Thoughts on this timeline?

[AlexB23]

Ok, I don’t know if you’ve heard of the Sentinelese indigenous people but they are protected by India as a tribal reserve and no one is allowed to travel within three nautical miles of their islands.

Since the end can’t happen until these people hear the gospel, in a certain sense, India is currently preventing the end from happening. Do you think this situation would be just as concerning as events happening in Israel today and should be monitored?
I personally don’t know of anyone trying to keep track of the gospel being preached or working on persuading India to allow access to the Sentinelese but it would seem to be an extremely important factor for those who don’t think it has been fulfilled yet.

Yeah, I have heard of this. Israel situation is much worse, but yes, the Sentinelese situation should be monitored. India is slowing things down, probably.

 

[grafted branch]

Yeah, I have heard of this. Israel situation is much worse, but yes, the Sentinelese situation should be monitored. India is slowing things down, probably.

What if an individual wanted to deliberately prevent the end from happening and hold another person hostage and never allow the gospel to reach that person? Like we occasionally hear about where someone was lock in a room since they were a child.

A very rich person may want to hold onto their wealth and could attempt such a thing if they saw the end approaching, right?

 

[AlexB23]

What if an individual wanted to deliberately prevent the end from happening and hold another person hostage and never allow the gospel to reach that person? Like we occasionally hear about where someone was lock in a room since they were a child.

A very rich person may want to hold onto their wealth and could attempt such a thing if they saw the end approaching, right?

I am not sure. God is understanding of things.

 

[grafted branch]

I am not sure. God is understanding of things.

Yea, I get that. I tend to be a logical thinker and some things just don’t make logical sense to me. I know all things are possible for God, but if we have free will then it seems we can thwart or prevent some end time events from happening.

Along this same line of thinking is the problem with a future Antichrist and 666. If a future Antichrist really wanted to do some damage all he would have to do is not implement the mark of the beast, that would make God a liar and do far more damage than anything else he could do.

It’s almost as if a person who is a futurist can’t have people with free will during the future because that free will allows people the choice to alter the end times. It seems strange to me but nearly all futurist that I have met do believe in free will.

Ok, I’m just throwing these things out there for something to think about, not trying to debate free will.

 

[AlexB23]

Yea, I get that. I tend to be a logical thinker and some things just don’t make logical sense to me. I know all things are possible for God, but if we have free will then it seems we can thwart or prevent some end time events from happening.

Along this same line of thinking is the problem with a future Antichrist and 666. If a future Antichrist really wanted to do some damage all he would have to do is not implement the mark of the beast, that would make God a liar and do far more damage than anything else he could do.

It’s almost as if a person who is a futurist can’t have people with free will during the future because that free will allows people the choice to alter the end times. It seems strange to me but nearly all futurist that I have met do believe in free will.

Ok, I’m just throwing these things out there for something to think about, not trying to debate free will.

It is getting late here man. Maybe talk to your pastor or priest about this. He/she can help you with these questions. Theologians have been debating this stuff for centuries.

We could delay the End Times, but it is inevitable. For instance, the Euphrates drying up is in Revelation (6th bowl), and we can slow that down by emitting less carbon dioxide, therefore slowing down global warming, and reducing evaporation rates.

 

[keras]

how can we determine if the gospel does get preached in all the world if we don’t rely on what Paul said?

We can rely on Pauls inspired Words.
Do not think the fulfilment of everyone hearing the Gospel is exclusively for todays situation.

That task will be for the 144,000 people especially selected by Jesus, Rev 7:9, Rev 14:1-5, from out of the vast multitude of faithful Christians who will be gathered into the holy Land, soon after all that area is cleared and cleansed by the Sixth Seal, the Lords Day of fiery wrath.
Proved by Isaiah 66:18b-21, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26........in the same place...

It is not an angel who proclaims the Gospel, as Revelation 14:6-7 metaphorically says, but those missionaries, going out in pairs, as the 72 did in Luke 10:1-12

 

[T.i.m.o.t.h.y.]

Right, and if we were to come to the conclusion that Jesus didn’t return within their generation then it makes a person wonder what other things the apostles promoted that weren’t correct.

