being able to overcome it. It points to the fact that something is missing in us-and that "something" is God, Himself.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

I don’t see how this is relevant to the discussion. Are you trying to say that we can’t know that evil people aren’t saved?

I'm lost too. I think it has to do with people who feel the need to judge other peoples' salvation based on their actions. Actually, it's more than that. It's about people who think that the quantity and quality of a person's sins is the determining factor for them to judge whether or not God has forgiven that person's sins... as if what they think has any bearing on the status of the other person's salvation.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Not at all. In fact, the very early church, pretty much across the board wherever it had been established, believed that there was no repentance possible for a believer who'd fallen back into grave/serious sin after conversion to the faith: adultery, murder, etc, and there are at least a handful of biblical verses to support this position. I mentioned this matter previously in this thread. Anyway, those believers had turned away from sin/the world and to God and had given up much to do so, often including their lives. Sin was definitely looked upon differently than with some modern theologies would have it now. An early bishop of the church managed to turn that rigorist ship around based on a fuller understanding of the goodness, mercy, and love of God even though this happened amidst much heated controversy and took much time to become universally accepted in the church. Sin remained a serious matter even then so the penitent would remain outside the fold for quite some time until it was felt that they were truly sincere by their penance and lives, but it was understood that any sin could be repented of-and God would forgive.

A problem is that newer theologies don't seem to know for sure what to do about sin, because they consider justification to be nothing more that a reprieve from the penalty of sin past, present, and future, as long as one believes. They must either become antinomian with a belief that wanton sin doesn't matter (apparently already a threat in the new testament), or come up with a scenario whereby a "true believer" or born again person simply won't sin because they're guaranteed that by God. And yet the same problem arises there because few believe that perfect sinlessness is possible in this life so the line must still be drawn somewhere between wanton sin being allowable and God keeping us from sin "sufficiently". The historic church didn't shrink away from drawing that line, which I'll explain later. Anyway, the idea that forgiveness of sin is automatic and makes sin "ok" for a believer, so to speak, as if the new covenant was all about remaining as we already are, was never the understanding of the ancient churches. Justification meant becoming a new creation, with a new heart and spirit: forgiven of sin, cleansed of sin, and now enabled by grace to overcome future sin, finally, the right way, God's way. Sin can still lead to death all over again which is why Scripture warns us that sinners don't enter heaven and outlines examples of those deeds of the flesh in Gal 5 and Rev 21 & 22, for example. And John tells us that sin is lawlessness. So what of the law?

Paul objected to the idea that works of the law could make us holy, could justify us, whether the removal of a little piece of flesh from the body or the mere external observance of the moral law, which he excelled at as a Pharisee but counted as garbage now. Read Romans in light of the fact that a believer is freely given the gift of righteousness and must now live accordingly. I'd suggest reading the following carefully and objectively, starting with Philippians first:

"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9

"But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." Rom 3:21-22

"And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us." Rom 5:5

"For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!" Rom 5:17

"When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life." Rom 6:20-22

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God." Rom 8:1-4, 12-14

"Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." Rom 13:110

In light of this change to be made in us that we must nurture and cooperate with as we remain in Him, we can understand such passages as the following in their context, in their plain reading:

"To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life." Rom 2:7

"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom 2:13

"Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." Heb 12:14

"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God." Matt 5:8

"For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Matt 5:20

"If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” Matt 19:17

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean." Matt 23:25-26

"But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." Matt 6:15

“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." Rev 22:12-15

"Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God." 1 John 3: 7-9

So the church has taught that some sins are so intrinsically at odds with and opposed to God and His nature, opposed to love of God and neighbor while destroying love in us, that, if persisted in, lead to death. They constitute a choice for evil to the extent that they are committed deliberately and with full knowledge. We cannot and should not expect those sins to keep us in a reconciled state with God; we'd be mocking Him (Gal 6:7). So they distinguished between those sins and lighter sins that tend towards distancing us from God but do not, in themselves, constitute a turning away from Him where a complete change of heart would be necessitated. To me that's the only honest way I've seen of understanding and dealing with the matter of sin.

