Female Olympic boxer quits, reduced to tears after 46-second fight against male competitor

[Michie]

So gender is irrefutably gender unless it’s one of those scenarios where it isn’t, then it isn’t, and it never is with the segment of people you don’t like.

Got it.

Sorry, hard to keep up with what to believe when the goal post keeps getting moved.

I think the goal post is the evidence biology and science presents. Not really confusing imo.

 

[Michie]

What is the 23rd chromosome gender?


The 23rd pair of chromosomes are two special chromosomes, X and Y, that determine our sex. Females have a pair of X chromosomes (46, XX), whereas males have one X and one Y chromosomes (46, XY).

 

[Richard T]

I think it is fair. There are some great basketball players that are so tall because of growth hormone imbalance, no one says they have an unfair advantage. It is hard for any of these people with a genetic disorder they are at greater risk for a range of health issues. Still, if God gave them a few advantages why should they not be allowed to use them?

 

[Michie]

I think it is fair. There are some great basketball players that are so tall because of growth hormone imbalance, no one says they have an unfair advantage. It is hard for any of these people with a genetic disorder they are at greater risk for a range of health issues. Still, if God gave them a few advantages why should they not be allowed to use them?

Because she has XY chromosomes. Which makes her on par with a male athlete in a female competition where the females have XX chromosomes.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Imane Khelif, despite having a vagina, still had X and Y chromosomes which males have.
She also went through male puberty gaining male strength and size in the process.
No way should she be competing in women's sports, especially boxing.

This won't change until a female is knocked unconcience from a blow from such
a boxer like Imane Khelif.

 

[Richard T]

Because she has XY chromosomes. Which makes her on par with a male athlete in a female competition where the females have XX chromosomes.

Ok but if that is the standard, a woman who is far above average because of human growth hormone imbalance would be be "on par" with a a male too and they should only be allowed to play against males? What about a male with no testosterone? Could he box against women? The line has to be fair for both sexes.

 

[Michie]

Ok but if that is the standard, a woman who is far above average because of human growth hormone imbalance would be be "on par" with a a male too and they should only be allowed to play against males? What about a male with no testosterone? Could he box against women? The line has to be fair for both sexes.

Agreed. That’s why all the testing is done before participation. For some reason it is not pc to use the evidence science provides. Read the thread in OBOB.

Maybe we should just let people born with these conditions compete against each other.

I highly doubt a male with no testosterone would be up for boxing with a kitten, let alone a woman.

I just find it extremely odd that nobody seems concerned for the opponents devoted to their sport and expect to play on a fair and even playing field only to be met with these ridiculous scenarios.

 

[Richard T]

Agreed. That’s why all the testing is done before participation. For some reason it is not pc to use the evidence science provides. Read the thread in OBOB.

Maybe we should just let people born with these conditions compete against each other.

I highly doubt a male with no testosterone would be up for boxing with a kitten, let alone a woman.

I just find it extremely odd that nobody seems concerned for the opponents devoted to their sport and expect to play on a fair and even playing field only to be met with these ridiculous scenarios.

So the genitalia is not enough to determine a man or woman? I guess I am too simple but excluding them seems discriminatory. That boxer's win and loss record is not that great. I do think she got in the mind of the loser though. Let's see how far the Algerian goes.

 

[rturner76]

I am all for equality but crossing the gender line in competitive sports is questionable at best. I though boxing went by weight class anyway.

 

[Michie]

So the genitalia is not enough to determine a man or woman? I guess I am too simple but excluding them seems discriminatory. That boxer's win and loss record is not that great. I do think she got in the mind of the loser though. Let's see how far the Algerian goes.

I think science answers the question. Not genitalia. Same as testing for doping.

 

[JustaPewFiller]

I'm sure that someone will point out, Khelif has been beat before by female boxers.
But, that's because boxing isn't all just size and power. Skill, speed, training etc all come into play. A smaller, better, fighter beating a bigger, stronger fighter that is not as good happens fairly often.

But, Khelif's size and power does give Khelif an advantage over most female boxers. If Khelif had more skill, Khelif would probably be unstoppable in the female ranks.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I'm sure that someone will point out, Khelif has been beat before by female boxers.
But, that's because boxing isn't all just size and power. Skill, speed, training etc all come into play. A smaller, better, fighter beating a bigger, stronger fighter that is not as good happens fairly often.

But, Khelif's size and power does give Khelif an advantage over most female boxers. If Khelif had more skill, Khelif would probably be unstoppable in the female ranks.