Where in scripture do you get your idea that Jesus said that he would return while they are still alive? I would assume it to be where Jesus said that one from among the disciples would be alive to see Jesus enter into his kingdom.

You apparently assumed in error that 'see' is a natural occurrence.

His kingdom being what is called the Messianic Millennium. John was the remaining original disciple still alive after all others had been martyred. The book of Revelation (referring to spiritual sight) was written by him while he was on Patmos. At that time John saw a vision of Jesus. And so the whole of the book is what he saw- details of what occurs in future, even our own future. The events that lead up to the Second Coming of Jesus and the event that follows, the Messianic Millennium. Including the White Throne Judgement, and The New Heavens and New Earth.

It's not a matter of 'not being correct'.. it's a matter of faith. At the time when people are alive they would be among those who are alive when Jesus comes because the other group is those who are dead to be resurrected when Jesus comes. Paul counted himself to be with those who are alive because no one knows when Jesus will come according to Jesus' own words. "Noone knows the day or the hour" of His Coming.

So what Paul said is a correct belief and doctrinal thing to say.

 

[grafted branch]

Where in scripture do you get your idea that Jesus said that he would return while they are still alive?

I got that idea from your statement in post #26 where you said “The apostles of the new testament talked like Jesus would return within their lifetime”.

Paul counted himself to be with those who are alive because no one knows when Jesus will come according to Jesus' own words. "Noone knows the day or the hour" of His Coming.

No one knows the day or hour but Paul himself knew certain things had to happen prior to the coming.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

So what Paul said is a correct belief and doctrinal thing to say.

It appears to me that you’ve accepted that Paul was incorrect yet it was a correct belief and then by extension come to the conclusion that the Bible teaches us a doctrinal point that we don’t need to be correct either, as long as the belief itself is correct. I think this sort of thing is referred to as “the end justifies the means”.

I personally can’t accept this type of thinking.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Jesus said it will be His terrible Day of fiery wrath, that we won't know when it will happen. It will strike the world unexpectedly and it will set the scene for all the rest of the Prophesied end times to take place. 2 Peter 3:7
As Psalms 83 tells us, that Day will be triggered by an attack on Israel by an Islamic confederacy. It is looking very close now!

Isaiah 13:17-19 I shall stir up the Medes [Iran] against them, [Israel]......They, [Palestinians] have no pity on little children.........Babylon of the Chaldeans, [the godless peoples cities] their pride; will become as Sodom and Gomorrah, when God destroys them.

What was shown to us in the Old Testament is shown in the natural. Paul taught the principle of first the natural, then the spiritual in 1 Cor 15. So we have all of the Old Testament to look to for natural events. Jesus was the start of the Spiritual Temple for example. 3 temples of the O.T. We will find similar in the N.T. in the SPIRITUAL. Jesus being number 1. Collective of believers, number 2. All joined with God in Christ as one, #3. See how that works? I could write a book on this aspect of the temples. They are quite real, even now, as we struggle in temple #2, the temple of the "rich man."

What happens at the end in the days of Noah will be similar, but Spiritual, in ways we will not expect. Definitely NOT exactly like the days of Noah. Almost a reversal of sorts. The instrument of destruction of enemies (cough cough, the devil and his messengers) is this. MERCY. His Mercy endures forever. Remember?

As in the days of Noah is a great example. Here Isaiah gives us a beautiful tip off tid bit as to what that will be in the SPIRITUAL and what Jesus was referring to in the Gospels:

Isaiah 54:
8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the Lord thy Redeemer.

9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.

10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee.

Sorry to disappoint the blood and guts and burn everyone and everything crowds

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Where in scripture do you get your idea that Jesus said that he would return while they are still alive?

This belief comes from the preterist or partial preterist crowds (they are soo far off it's not funny).

The scripture they refer to is here:

Matthew 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

And guess what? Jesus was exactly right in that statement. Here's where the rub for anyone trying to understand this scripture comes. Remember that Jesus looked at Peter and spoke to WHO in Peter? That's right, SATAN. Good answer.

So, is Satan still standing here? YUP. So are a lot of devils who were there then.

Sometimes you have to look past the flesh to see the obvious.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

This belief comes from the preterist or partial preterist crowds (they are soo far off it's not funny).

