Rome and ACNA full communion?

[tampasteve]

I am going to be cross posting this in both the Anglican and RCC forums for input from both groups. Can anyone comment on the potential full communion and recognition of ACNA Holy Orders? I came across this article and it is compelling to believe that we may be on the cusp of full communion between Rome and the ACNA. But how would that actually play out?
Article: Rome Moves Toward 'Full Communion' With Orthodox Anglicans

In a historic step, the Vatican is working toward "full communion" with conservative Anglicans by recognizing Anglican holy orders and churches without requiring "amalgamation or conversion."

The union will be based on a Malta II proposal presented by the Anglican Church of North America (ACNA), that revives the Malta I report agreed upon by Pope Paul VI and archbishop of Canterbury Dr. Michael Ramsey in 1966.

According to the Malta I proposals, differences in matters like Petrine primacy, infallibility, and Mariology, would be overcome by ensuring that "neither Communion is tied to a positive acceptance of all the beliefs and devotional practices of the other."

he meetings have now been confirmed in an Ecumenical Relations Task Force Report released by the ACNA College of Bishops, who met at a provincial council from June 20-25, in Latrobe, Pennsylvania.

The report reveals that Abp. Foley Beach, then-primate of ACNA; Bp. Eric Menees, chair of dialogue with the Roman Catholic Church; and Bp. Ray Sutton, presiding bishop of the Reformed Episcopal Church, flew to the Vatican for meetings at the DDF in June 2023.

A high-level ACNA source told Souls and Liberty that "the door of union and mutual recognition of holy orders would remain open only for Anglican provinces that were orthodox and had not permitted the ordination of women or gay blessings/marriage."

"Rome has agreed to enter a separate dialogue with the ACNA and Global South Fellowship of Anglican Churches (GFSA) / Global Anglican Future Conference (GAFCON) part of Anglicanism. This dialogue will not include the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Church of England, the Anglican Church of Canada, or the The Episcopal Church," Sutton emphasized.

The ACNA proposals in September will also suggest ways that GAFCON and GFSA could be included in a broader dialogue.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I am going to be cross posting this in both the Anglican and RCC forums for input from both groups. Can anyone comment on the potential full communion and recognition of ACNA Hold Orders? I cam accross this article and it is compelling to believe that we may be on the cusp of full communion between Rome and the ACNA. But how would that actually play out?
Article: Rome Moves Toward 'Full Communion' With Orthodox Anglicans

Thea ANCA has had elements that leaned Catholic, and other elements. ANCA does have women priests in some dioceses. What does that say about their theology of ordination? I think ANCA will have some figuring to do in that regard. Other than that, I am very encouraged by this attempt.

Back in the day, back in the 1960s, we got ever so close. But then Anglicanism began to veer off the road, ordaining women and leaving historic Christian teaching aside. ANCA was the remnant that hadn’t fully gone off the road yet. Which was a good thing. We should be talking with each other. I hope progress can be made. I just think ordination is going to be an issue WITHIN ANCA. David Virtue (virtueonline.org) seems to agree that the subject is tense within ANCA.

 

[AlexB23]

I am going to be cross posting this in both the Anglican and RCC forums for input from both groups. Can anyone comment on the potential full communion and recognition of ACNA Holy Orders? I came across this article and it is compelling to believe that we may be on the cusp of full communion between Rome and the ACNA. But how would that actually play out?
Article: Rome Moves Toward 'Full Communion' With Orthodox Anglicans

Will Rome have full communion with the Greek Orthodox churches in the future as well? I am Catholic, but have an Orthodox friend.

 

[tampasteve]

Will Rome have full communion with the Greek Orthodox churches in the future as well? I am Catholic, but have an Orthodox friend.

We can pray so. IIRC the RCC and EO already recognize one another's Holy Orders.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Will Rome have full communion with the Greek Orthodox churches in the future as well? I am Catholic, but have an Orthodox friend.

That's largely up to the Orthodox. They have to want unity and so far as I can see the commonest Orthodox view is that the only way toward unity is for Catholics to renounce Catholicism and join the Orthodox Church. Not the only view they may have, but indicative that they are in no rush to be in full communion. We need to pray about this.

 

[chevyontheriver]

We can pray so. IIRC the RCC and EO already recognize one another's Holy Orders.

The Catholic Church recognizes Orthodox Holy Orders. Recognizes all of the Orthodox sacraments. Catholics can rightly approach the Orthodox for communion if they do not have access to a Catholic Church, if the Orthodox agree. Catholics allow the Orthodox the same, if the Orthodox agree. OTOH the Orthodox don't all accept the validity of baptism done in the Catholic Church. Some do, some don't, some wave their hands and say 'economia' and give the whole issue a pass.

I don't expect to see the Orthodox Churches and the Catholic Church to come into any sort of synch in my lifetime. I have been praying for it now for decades. And I'll keep praying. I think it more likely that the Catholics and ANCA would agree in my lifetime.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I am going to be cross posting this in both the Anglican and RCC forums for input from both groups. Can anyone comment on the potential full communion and recognition of ACNA Holy Orders? I came across this article and it is compelling to believe that we may be on the cusp of full communion between Rome and the ACNA. But how would that actually play out?
Article: Rome Moves Toward 'Full Communion' With Orthodox Anglicans

I think the ANCA should push the Vatican to rescind Fiducia supplicans blessings of 'irregular' relationships and seek a massive clarification on pope Francis sacking bishops like bishop Strickland, who has not been convicted or even accused of any canonical violation. Would any ANCA bishop be safe if bishop Strickland can be removed for no canonical reason?