And of course we must keep the commandments; they are holy, spiritual, right, and good according to Rom 7. And this is why virtually every mainstream Christian denomination continued to hold then up as critical. The problem is that while they can truthfully tell us what righteousness "looks like", they cannot cause it in us; only union with God can do so. And that union is why Jesus came as it's the basis and source of restored justice/righteousness for man who is made for communion with God and who is lost, sick, wounded, dead if apart from Him- and woefully unable to maintain the moral integrity he was made to have and which the law reflects. God created no one to be a sinner. So the law became a teacher, convicting of sin rather than being able to overcome it. It points to the fact that something is missing in us-and that "something" is God. Himself.

I'm not going to read all that. Please be pithy.

 

[fhansen]

I'm not going to read all that. Please respect my time and be pithy.

Can't blame you, I knew it was quite wordy but some things just can't be put pithily-I looked it up; it's a word!

Anyway, maybe I can sum it up with a teaching I've come to appreciate:

"At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love."

That might sound too pithy, but, properly understood, that statement is incomparably profound while summing up the gospel. We cannot love as we should apart from the love and grace of God. That kind of love will obey God, will oppose and exclude sin, and will act, for the good of others, by its nature, willingly.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Can't blame you, I knew it was quite wordy but some things just can't be put pithily-I looked it up; it's a word!

Anyway, maybe I can sum it up with a teaching I've come to appreciate:

"At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love."

That might sound too pithy, but, properly understood, that statement is incomparably profound while summing up the gospel. We cannot love as we should apart from the love and grace of God. That kind of love will obey God, will oppose and exclude sin, and will act, for the good of others, by its nature, willingly.

Thank you. I revised my original post because it sounded too selfish after I read it. You responded kindly to the selfish original version.

 

[setst777]

Let's break this down a bit.

• "salvation is... a turning away from the world and sin and turning to God",
• "salvation is... inseparable from becoming righteous and living accordingly",
• "salvation is... doing good, overcoming sin, obeying the commandments, etc", and
• salvation is not... "to persistently live in obvious, grave sin"

Am I wrong to conclude that salvation is performance-based (in ancient church teachings)?

We all agree that salvation is by faith, not by works. However, a true Gospel Faith by which God saves us always includes repentance (2 Corinthians 7:10), which is also stated by Lord Jesus in the Great Commission (Luke 24:44-47), and of which God commands all people everywhere to do lest they be judged and condemned (Acts 17:30-32), and of which Baptism represents - a baptism in which the sinner commits to being a disciple, following Him (Matthew 28:19-20) to share in His resurrection (Romans 6:1-8).

This is the only Faith by which we may be cleansed of any sins the true believers do commit in weakness.

1 John 1:6-7 (WEB) 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and don’t tell the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

Therefore, a Gospel Faith, by which God has chosen to save us, always includes a commitment to renounce sin, and then, to follow Lord Jesus into a sanctified life of righteousness and love.

1 John 2:3-6 (WEB) 3 This is how we know that we know him: if we keep his commandments. 4 One who says, “I know him,” and doesn’t keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn’t in him. 5 But God’s love has most certainly been perfected in whoever keeps his word. This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.

Those who do not manifest their faith in good deeds are counterfeit Christians (Matthew 25:31-46).

Sure, such counterfeit Christians may truly believe the Gospel, they believe everything about Lord Jesus, but they refuse to repent to commit their lives to be His disciples - followers. And Lord Jesus will only save those whose faith is manifested in listening to him and following him (John 10:27-28).

The Faith of the Gospel, therefore, is a faith onto good works, obeying all things Lord Jesus commands of us (Matthew 28:19-20). and is the only "faith" by which God's Spirit will indwell anyone to give them life.

John 14:15-16 (WEB) 15 If you love me, keep my commandments. 16 I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever: 17 the Spirit of truth

John 14:23 (WEB) 23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him.

Acts 5:32 (WEB) 32 We are his witnesses of these things; and so also is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.

Even if born-again Christians should start again to deliberately continue living unsanctified lives in any sin or sins, they show that they have rejected the faith, rejected God, and rejected the Spirit dwelling in them - and they will be condemned.