The scripture they refer to is here:

Matthew 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

And guess what? Jesus was exactly right in that statement. Here's where the rub for anyone trying to understand this scripture comes. Remember that Jesus looked at Peter and spoke to WHO in Peter? That's right, SATAN. Good answer.

So, is Satan still standing here? YUP. So are a lot of devils who were there then.

Sometimes you have to look past the flesh to see the obvious.

Preterists don't understand that Jesus was referring to His transfiguration in that verse and His transfiguration is described in the verses immediately following that. He appeared to Peter, James and John in glory and power at His transfiguration, which was a preview or foretaste of Him coming in His kingdom. Jesus was NOT saying His second coming would occur before some standing there died.

 

[T.i.m.o.t.h.y.]

This belief comes from the preterist or partial preterist crowds (they are soo far off it's not funny).

The scripture they refer to is here:

Matthew 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

And guess what? Jesus was exactly right in that statement. Here's where the rub for anyone trying to understand this scripture comes. Remember that Jesus looked at Peter and spoke to WHO in Peter? That's right, SATAN. Good answer.

So, is Satan still standing here? YUP. So are a lot of devils who were there then.

Sometimes you have to look past the flesh to see the obvious.

Mat.16:28 could not be referring to satan. The grammar refers to humans who are subject to death. It says that one from among them "shall not taste of death till he sees the Son of man coming in his kingdom." The word till directly means that after seeing Jesus come into his kingdom, the person will die in due time.
The one of the 12 disciples that wasn't martyred was John who on the isle of Patmos saw by vision the events of Daniel's 70th week, the 7 year Tribulation, that leads to Jesus' second coming, and into his Messianic Kingdom.

It turns out that John could not be martyred but died of old age.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Preterists don't understand that Jesus was referring to His transfiguration in that verse and His transfiguration is described in the verses immediately following that. He appeared to Peter, James and John in glory and power at His transfiguration, which was a preview or foretaste of Him coming in His kingdom. Jesus was NOT saying His second coming would occur before some standing there died.

A novel sight but perhaps not as accurate as devils standing there in people, also referenced here:

Rev 1:
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Mat.16:28 could not be referring to satan. The grammar refers to humans who are subject to death. It says that one from among them "shall not taste of death till he sees the Son of man coming in his kingdom." The word till directly means that after seeing Jesus come into his kingdom, the person will die in due time.
The one of the 12 disciples that wasn't martyred was John who on the isle of Patmos saw by vision the events of Daniel's 70th week, the 7 year Tribulation, that leads to Jesus' second coming, and into his Messianic Kingdom.

It turns out that John could not be martyred but died of old age.

What makes you think Satan won't be subject to the "second death" at some point in the future? And will in fact see Jesus' 2nd coming.

I also wouldn't consider the vision John had to be Jesus coming in power into His Kingdom, where the kingdoms of this world become the Kingdom of God in Christ. Rev. 11:15

 

[keras]

Sorry to disappoint the blood and guts and burn everyone and everything crowds

I prefer to believe these clearly stated Prophesies:
The following seventy three Bible verses describe the forthcoming Day of the Lords vengeance and wrath, which will take the form of a Coronal Mass Ejection: an explosion of the suns surface. This is the next prophesied event, the fulfilment of Psalms 83 and the Sixth Seal of Revelation. Note that in three quarters of these verses, it categorically states how it is the Lord who instigates this fire judgement.

Deuteronomy 32:22 For fire is set ablaze by My anger, it burns to the depths of Sheol, it devours the increase of the earth, its flames reach into the mountains.
2 Samuel 22:9-10 He parted the heavens, with smoke, devouring fire and searing heat.

Job 18:5 The tents of the evildoer are burned and brimstone destroys them.

Psalms 11:6 He will rain down burning coals and brimstone upon the godless peoples.

Psalms 18:7-15 The earth quaked as the Lord came in devouring fire. He covered Himself in darkness. [the Lord will not be seen on that Day]

Psalms 21:8-9 You burn up Your enemies, like a fiery furnace, You consume them.

Psalms 29:7 The Lord’s shout strikes with flaming fire.

