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Can you be Christian and believe in evolution?

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Ace777

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Bible contains various non-literal genres and mythological elements is one of them, for example Leviathan, Rahab, Flood, Giants etc.
When did you study mythology to become an expert on the subject?
You can be a Christian without ever reading the modern Bible.
We are mostly talking about the book of Genesis. Jesus quoted Genesis. Paul and Jesus talked about the law of God. If I had the torah, psalms and sermon on the mount I would be content with that.
 
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trophy33

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When did you study mythology to become an expert on the subject?
I do not think there is a degree in my country to study mythology. However, I am interested in the biblical cultural context. If you want some sources to learn more about it, I can give you some links or names of experts.

We are mostly talking about the book of Genesis. Jesus quoted Genesis. Paul and Jesus talked about the law of God. If I had the torah, psalms and sermon on the mount I would be content with that.
I have quoted Genesis or other places from the Mosaic Law, too. It does not follow that Genesis is a literal, scientific history, though. People also quoted Psalms and other non-literal genres, without making it to be scientific or literal.

Or that there is a literal flat earth with the literal firmament, that we are from literal dust or that God will literally kill the the literal hydra (Leviathan) in the seas.
 
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Ace777

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I do not think there is a degree in my country to study mythology
While it’s true that not all countries offer specific degrees in mythology, some universities around the world do provide programs related to folklore studies and mythology. If you’re interested, you might consider exploring institutions abroad or online options. Here are a few notable universities that offer folklore studies programs:
University of California, Berkeley


  1. University of California-Berkeley: Offers a Folklore Studies degree program1.
Harvard University


  1. Harvard University: Provides a Folklore Studies program1.
University of Wisconsin–Madison


  1. University of Wisconsin-Madison: Offers coursework in Folklore Studies1.
Indiana University Bloomington

Indiana University Bloomington


  1. Indiana University-Bloomington: Has a strong Folklore Studies department with various degree options1.
University of Pennsylvania


  1. University of Pennsylvania: Offers a Folklore Studies program1.
 
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Ace777

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It does not follow that Genesis is a literal, scientific history, though.
Genesis is exactly that. There are hundreds of thousands of book in the Library of MIT and Harvard University that help explain what we learn in Genesis chapter one because this covers all of creation. John 21 25 "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written".

Just pick one subject Botney. There are PHD's that teach at the Universities of Jerusalem that have studied how the wild plants of the middle east became domesticated. The very same plants we read about in our Bible and Noah had on the ark to save them from the flood. They do not write a lot of books but they do publish in peer reviewed journals.

 
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trophy33

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While it’s true that not all countries offer specific degrees in mythology, some universities around the world do provide programs related to folklore studies and mythology. If you’re interested, you might consider exploring institutions abroad or online options. Here are a few notable universities that offer folklore studies programs:
University of California, Berkeley


  1. University of California-Berkeley: Offers a Folklore Studies degree program1.
Harvard University


  1. Harvard University: Provides a Folklore Studies program1.
University of Wisconsin–Madison


  1. University of Wisconsin-Madison: Offers coursework in Folklore Studies1.
Indiana University Bloomington

Indiana University Bloomington


  1. Indiana University-Bloomington: Has a strong Folklore Studies department with various degree options1.
University of Pennsylvania


  1. University of Pennsylvania: Offers a Folklore Studies program1.
If you enlist me in some of these universities and arrange all the visa, accommodation, money, transportation etc, I will think about it. If not, I do not think its worth the hassle, because I do not need it, I am fine with reading or watching the materials, using bible dictionaries etc.
 
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Ace777

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I am fine with reading or watching the materials, using bible dictionaries etc.
Then you would know that words you can use are: allegory, metaphor, archetype, homiletics, symbolic, paradigm, parables, and on and on and on. : So with all of those words to choose from I would think you could refrain from using the word "myth". As a general rule we study greek mythology in high school. It is not that popular but we learn enough so we know what is myth and what is not. The Bible is clearly not a myth.

  1. Allegory: An allegory is a more complex narrative device that uses symbolic figures, actions, and imagery to convey deeper moral, spiritual, or political meanings. Every element in an allegory represents something beyond its literal appearance. For example, George Orwell’s “Animal Farm” is an allegory that critiques Soviet communism through the story of a farm animal rebellion1.
  2. Metaphor: While both allegory and metaphor use symbolism, metaphors operate on a smaller scale. They typically occur within a phrase or sentence, where one thing is directly compared to another. For instance, “Time is a thief” is a metaphor that equates time to a thief, emphasizing its ability to steal moments2.
  3. Archetype: An archetype is a recurring symbol, character, or theme found across different cultures and literature. These universal patterns represent fundamental human experiences. Examples include the “hero,” “trickster,” or “wise old mentor.”
  4. Homiletics: Homiletics refers to the art of preaching or delivering sermons. It involves studying effective communication techniques to convey religious or moral messages to an audience.
  5. Symbolic: Symbolism involves using symbols (objects, actions, or concepts) to represent deeper meanings. For instance, a red rose might symbolize love, while a broken mirror could symbolize shattered illusions.
  6. Paradigm: A paradigm is a model, pattern, or framework that shapes our understanding of a particular subject. It often represents a shift in thinking or a new way of approaching a problem.
  7. Parables: Parables are succinct, didactic stories that illustrate moral or spiritual lessons. They use common, everyday experiences to teach profound truths. Jesus’ parables in the New Testament, such as “The Parable of the Good Samaritan,” exemplify this form of storytelling1.

