Exodus evidence (part 2 updated)

[Ace777]

Can you explain in detail where, in the Levant area, they invented clay pots and kept them in cisterns and made alcohol, and about when in BC? Was some of this alcohol also used as medicine? What were all the uses for alcohol back then? Were there agricultural methods used to make alcohol? How do archeologists explore the evidence of agriculture?

Nobody knows exactly when humans began to create fermented beverages. The earliest known evidence comes from 7,000 BCE in China, where residue in clay pots has revealed that people were making an alcoholic beverage from fermented rice, millet, grapes, and honey.

After the account of the great flood, the biblical Noah is said to have cultivated a vineyard, made wine, and become intoxicated. Thus, the discovery of fermentation is traditionally attributed to Noah because this is the first time alcohol appears in the Bible.

 

[Astrid]

Nobody knows exactly when humans began to create fermented beverages. The earliest known evidence comes from 7,000 BCE in China, where residue in clay pots has revealed that people were making an alcoholic beverage from fermented rice, millet, grapes, and honey.

After the account of the great flood, the biblical Noah is said to have cultivated a vineyard, made wine, and become intoxicated. Thus, the discovery of fermentation is traditionally attributed to Noah because this is the first time alcohol appears in the Bible.

Bible won't help with that date as there was no
"great flood".

We Chinese were writing poetry before the
world was even " created" by OT chronology.

The appearance of long necked fermentation pots iserves as a sure marker for the aarchaeologiststs, ho actually
like to go by evidence.

 

[AV1611VET]

We Chinese were writing poetry before the world was even "created" by OT chronology.

'Fraid not.

The Chinese came from Noah's grandson, Canaan.

Genesis 10:15 And Canaan begat Sidon his firstborn, and Heth,
16 And the Jebusite, and the Amorite, and the Girgasite,
17 And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite,

... and are the nephews of the Egyptians.

Genesis 10:6 And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.

Thus:

Noah → Ham → Mizraim (Egyptians)

Noah → Ham → Canaan → Sinites (Chinese)

 

[AV1611VET]

We Chinese were writing poetry before the world was even "created" by OT chronology.

The appearance of long necked fermentation pots serves as a sure marker for the archaeologists, who actually
like to go by evidence.

Long-necked fermentation pots serve as a sure marker that the Chinese were writing poetry before the world was created???

 

[Hans Blaster]

You never heard of Pangea?

Pangea was a continent, not a flood.

Dinosaurs are found in flood deposits at the top of the rocky mountains. All the way from New Mexico to Wyoming. How do you explain that?

It's called "uplift". You should read up on it. (I have no idea if the "flood deposit" claim is true.)

The Lujiatun Unit of dinosaur fossils in China were likely killed by multiple flood events.

Floods happen every year and things die in them. "multiple flood events" is not the same as one big flood.

Clearly there were no dinosaurs on Noah's ark so they did not survive the flood.

You should check with Ken Ham on that one so that all of you are on the same page.

 

[rvs]

You never heard of Pangea? Dinosaurs are found in flood deposits at the top of the rocky mountains. All the way from New Mexico to Wyoming. How do you explain that? The Lujiatun Unit of dinosaur fossils in China were likely killed by multiple flood events. Clearly there were no dinosaurs on Noah's ark so they did not survive the flood.

I don't think there was a global flood or an ark with all the animals on it. I think floods are local. Interesting about dinosaurs and their findings. From China all the way to New Mexico and Wyoming. I wonder if there were any dinosaurs in India and the Levant areas.

Way earlier, before the Exodus, due to droughts, there were local flooding. The Meena community in Jalore, India, had flooding due to bowl-shaped situations.

Let me show you this bowl shape and let me know what you think about how this could cause flooding.

My understanding is that flooding happened locally, and Exodus happened later due to droughts.

 

[Astrid]

You never heard of Pangea? Dinosaurs are found in flood deposits at the top of the rocky mountains. All the way from New Mexico to Wyoming. How do you explain that? The Lujiatun Unit of dinosaur fossils in China were likely killed by multiple flood events. Clearly there were no dinosaurs on Noah's ark so they did not survive the flood.

I...think you've a bit more to learn before
you try to give lessons.

 

[Ace777]

I...think you've a bit more to learn before
you try to give lessons.

Maybe you need to follow your own advise. You should also show some respect for elders.

 

[AV1611VET]

My understanding is that flooding happened locally,

Then why only one flood story?

You'd think they would have the earth being flooded every year.

 

[AV1611VET]

I...think you've a bit more to learn before you try to give lessons.

Speaking of lessons, isn't it ... coincidental ... that everywhere dinosaur bones are found atop mountains, it's explained away with "uplift"?

Found in Tibet? -- Ya, Tibet was under water.

Found in Biafra? -- Ya, Biafra was under water.

Found in the Applachians? -- Ya, Appalachia was under water.

Found on Guam? -- No. There's no mountains on Guam, silly.

Tibet, Biafra, Applachians, Chile, and other places?

There's proof right there that the Flood was global.

And another thing.

Didn't these dinosaurs allegedly die out due to climate change, caused when some phantom asteroid whacked us?

Make up our minds, for crying out loud.

 

[AV1611VET]

Maybe you need to follow your own advise. You should also show some respect for elders.

She said she'd convert when they calculate Pi to the trillionth decimal place.

Guess what?

Pi has been calculated to 105 trillion digits.

Guess what?

She hasn't converted (as far as I know).

 

[Ace777]

She hasn't converted (as far as I know).