Psalms 37:20 Evil people will die, they will be incinerated and go up in smoke.

Psalms 50:3 Our God is coming, a consuming fire runs ahead of Him and around Him a storm rages

Psalms 66:12 You allowed men to rule us, we passed through fire, now we live in safety.

Psalms 83:14-15 As fire rages through a forest, as flames on the hills – terrify them with storms.

Psalms 97:3-4 Fire goes before Him, all around it burns up His enemies, the whole earth sees Psalms 140:10 May the Lord throw my enemies into the fire. [and trembles.

Psalms 144:5-6 Lord, part the heavens and come down, cause volcanoes and flashes of fire.

Isaiah 1:31 The deeds of the unrighteous will be as a spark, all will burn together with no one to put out the fire.

Isaiah 4:4 At that time the Sovereign Lord will cleanse Jerusalem with a judgement of fire.

Isaiah 9:18-19 For evil burned and went up in smoke, the Land was scorched and the people were fuel for the fire.

Isaiah 10:17 The Light of Israel will become a fire, it will burn and consume His enemies in a day

Isaiah 13:13 The heavens and the earth will shake on the Day the Lord vents His blazing anger.

Isaiah 24:1-4 Be warned: the Lord is about to strip the earth and scatter its inhabitants. The earth will dry and wither up.

Isaiah 26:11 You, O Lord are ready to act, but people don’t see it. Let the fire reserved for Your enemies consume them.

Isaiah 29:6 Punishment will come from the Lord, with thunder, earthquakes, storms and consuming flames of fire.

Isaiah 30:26-28 On that Day, the sun will shine seven times brighter. The Lord comes in anger, His tongue a devouring fire, to sieve the nations.

Isaiah 31:9 They will surrender their stronghold to the Lord, the One whose fire blazes in Zion.

Isaiah 47:14 Astrologers and divinators will be as stubble as the fire burns them up.

Isaiah 50:11 Look: all you who start a fire, that is what you will receive from Me.

Isaiah 62:1 For Zion’s sake, I will not remain quiet. Her deliverance comes, burning like a torch.

Isaiah 66:15-16 The Lord comes in fire, like a whirlwind, bringing retribution in His furious anger. He will judge with fire and many will be slain by Him.
Jeremiah 4:4 Dedicate yourself to the Lord, if not, My anger will blaze up in flaming fire.

Jeremiah 5:14 ...those people will be like firewood, that My fiery judgement will burn up.

Jeremiah 6:29 The fiery bellows of judgement burn fiercely to refine My people.

Jeremiah 7:20 The Lord says: My raging fury will be poured out, it will burn un extinguished.

Jeremiah 11:16 You were a beautiful tree, but I will set you on fire, a mighty blaze.

Jeremiah 15:14...For My anger is like a fire that will flare up against you.

Jeremiah 17:27 ...if you disobey, I will set Jerusalem on fire, no one will be able to put it out.

Jeremiah 21:12-14 Dispense justice or the fire of My fury will blaze up and burn unquenched.

Jeremiah 48:45 Flames will burst out and burn the people of Moab.

Jeremiah 49:2 The time is coming when Ammon will be burnt to ashes.

Jeremiah 49:27 I shall set fire to Damascus, it will burn up that city. [around.

Jeremiah 50:32 Babylon will fall, I will set fire to your towns, it will burn up everything

Lamentations 2:3 In His fierce anger, He withdraws His protecting hand and He blazes in Judah as a raging fire.

Ezekiel 15:6-8 ...the residents of Jerusalem will be as fuel for the fire. I will make their Land desolate.

Ezekiel 19:14 Fire bursts forth in the vine, [Israel] burning up its shoots. It has no strong branch anymore, no sceptre for those who bear rule.

Ezekiel 20:47-48 I will start a fire in the Land, flames that will scorch all the area. All will see that it is I, the Lord who has set it ablaze.

Ezekiel 21:15 My sword of wrath, ready to kill – flashing like lightning.

Ezekiel 21:28 A sword is drawn for slaughter against the Ammonites – flashing like lightning.

Ezekiel 22:20 As metal is smelted in a furnace, so I will deal with you, Israel.

