UK will extradite Americans for social media posts

[eleos1954]

This is a rather bold statement .... can they do this? What do you think about this?

UK police commissioner threatens to extradite and jail US citizens over social media posts: 'We will come after you' | Fox News Video

 

[AlexB23]

This is a rather bold statement .... can they do this? What do you think about this?

UK police commissioner threatens to extradite and jail US citizens over social media posts: 'We will come after you' | Fox News Video

Well, I do not have a copy of UK law on my computer, but if the social media posts are of violent threats, then some form of fine or punishment might be necessary.

Yo, @Larniavc , can you explain the UK law?

 

[eleos1954]

Well, I do not have a copy of UK law on my computer, but if the social media posts are of violent threats, then some form of fine or punishment might be necessary.

Yo, @Larniavc , can you explain the UK law?

In the US ... supposedly ...

Under current First Amendment jurisprudence, hate speech can only be criminalized when it directly incites imminent criminal activity or consists of specific threats of violence targeted against a person or group.

So, just questioning some things .... if the UK or any other country takes action (relating to the OP- extradition) then which country's "laws" prevail?

So ... extradition ... here is a link ... it is Wikipedia though so is not necessarily totally accurate but non the less ...

Extradition - Wikipedia

We are living in very strange times.

 

[AlexB23]

In the US ... supposedly ...

Under current First Amendment jurisprudence, hate speech can only be criminalized when it directly incites imminent criminal activity or consists of specific threats of violence targeted against a person or group.

So, just questioning some things .... if the UK or any other country takes action (relating to the OP- extradition) then which country's "laws" prevail?

So ... extradition ... here is a link ... it is Wikipedia though so is not necessarily totally accurate but non the less ...

Extradition - Wikipedia

We are living in very strange times.

Well, I am not familiar with the details of laws, especially foreign law, hence why I invited Larniavc here, as he is from the UK. If the UK extradites someone to the US, then the US law applies. But, does the UK law require a US citizen to get extradited to the US for posts on social media? Also, what defines a post that is unacceptable?

Would saying "The King of England is a dictator, the UK needs Queen Elizabeth to be resurrected." be grounds for extradition? (This is just a hypothetical example, though I do not feel that the king or queen are dictators).

 

[eleos1954]

Well, I am not familiar with the details of laws, especially foreign law, hence why I invited Larniavc here, as he is from the UK. If the UK extradites someone to the US, then the US law applies. But, does the UK law require a US citizen to get extradited to the US for posts on social media? Also, what defines a post that is unacceptable?

Would saying "The King of England is a dictator, the UK needs Queen Elizabeth to be resurrected." be grounds for extradition? (This is just a hypothetical example, though I do not feel that the king or queen are dictators).

Also, what defines a post that is unacceptable?

Yes and who decides if a post is unacceptable or not?

I Iook forward to Larniavc's response

 

[durangodawood]

Video is very short on specifics.

Anything more in depth.... preferably written?

 

[AlexB23]

Yes and who decides if a post is unacceptable or not?

I Iook forward to Larniavc's response

I am not sure who decides this. If a Tory official decides a Labor party's post is unacceptable, or a Labor party official decides that a Tory's post is unacceptable, then there is bound to be bias. Ideally, a board made of equally of 33.3% Labor, 33.3% Moderates and 33.3% Tories could decide which posts are unacceptable or not, in order to reduce bias.

 

[Tuur]

Maybe I overlooked it, but if an American is on UK soil, then he or she is subject to UK law. If, however, an American is on US soil and says something that gets someone in the UK's knickers in a bunch, then the American is subject to US, not UK law. What London's police commissioner is arguing is that the UK has the right to subject US citizens to UK law even when a US citizen is on US soil. The closest thing that comes to mind is the British navy seizing sailors on US vessels to serve in the Royal Navy. That was one of the things that led to the War of 1812.

The situation seems similar to the pirate radio ships that broadcast rock and roll into the UK. The ships were anchored in international waters outside UK jurisdiction. The UK passed a law forbidding UK advertising on the broadcasts. Though the broadcasts would have been illegal on UK soil, they weren't originating in the UK and the UK could not extradite. Whether they could arrest those involved if they set foot on UK soil I don't know. It would probably be a good idea for Americans just not to go to the UK.

The real question is if the Biden or Harris administrations would be willing to assist the UK in their effort to seize US citizens for something said on US soil.

 

[Richard T]

Yes and who decides if a post is unacceptable or not?

