Trump tells Christians their 'religion will be in tatters' if Biden wins: 'We answer to God in Heaven'

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Beliefs are what they are, beliefs. Facts are what they are facts. Most people believe that proven facts are true but people also have beliefs that have nothing to do with proven facts. So, a belief is true if it is supported by facts and a belief not based on proven fact is a personal opinion which may or may not be true.

So all laws must be scientifically factual?

 

[Adam56]

Yes

Abortion is common in the black community. Black women get it more than any race due to being poor. I don’t think that makes it excusable though. Trying to reconcile being a leftist and Catholic by saying abortion is just a secular law not a religious matter is plain wrong.

 

[BPPLEE]

Keep judging others if it makes you feel better.

I’m not judging, I just recognize that you’ve bought into a false narrative.

 

[FaithT]

Trump is lying. He will say anything to get elected.

And just when I think he’s said it all he comes up with something else stupid to say.

 

[RileyG]

Well, has he passed any laws about it? Has he paid for one? Then he hasn't committed the sin of abortion. Maybe YOU should go to confession for passing judgment on a fellow believer when it's not your place to do so. As the Bible says "judge not lest you be judged." Especially when he never actually participated in an abortion.

I'm not passing judgment on him or his soul. Just on his actions.

Thank you for reminding me. I'm a sinner in need of much grace.

 

[iarwain]

I think you are buying into propaganda with that statement but I understand how typical that is for members of the Trump cult.

Why are you bringing out the insults? If you have proof that the Democratic platform supports a specific restriction on abortion, show it.
I am a Christian, not a member of any cult. Nor do I really consider myself a Trump supporter, but I find him favorable to the Democratic party. As I have said many times, there are things I like about Trump, and things I don't like about him. But there is nothing I like about the left wing ideology and policies of the Biden administration.

 

[iarwain]

Trying to reconcile being a leftist and Catholic by saying abortion is just a secular law not a religious matter is plain wrong.

I also wonder about the veracity of a faith that allows you to abandon its values so you can support the nation being a secular one. Would you vote to encourage adultery (for example) in the culture just because it's secular?

Anyway, I don't see abortion as strictly a religious issue. The issue is how much do your respect life?

 

[Michie]

I'm not passing judgment on him or his soul. Just on his actions.

Thank you for reminding me. I'm a sinner in need of much grace.

We are called to righteous judgement by the fruits of an individuals’s actions but the judgement we are warned about includes eternal destination and judgement without mercy.

It's Okay for Catholics to Judge

When faced with the immoral behavior of loved ones, it's not just permitted, but crucial to judge—as long as you judge justly.

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Judging Others

DAY 269 CHALLENGE “Christians shouldn’t criticize others’ lifestyles or actions. Didn’t Jesus say not to judge?” DEFENSE Jesus didn’t tell us that we shou...

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Are Christians hypocritical when they judge people?

Aren’t Christians hypocritical when they judge people, since Jesus said, “Don’t judge”? Trent Horn addresses this question here.

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Etc.

 

[Apple Sky]

I personally would elect Trump as I think he has been chosen by God for his role as President.

 

[RileyG]

We are called to righteous judgement by the fruits of an individuals’s actions but the judgement we are warned about includes eternal destination and judgement without mercy.

It's Okay for Catholics to Judge

When faced with the immoral behavior of loved ones, it's not just permitted, but crucial to judge—as long as you judge justly.

www.catholic.com

Judging Others

DAY 269 CHALLENGE “Christians shouldn’t criticize others’ lifestyles or actions. Didn’t Jesus say not to judge?” DEFENSE Jesus didn’t tell us that we shou...

www.catholic.com

Are Christians hypocritical when they judge people?

Aren’t Christians hypocritical when they judge people, since Jesus said, “Don’t judge”? Trent Horn addresses this question here.

www.catholic.com

Etc.

Thank you

 

[rturner76]

So all laws must be scientifically factual?

No, all facts must be proven by the scientific method. Meaning they need to be proven by factual data that is repeatable.

 

[rturner76]

Abortion is common in the black community. Black women get it more than any race due to being poor. I don’t think that makes it excusable though. Trying to reconcile being a leftist and Catholic by saying abortion is just a secular law not a religious matter is plain wrong.

We are in control of our behavior as Catholics. Meaning it doesn't matter if abortion is legal or not in the life of a Catholic because as Catholics we will neither have abortions nor pay for them. How other people behave who do not share our morals is not within our control. If someone is willing to stain their soul by having an abortion, it is their stan and we are not in a position to control them. The fact that a fetus does not an independent life until it draws breath, is the reason secular law may permit it.

 

[rturner76]

I'm not passing judgment on him or his soul. Just on his actions.

Thank you for reminding me. I'm a sinner in need of much grace.

We all are in need of grace and no person is perfect. I think where we disagree is is when I separate my or our personal morality from that of the secular world. We can control our own actions but I don't believe we can force our morality on a godless government that is elected by people of differing morals. I also know I am a sinner and in need of grace and I would never pay for a woman's abortion or tell them it's a good option.

 

[Adam56]

We are in control of our behavior as Catholics. Meaning it doesn't matter if abortion is legal or not in the life of a Catholic because as Catholics we will neither have abortions nor pay for them. How other people behave who do not share our morals is not within our control. If someone is willing to stain their soul by having an abortion, it is their stan and we are not in a position to control them. The fact that a fetus does not an independent life until it draws breath, is the reason secular law may permit it.