If Khelif was born with a vagina, but also the X,Y, chromosomes, then technically, she is intersexed.
However, the chromosomes still make her biologically a male especially in the fact that
she went through puberty as a male and grew in strength and size as a male. Just looking
at her in the ring shows that she grew in physical size as a male.

Les than 1% of the human population are intersex. Transgenders are not intersexed, but
have either male or female genitalia and chromosomes. They choose to transition to
the opposite sex, which requires hormone and often surgical procedures.

In all, neither intersexed nor transgendered biological males should be allowed to compete
in women's sports.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I'm sure that someone will point out, Khelif has been beat before by female boxers.
But, that's because boxing isn't all just size and power. Skill, speed, training etc all come into play. A smaller, better, fighter beating a bigger, stronger fighter that is not as good happens fairly often.

But, Khelif's size and power does give Khelif an advantage over most female boxers. If Khelif had more skill, Khelif would probably be unstoppable in the female ranks.

Were they in the same weight class?

Boxing does require technique, but size makes a difference, which is why there are different weight classes in
both boxing and MA competitions.

 

[JustaPewFiller]

Were they in the same weight class?

Boxing does require technique, but size makes a difference, which is why there are different weight classes in
both boxing and MA competitions.

Yeah - they both fought in the 66kg class.

Yup, I'm aware of size and power. Long ago I studied martial arts, wrestled a little, did some security / bounced a bit. I was bigger and stronger than most and that give me an advantage. But, frankly, there were some smaller guys that were frankly better than me and could whup me.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Yeah - they both fought in the 66kg class.

Yup, I'm aware of size and power. Long ago I studied martial arts, wrestled a little, did some security / bounced a bit. I was bigger and stronger than most and that give me an advantage. But, frankly, there were some smaller guys that were frankly better than me and could whup me.

I too studied martial arts and did some sparing with two guys that were training in a boxing gym. In fact, the gym is where the former
heavy weight Olympian Bobby Harris trained at. One of the guys I spared with also had a black belt in Shotokan, but he had
little use for karate and all his focus at that time was boxing. Of course, I was 40 years of age then and they were under 26 years old,
so I merely looked foolish. I also was in the Marines, but other than learning how to kill with an M16, M60 machine gun, a .45 and knife, I really didn't learn much else on how to kill with my bare hands.

Today Khelif is suppose to fight a Hungarian woman for the gold. I have it set to tape and wonder how that will go?

BTW, are there weight classes in the Olympics? Khelif looked like she'd be heavier than the Italian woman he beat.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

FYI,....

Women’s Olympic boxing is restricted to five weight classes (based on the 2020 Tokyo Games):

• flyweight, 112 pounds (51 kg)
• featherweight, 126 pounds (57 kg)
• lightweight, 132 pounds (60 kg)
• welterweight, 152 pounds (69 kg)
• middleweight, 165 pounds (75 kg)

There is no universal agreement on weight divisions within women’s professional boxing, but amateur weight divisions are:

• flyweight, not more than 106 pounds (48 kg)
• bantamweight, 112 pounds (51 kg)
• featherweight, 119 pounds (54 kg)
• lightweight, 126 pounds (57 kg)
• light welterweight, 132 pounds (60 kg)
• welterweight, 141 pounds (64 kg)
• middleweight, 152 pounds (69 kg)
• light heavyweight, 165 pounds (75 kg)
• heavyweight, 179 pounds (81 kg)
• super heavyweight, any weight over 179 pounds (81 kg)

 

[Richard T]

I think science answers the question. Not genitalia. Same as testing for doping.

Ok, would you put such a "man" in a men's prison?

 

[Michie]

Ok, would you put such a "man" in a men's prison?

That has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. We are talking about fair play in sporting competitions.

 

[Michie]

Angela Carini, the Italian boxer who abandoned her Olympic bout Wednesday against Algeria’s Imane Khelif in less than a minute, offered a public apology Friday to Khelif for her post-fight behavior, which helped fuel conspiracy theories about Khelif’s gender and stoked right-wing outrage over transgender athletes in competitive sports.

Continued below.

https://thehill.com/policy/international/4808333-angela-carini-apologizes-boxing-match/

 

[FireDragon76]

Because she has XY chromosomes. Which makes her on par with a male athlete in a female competition where the females have XX chromosomes.

Not necessarily. If she has an androgen insensitivity syndrome, higher than normal testosterone levels wouldn't have an inordinately anabolic effect. Olympic boxing also isn't a competition of strength, but speed and agility. All that is required to win a match are solid hits- knock outs aren't part of the game.

The main physical advantage she is her reach. However, she is not unbeatable, and she has lost to other competitors who are better at infighting.