Actually I was quoting Confucius, the ancient Chinese philosopher, emphasized the importance of respecting one’s elders. His teachings have had a lasting impact on Chinese culture and beyond.

 

[dlamberth]

You never heard of Pangea? Dinosaurs are found in flood deposits at the top of the rocky mountains. All the way from New Mexico to Wyoming. How do you explain that? The Lujiatun Unit of dinosaur fossils in China were likely killed by multiple flood events. Clearly there were no dinosaurs on Noah's ark so they did not survive the flood.

There is zero evidence of a Noah flood. Floods leave clear evidence. And one the size and anger of a Noah's flood that we are told happened only 4000 years ago would have left clear evidence all over the globe. Take a look at the evidence of the Ice Age floods of 12,000 years ago that swept across 3 states here in the Northwest. That was longer ago than the suppose Noah's flood, and evidence of that flood is clear with no sign of a Global Flood after it.

Missoula floods - Wikipedia

 

[sjastro]

Another problem with the Exodus if the Hebrews were in Egypt for 430 years before escaping and having been subjected to enslavement and cultural destruction how did their Semitic language survive?
One would have expected the escaping Israelites to be Egyptian speaking with a smattering of original words given history shows us the rapid loss of original language over succeeding generations of slaves.

According to the archaeology the Egyptians controlled Canaan for nearly five centuries but were pragmatic rulers allowing the Canaanites a certain degree of autonomy along with religious and cultural freedoms on condition they paid tribute to the pharaohs.
The results were the preservation of the Semitic language and Canaanite customs with some Egyptian words creeping into the language which is the reverse of what would have happened if Exodus was a historical account.

Here are 10 examples.
Note the Egyptian words are phonetic interpretations of the Egyptian hieroglyphs.

• סַרְסָר (sarsar) - This term appears in Ugaritic texts and likely means "hailstorm" or "storm." It is derived from the Egyptian word "sr-sr".
• בֶּצֶם (betsem) - Found in Ugaritic texts, this word means "linen" or "cloth." It is borrowed from the Egyptian word "btm".
• אָפִיר (afir) - This term, found in Ugaritic and Hebrew, refers to "dust" or "fine dust." It is derived from the Egyptian word "apir".
• מֶצֶז (meṣez) - This word appears in Ugaritic and possibly Hebrew, meaning "mud" or "mortar." It is borrowed from the Egyptian word "msṣ" often referring to the mixture used in construction.
• שֶׁשׁ (shesh) - This word appears in Ugaritic and Hebrew, meaning "fine linen" or "fine cloth." It is borrowed from the Egyptian word "šš".
• אֹפֶל (ophel) - Found in Ugaritic and Hebrew, this word means "darkness" or "gloom." It is derived from the Egyptian word "iʿp,".
• מָרָא (mara) - This term appears in Ugaritic and Hebrew, meaning "bitterness" or "bitter thing." It is borrowed from the Egyptian word "mr".
• אַרְגָּז (argaz) - Found in Ugaritic, this word means "treasure" or "storehouse." It is derived from the Egyptian word "rgz" which means to collect or gather.
• פָּטוֹם (patom) - This term appears in Ugaritic, meaning "container" or "jar." It is borrowed from the Egyptian word "ptm," which refers to a vessel or container.
• שָׁקַע (shaqa) - Found in Ugaritic, this word means "to sink" or "to submerge." It is derived from the Egyptian word "šq".

 

[Neogaia777]

I believe Noah's flood was regional to the area of Mesopotamia or the middle east around the time that the Bible says that it happened, and that only native animals were brought into the Ark, and that the Ark was not a ship but was more like a wooden box only meant to float and weather the storm temporarily, and that the flood in that region itself was only meant to wipe out the original descendants of Adam and Eve who I believe were referred to as "Sons of God" who were maybe an entirely different race or even species of human and were on average about 12 feet tall and who were the original descendants of that specially created species/race, who later and right before the Flood encountered or started encountering the sons and daughters of men or man who were evolved and that they started having sex with and producing children with who were the giants or Nephilim before and after the Flood, descending mainly from Cain and his descendants and maybe also Noah and his family maybe and also maybe some few survivors of the flood also maybe, etc. I believe that's why that entire region is a desert now, because sea water was also added, or was allowed to spill in. It was one of the most fertile regions on the planet before that, etc. Very easy living in that area or that region before that, etc. But not after, etc.

God Bless.

 

[AV1611VET]

There is zero evidence of a Noah flood.

Can God flood the entire moon with floodwaters 20 miles deep tomorrow; then the day after tomorrow have the moon back to its original condition with absolutely zero evidence that anything at all happened?

 

[AV1611VET]

Another problem with the Exodus if the Hebrews were in Egypt for 430 years before escaping and having been subjected to enslavement and cultural destruction how did their Semitic language survive?

Ya -- no one speaks Dakhóta today, do they?

 

[AV1611VET]

... and that the Ark was not a ship but was more like a wooden box only meant to float and weather the storm temporarily,

I agree with this part.

I think the Ark was a simple flotation device.

 

[Neogaia777]

Another problem with the Exodus if the Hebrews were in Egypt for 430 years before escaping and having been subjected to enslavement and cultural destruction how did their Semitic language survive?

If they considered it important they would have found a way to preserve it. Same with their cultural ways as well.

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

I agree with this part.

I think the Ark was a simple flotation device.

The schematics, or the way Noah was told to build it, shows it was not a ship, but just a square, rectangular-shaped wooden box, etc.

God Bless.