Nope, that’s something you just made up.

I guess I go there because many Christian say they a voting for Trump for moral reasons when he is a proven tax dodger, adulterer and sexual harasser. By him bragging about his ability to grab a woman by their croth without any reporcussions and having his lawyer write check to a porn actress for sex and paying out a settlement for racist housing practices, I don't see how a Christian can say he has the moral highground. I call it a cult because avowed Christians still follow him regardless of his morals. It's like they are under a spell or being brainwashed because Christian morality and Trump's morality do not agree. It's called the cult of personality when people follow a leader no matter what they do.

Or maybe they wanna protect innocent children in the womb from being murdered and don’t want children undergoing gender mutilation / sterilization.

 

[childeye 2]

I looked up the speech on YouTube, just to check. It's here,

, at about 14:40. (I didn't listen to the rest of the speech, so I don't know what he says later on.)

I agree with @Michie : My faith does not depend on who's elected to the presidency or to any other office.

Trump said to Christians "YOUR religion will be in tatters". Those sentiments as articulated, convey that it's not his religion. Also, I agree a Christian knows the True church is indwelled by the Eternal Spirit.

 

[rturner76]

Nope, that’s something you just made up.

So as Catholics, we are not in control of our actions? I don't get it.

Or maybe they wanna protect innocent children in the womb from being murdered and don’t want children undergoing gender mutilation / sterilization.

So that is what we do. Protect our fetuses. You can't control what other people do with theirs. Like I say, a fetus is not a child, it is a fetus. If it can breathe on it;s own, it has become baby/child.

 

[Adam56]

So as Catholics, we are not in control of our actions? I don't get it.

No, the idea that

“The fact that a fetus does not an independent life until it draws breath, is the reason secular law may permit it.”

Is something you made up.

So that is what we do. Protect our fetuses. You can't control what other people do with theirs. Like I say, a fetus is not a child, it is a fetus. If it can breathe on it;s own, it has become baby/child.

The government can protect the unborn. And that “breathe on its own” argument comes from pro choice atheists trying to “gotcha” Christians.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

No, all facts must be proven by the scientific method. Meaning they need to be proven by factual data that is repeatable.

You understand that this methodology is scientism, the belief that truth can only be found through science. It little different than what Richard Dawkins was advocating for. How does one determine moral or legal questions through facts and science?

 

[Michie]

So as Catholics, we are not in control of our actions? I don't get it.

So that is what we do. Protect our fetuses. You can't control what other people do with theirs. Like I say, a fetus is not a child, it is a fetus. If it can breathe on it;s own, it has become baby/child.

Smh. Read the Catechism. Just out of curiosity… how long have you been Catholic?

 

[Michie]

Philosophy, science, and common sense all point to the truth that a distinct human life begins at conception​

How to Prove Life Begins at Conception

Philosophy, science, and common sense all testify that a new, unique human life begins at conception. Click here to read more.

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The CCC gives an excellent and succinct synopsis of what we mean by the human soul in CCC 362-368. But here I am going to give an even more fundamental and philosophical definition. In general, whether it applies to humans or any living thing, philosophers define the soul as “the unifying and vivifying principle in all living things.” St. Thomas Aquinas tells us that animals and plants have souls as well. The soul is that unifying and vivifying principle that accounts for what philosphers call the “immanent action” of all living things. The word “immanent” comes from two Latin words that mean “to remain” and “in.” “Immanent action” means the multiple parts that comprise a living being are able to act “from within” in a unified way for the good of the whole being. The soul is what accounts for this unified action that is essential for there to be life.

Thus, as the instruction from the Sacred Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, Donum Vitae (I., 1), which I will quote in a moment, makes very clear, at the moment of conception, or the moment of a human being’s existence at conception, he possesses and is a body/soul composite and should, therefore, be treated as a human person. Of course this is true because without a soul you don’t have a human being. And, according to the infallible teaching of the Council of Vienne of 1312 (Decrees, 1), it is the soul that is the “form of the body,” or that which makes the body a living human body and along with the body makes the person a living human person. From the moment of conception, then, there exists a human person with all of the essential rights—especially the right to life, I might add—that are afforded to all human persons. In fact, Pope John Paul II, in his Encyclical Letter, Evangelium Vitae (para. 60), says very clearly:

Some people try to justify abortion by claiming that the result of conception, at least up to a certain number of days, cannot yet be considered a personal human life. But in fact, “from the time that the ovum is fertilized, a life is begun which is neither that of the father nor the mother; it is rather the life of a new human being with his own growth. It would never be made human if it were not human already. This has always been clear, and … modern genetic science offers clear confirmation…”

More recently, in what is considered to be a follow-up to the Instruction of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Donum vitae – promulgated of Feb. 22, 1987 – we have Dignitas Personae – On Certain Bioethical Questions – promulgated Sept. 8, 2008. In this document the Church made an even clearer statement with regard to the personhood of an embryo from the moment of conception. It begins by quoting Donum vitae, using it as its foundational principle and then it makes the conclusion that from the moment of conception the embryo possesses “the dignity of a person.” That means it’s a person folks! This is not just to say the embryo should be treated like a person, or even that the embryo is merely a human being; rather, it is a person. I will begin in section 4:

Continued below.

A Person From the Moment of Conception

In the final analysis, I guess Horton really does have it right: “A person is a person, no matter how small.”

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