I Iook forward to Larniavc's response

Well at least the Sex Pistols "God save the queen she ain't a human being" did not trigger anything.

 

[AlexB23]

Well at least the Sex Pistols "God save the queen she ain't a human being" did not trigger anything.

Times have changed, my brother. Now everything, even mundane things, could be a trigger to folks.

 

[Yuwang]

Well, I do not have a copy of UK law on my computer, but if the social media posts are of violent threats, then some form of fine or punishment might be necessary.

Yo, @Larniavc , can you explain the UK law?

Is that British guru talking about Americans in America or those posting in Britain?

 

[AlexB23]

Is that British guru talking about Americans in America or those posting in Britain?

I am not sure. @Larniavc lives in the UK. He might have knowledge about the UK law.

 

[Larniavc]

Yo, @Larniavc , can you explain the UK law?

Yeah, you can go to jail for posting hate speech and incitement to violence. It’s the Judges decision but you can definitely suffer the consequences if for example you posted hate speech on Facebook.

“Any communication which is threatening or abusive, and is intended to harass, alarm, or distress someone is forbidden.[5] The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both.[6]”

Hate speech laws in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

One of the things I like about my country is that words have consequences.

 

[AlexB23]

Yeah, you can go to jail for posting hate speech and incitement to violence. It’s the Judges decision but you can definitely suffer the consequences if for example you posted hate speech on Facebook.

“Any communication which is threatening or abusive, and is intended to harass, alarm, or distress someone is forbidden.[5] The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both.[6]”

Hate speech laws in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

One of the things I like about my country is that words have consequences.

Thank you for your input. I do agree that folks who make threats or racist comments should go to jail, or get slapped with a fine. Could a judge send someone who says "The Tories suck" or "The Labor party sucks" on Facebook to jail? That would be a harsh sentence for saying a political party is not good.

 

[Larniavc]

Would saying "The King of England is a dictator, the UK needs Queen Elizabeth to be resurrected."

It would not. If the interlocutor repeatedly posted anti Royal messages that were incitement to do violence it would almost certainly provoke a response.

My guess that the office of the King would politely request the American government take care of it. That’s about the level of influence the UK has over America.

If it was 150 years ago I imagine it would be very different. But it’s not, fortunately.

 

[Larniavc]

Thank you for your input. I do agree that folks who make threats or racist comments should go to jail, or get slapped with a fine. Could a judge send someone who says "The Tories suck" or "The Labor party sucks" on Facebook to jail? That would be a harsh sentence for saying a political party is not good.

That certainly wouldn’t happen. It’s not hate speech of a protected class. Even chanting ‘Charles is w*****’ would’’t get you in trouble ( you might get a talking to by an over zealous copper but it’d never go anywhere.

 

[AlexB23]

It would not. If the interlocutor repeatedly posted anti Royal messages that were incitement to do violence it would almost certainly provoke a response.

My guess that the office of the King would politely request the American government take care of it. That’s about the level of influence the UK has over America.

If it was 150 years ago I imagine it would be very different. But it’s not, fortunately.

I understand. So, saying a leader is bad is not grounds for extradition, but incitement of violence is.

In summary, it seems that the UK law is fair in this regard.

 

[AlexB23]

That certainly wouldn’t happen. It’s not hate speech of a protected class. Even chanting ‘Charles is w*****’ would’’t get you in trouble ( you might get a talking to by an over zealous copper but it’d never go anywhere.

Good, just making sure. It seems that @eleos1954 has his answer. The UK has fair extradition laws.

 

[Tuur]

I understand. So, saying a leader is bad is not grounds for extradition, but incitement of violence is.

In summary, it seems that the UK law is fair in this regard.

Not if it's applied to a non-UK citizen for words uttered on non-UK soil. That's the point.

 

[Yuwang]

Thank you for your input. I do agree that folks who make threats or racist comments should go to jail, or get slapped with a fine. Could a judge send someone who says "The Tories suck" or "The Labor party sucks" on Facebook to jail? That would be a harsh sentence for saying a political party is not good.

All the responses were good and proper. As for the British officials, they have a long history of hate speech and mass murder.
Funny thing is that USA lawyers are called Esquires, which is a title of British nobility, I suspect they would give a Yankee a poor defense.
The War of 1812 was fought because Congress passed a Constitutional Amendment to ban lawyers (Esquires) from public office. Washington was burned along with the amendment. And very few people will mention it.