Ezekiel 30:16 I will set Egypt on fire.

Hosea 8:14 Israel and Judah have forgotten their Maker – I will send fire upon them.

Joel 1:19-20 To You, Lord, I cry out, for fire has consumed the pastures and trees of the Land.

Joel 2:3 It comes in devastating fire, as a leaping flame, leaving behind a desolate waste.

Joel 2:30-31 On the great and terrible Day of the Lord, the sky and the earth will show blood, fire and smoke.

Amos 1:4 Therefore, I shall send fire on Damascus [Syria]

Amos 1:7 Therefore, I shall send fire on Philistia. [Palestine]

Amos 1:10 Therefore, I shall send fire on Tyre. [Lebanon]

Amos 1:12 Therefore, I shall send fire on Edom. [the ungodly nations]

Amos 1:14 Therefore, I shall send fire on Ammon. [Jordan]

Amos 2:2 Therefore, I shall send fire on Moab. [Southern Jordan]

Amos 2:5 Therefore, I shall send fire on Judah and Jerusalem. [The State of Israel]

Micah 1:3 No one can withstand His fierce anger, His wrath is like a volcanic fire.

Zephaniah 1:18 ..the whole land will be consumed by His fiery wrath, destruction comes to all the earth. He will make a sudden and terrifying end to all who live in the Land.

Zephaniah 2:2 Prepare yourselves before the Lord’s burning anger comes upon you.

Zephaniah 3:8 Wait for Me, for the Day that I accuse you and pour out My burning anger, the whole earth will be consumed by the fire of My wrath.
Haggai 2:21-22 I shall shake the heavens and the earth and break the powers of the heathen.

Zechariah 12:6 On that Day, Judah will be as a torch that will burn up the surrounding nations.

Zechariah 13:9 I shall pass the remaining third through the fire and refine them.

Malachi 3:2-3 Who can endure that Day? He is like refiners fire, testing and purifying.

Malachi 4:1 The Day comes; burning like a furnace. That Day will burn up all evildoers.

Matthew 3:12 ...the chaff, He will burn up in an inextinguishable fire.

2 Peter 3:7 The present heaven and earth are reserved for fire, on the Day of judgement. 1 Corinthians 3:13Every persons works will be revealed by fire.The destruction of the ungodly.

Hebrews 8:26-27 For if we deliberately persist in sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there remains only the terrifying expectation of a fierce fire that will consume God’s enemies.

Revelation 14:18 Then the angel who has authority over fire called out; Now is the time to reap the earth. The harvest is ripe to be gathered into the great winepress of God.
Reference: REB, NIV, NET. Some verses abridged.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Psalms 37:20 Evil people will die, they will be incinerated and go up in smoke.

20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Easy to mistake enemies with people because the real enemies are unseen. Blind paraphrasing

Mark 4:15 shows us 2 parties, 1 location.

All have sin, Romans 3:9

Sin is "of the devil," 1 John 3:8

Scriptural math is clear on this subject

IF evil people are burned up, then there will be zero people remaining, if that's where you want to go?

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

How is that possible back then? Colonialists did not preach the Gospel to South America until the 1500s (with a lot of violence committed by the Spaniards sadly)

no it was not possible

 

[AlexB23]

no it was not possible

Agreed. Preaching the gospel worldwide did not become possible until technology (ships, and then later, computers) were developed.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

A novel sight but perhaps not as accurate as devils standing there in people, also referenced here:

Rev 1:
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

I don't know what you are intending to say here as it relates to what I was saying in my post. Can you explain?

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

I don't know what you are intending to say here as it relates to what I was saying in my post. Can you explain?

I said it is unlikely that when Jesus made the statement of Matt 16:28 it was not speaking of the transfiguration. We could pick any number of miracles associated with Jesus and say the same thing, such as the walking on water event where the disciples thought he was a ghost (perhaps another type of transfiguration.)

What we can say deterministically is that devils were also "in the people" present. We have no record of their deaths so presumably they are all still alive (if we can call them alive), standing here, and will be when Jesus returns to finish them off. Rev 1:7 shows us those who pierced Him will also see Him upon return and we know those men are long dead but the devils who ALSO fostered those acts are still here.

So, future event.