1 Thessalonians 4:1-8 (WEB) Finally then, brothers, we beg and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God, that you abound more and more. 2 For you know what instructions we gave you through the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God: your sanctification, that you abstain from sexual immorality, 4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in sanctification and honor, 5 not in the passion of lust, even as the Gentiles who don’t know God, 6 that no one should take advantage of and wrong a brother or sister in this matter; because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as also we forewarned you and testified. 7 For God called us not for uncleanness, but in sanctification. 8 Therefore he who rejects this doesn’t reject man, but God, who has also given his Holy Spirit to you.

Galatians 5:24-25 (NIV) 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

That is The Faith of the Gospel by which God elects to save anyone by His grace.

 

[fhansen]

IOW none are righteous by their own well-intentioned good works (secular humanism),

Yes, or by Pelagianism to put it another way. It's interesting to me that for posterity the church officially formulated and laid down its doctrines on the absolute necessity of grace in order to move and turn a man to God some 15 centuries ago, in 529 AD at a small council, the canons of which were later sanctioned. It was primarily based on the writings of two people, a monk and, especially, those of Augustine which he wrote about 75 years earlier stemming from his battle against Pelagianism.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10)
Anyone know how God decides who are His chosen that will inherit SALVATION?

You've probably heard that someone that we think doesn't deserve Salvation may receive Salvation. Then some charasmtic churchgoer that we look up to may not receive eternal life.

Paul says, "Work out your Salvation with fear and trembling." So how does one work out their Salvation?

is there any faithful [saved] churchgoer that has an idea what Paul is talking about as it pertains to their own SALVATION? Especially a goodie twoshoes that grewup in church since a babe with faithful weekly church-going parents.

When i was a fundamental Baptist many years ago if our family missed a Sunday someone was sure to comeup to us next week and say/inquire "We missed you last Sunday" wanting to know what was so important that we weren't able to attend. As if they are more faithful.

The surest evidence that one is a child of God is by their love, which does the right thing by its nature. Paul knew it -and John certainly agrees in his letters. I really appreciate the words of Basil of Caesarea, a 4th century bishop:

“If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.”

You do realize those verses are referring to God's chosen Hebrew people.

I realize that the church has considered the promises to the chosen people to now be open to all; Jewish and Gentile believers alike are "heirs of the promises". That was the plan from the beginning.

 

[Jo555]

Just stopped in to say hi.

Salvation is not by believing in God. . .Orthodox Jews believe in God and are not saved.

Salvation is only by faith in and trust on Jesus, the Christ, and his atoning work for the remission of one's sin, which saves from God's judgment/wrath. (Eph 2:8-9, Ro 5:9)

Righteousness (justification) follows salvation by faith only, it being imputed (credited) to one by that faith, as it was imputed to Abraham by faith (Ge 15::6, Ro 3:28, 4:1-4).

Righteousness (sanctification) is the result and necessary proof of saving faith (Ro 6:16).

Checking in and thought to myself, ah, what am i doing here, you got this. Too time consuming right now for me and have nothing new to say, but still loving the dress, and hairdo. Hate to miss a good party, but I'm still sobering up.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Anyone know how God decides who are His chosen that will inherit SALVATION?

He chooses them according to His foreknowledge of those who will abide in Christ and endure to the end.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I'm lost too. I think it has to do with people who feel the need to judge other peoples' salvation based on their actions. Actually, it's more than that. It's about people who think that the quantity and quality of a person's sins is the determining factor for them to judge whether or not God has forgiven that person's sins... as if what they think has any bearing on the status of the other person's salvation.

You will know them by their fruits. Those are Jesus’ words.

 

[Clare73]

He chooses them according to His foreknowledge of those who will abide in Christ and endure to the end.

God's foreknowledge is that no one will or can abide in Christ apart from his enablement, and
all those he enables will do so.
God completes all he "begins."

 

[BNR32FAN]

God's foreknowledge is that no one will or can abide in Christ apart from his enablement, and
all those he enables will do so.
God completes all he "begins."

You don’t know anything about the word of God. You’re too blinded by your doctrines to comprehend it. When you have to resort to such madness as to say that satan joins people to Christ in order to hang on to your doctrines that’s a clear indication that you’ve completely lost the ability to comprehend God’s word.