It's a two way street. The ANCA would have to accept what's going on in the Catholic Church. Maybe they will want to wait until a more mainstream pope is elected.

 

[AlexB23]

We can pray so. IIRC the RCC and EO already recognize one another's Holy Orders.

I will pray for that, as Catholics and Orthodox are similar.

 

[AlexB23]

The Catholic Church recognizes Orthodox Holy Orders. Recognizes all of the Orthodox sacraments. Catholics can rightly approach the Orthodox for communion if they do not have access to a Catholic Church, if the Orthodox agree. Catholics allow the Orthodox the same, if the Orthodox agree. OTOH the Orthodox don't all accept the validity of baptism done in the Catholic Church. Some do, some don't, some wave their hands and say 'economia' and give the whole issue a pass.

I don't expect to see the Orthodox Churches and the Catholic Church to come into any sort of synch in my lifetime. I have been praying for it now for decades. And I'll keep praying. I think it more likely that the Catholics and ANCA would agree in my lifetime.

It is good that the Catholic Church recognizes Orthodox sacraments. Hopefully over the next few years and decades, the Catholics and Orthodox become compatible with each other.

 

[RileyG]

I will pray for that, as Catholics and Orthodox are similar.

Essentially, yes, because they have valid bishops therefore they have valid sacraments.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I am going to be cross posting this in both the Anglican and RCC forums for input from both groups. Can anyone comment on the potential full communion and recognition of ACNA Holy Orders? I came across this article and it is compelling to believe that we may be on the cusp of full communion between Rome and the ACNA. But how would that actually play out?
Article: Rome Moves Toward 'Full Communion' With Orthodox Anglicans

I should add to this that the ANCA internal debate on deaconesses also matters to reunion. It is brought up on occasion in Catholic circles as well, but it ends up being resolved so far as that deaconesses are not ordained but appointed assistants for the baptism of women, where male assistants would not be appropriate. Catholic teaching on ordination considers deacons to be ordained. ANCA ordination of women deacons would be as much an impediment to union as women priests or women bishops. So if he ANCA could figure out what they want to do with this ....

Also I should add that the ground has shifted since the Catholic Church declared Anglican ordinations null and void. This is because various Anglicans started finding validly consecrated but independent (not Catholic or Orthodox) bishops to consecrate new Anglican bishops. It is still problematical, but most Anglican bishops now have some sort of valid consecration and can, in theory at least, validly ordain priests. So, without repudiating the Catholic teaching on the invalidity of Anglican orders at that time, it needs to be restudied under the current circumstances. I doubt there would be an outright acceptance, but I could see a conditional ordination and reception might be acceptable to all sides. Note this also means the mainstream Episcopalian/Welby Anglican ordinations may be largely valid, and that the African Anglican ordinations may also be largely valid from a Catholic perspective.

 

[concretecamper]

Can anyone comment on the potential full communion and recognition of ACNA Holy Orders?

It is 100% guaranteed if a Male Anglican Priest swims the Tiber and becomes Catholic.

 

[RileyG]

I will pray for that, as Catholics and Orthodox are similar.

Papal primacy, purgatory, the immaculate conception, the filioque, among others are several doctrines that keep us separated.

 

[AlexB23]

Papal primacy, purgatory, the immaculate conception, the filioque, among others are several doctrines that keep us separated.

At least, Orthodox and Catholics are both Christian.

 

[RileyG]

At least, Orthodox and Catholics are both Christian.

Indeed.

 

[AlexB23]

Indeed.

Amen to that.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Papal primacy, purgatory, the immaculate conception, the filioque, among others are several doctrines that keep us separated.

The Orthodox once believed the bishop of Rome was first among equals, they do pray for the dead, they believe Mary was sinless, and they were able to tolerate the filioque until they couldn’t. What keeps us separate is the will to stay separate. Were it up to Catholics we could be reunited tomorrow.

 

[RileyG]

The Orthodox once believed the bishop of Rome was first among equals, they do pray for the dead, they believe Mary was sinless, and they were able to tolerate the filioque until they couldn’t. What keeps us separate is the will to stay separate. Were it up to Catholics we could be reunited tomorrow.

Absolutely! It's just how the interpret purgatory (they don't believe in a literal fire, but do believe prayers help the righteous and unrighteous dead), and how Mary CHOSE to remain sinless voluntarily.

They believe in ancestral sin, not original sin, if I understand correctly. They don't use the same terminology from St. Augustine or St. Anselm.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Absolutely! It's just how the interpret purgatory (they don't believe in a literal fire, but do believe prayers help the righteous and unrighteous dead), and how Mary CHOSE to remain sinless voluntarily.

They believe in ancestral sin, not original sin, if I understand correctly. They don't use the same terminology from St. Augustine or St. Anselm.

Some of them reject Augustine entirely while others do consider him a saint.

Original sin is the most empirical of doctrines. We are bent from birth.

 

[tampasteve]

Thanks for your input everyone, it seems like it is more of a wishful hope than reality, which is kind of what I thought. Really any ACNA parish or dioceses that wanted to go in union with Rome could just join the Ordinate, as some have done in the past.