There are more that are not Bible but we can still look at them

  1. Epiphany: An epiphany is a sudden realization or understanding, often leading to personal growth or change. It’s a moment of clarity or insight. For example, when a character in a story suddenly understands the truth about their past, it can be considered an epiphany.
  2. Foreshadowing: Foreshadowing is a technique where an author hints at future events in a story. These hints create anticipation and build tension. For instance, if a character dreams of a storm before a shipwreck occurs, that’s foreshadowing.
  3. Irony: Irony involves a contrast between expectation and reality. There are several types of irony:
    • Verbal irony: Saying one thing but meaning the opposite (e.g., “Nice weather!” during a thunderstorm).
    • Situational irony: When the outcome is different from what’s expected (e.g., a fire station burning down).
    • Dramatic irony: The audience knows something the characters don’t (e.g., Romeo and Juliet’s tragic fate).
  4. Motif: A motif is a recurring theme, symbol, or idea in a work of literature. It adds depth and connects different parts of the story. For example, the green light in F. Scott Fitzgerald’s “The Great Gatsby” symbolizes unattainable dreams.
  5. Satire: Satire uses humor, irony, or exaggeration to criticize and expose flaws in society, institutions, or individuals. It aims to provoke thought and change. Works like Jonathan Swift’s “Gulliver’s Travels” are classic examples of satire.
  6. Catharsis: Catharsis refers to the emotional release or purification experienced by the audience when witnessing a character’s intense suffering or transformation. Greek tragedies often evoke catharsis.
 
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trophy33

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Then you would know that words you can use are:
There is no list of allowed genres we can use, regarding the Bible. For example, Leviathan or Rahab are obviously mythical creatures, you can do nothing with that.

So with all of those words to choose from I would think you could refrain from using the word "myth".
No need to refrain from using the word. Myths were a common part of ancient cultures.

As a general rule we study greek mythology in high school.
High school? Thats a bit unsatisfactory. You need to continue learning after a high school.

The Bible is clearly not a myth.
Bible is not a myth, its literally, materially existing library of books. Bible contains various non-literal genres, including myths.


Why do you refuse to read Genesis in its cultural context?
 
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Platte

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Yes, Bible is not a myth, its a library of texts. It literally exists.
When Ace777 replied to your text stating that the Bible is not a myth. You knew he was referring to your claims that the text within was a myth? Not the book itself.

That being said, why would you reply to his comment like he was referring to the book itself. It’s not the first time you’ve done that. Not cool. You’ve already confirm your belief that The Bible is not the Word of God - we get it.
 
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trophy33

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When Ace777 replied to your text stating that the Bible is not a myth. You knew he was referring to your claims that the text within was a myth? Not the book itself.That being said, why would you reply to his comment like he was referring to the book itself. It’s not the first time you’ve done that. Not cool.
Its a nonsensical statement, similar to "Bible is not a song". It reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of what we are talking about. Bible containing myths does not equal Bible being a myth or exclusively composed of myths.

You’ve already confirm your belief that The Bible is not the Word of God - we get it.
Its neither written, composed, translated nor dictated by God. Its great you get it.
 
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Platte

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I said that several times. Bible is a library of ancient books and if you are lazy or unwilling to learn about their context, you will not understand what you are reading.
I understand clearly what the Bible says. You are the one making up beliefs and making claims that are ridiculous, not Biblical and is not backed up in the Bible by those in the NT for example who quote scripture from the past in their words
Depends on the definition. Its not a direct dictation by God, no.


Depends on the definition. Bible did not fall from heaven, it was written, copied, edited, composed, edited again, canonized, translated by.... *drums* a lot of people. The underlying text is being changed/worked on by various scholars as we speak, to publish a new, better version. Do you wish to know more?
What I mean is God provided us with the Bible for His purpose and the Bible is presented to us exactly as HE desired.
P.S.: I am still waiting for you to answer what specifically did you do for studying the text of Genesis, as I told you what I did. Just throwing your claims is not enough, if the only thing you did was reading it in your English Bible. If you boast that you believe Genesis is the word of God, why is it such a problem for you to tell us what textual versions, what original languages, what tools, materials or lectures have you used to understand it?
There is no English Bible. There is only a Bible translated into English from the original text. Your opinion that you have to be a Hebrew expert to understand the Bible is sad. Assuming you are an English speaking person all you are doing is trying to learn Hebrew so that you can translate it to your English understanding. And you are telling me that the English translation of the Bible is not correct? That YOU have correct translation despite the thousand of scholars who have translated different English versions that all present Genesis the same way. As 6 24 hour days.
Get over yourself.
 
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Platte

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It’s neither written, composed, translated nor dictated by God. It’s great you get it.
Oh yeah you don’t believe God created life on earth either. It evolved. Smh.
Do you even believe that Jesus actually died? Was dead for 3 days then was risen back to life? And rose up into the clouds to prepare a place for us? Do you believe that you can be resurrected when you die too by accepting Jesus?
 
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trophy33

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I understand clearly what the Bible says.
You proved you have no idea what you are reading.

You are the one making up beliefs and making claims that are ridiculous, not Biblical and is not backed up in the Bible by those in the NT for example who quote scripture from the past in their words
I am not making it up, you can check it for example here:


What I mean is God provided us with the Bible for His purpose and the Bible is presented to us exactly as HE desired.
Thats fine, until you try to force the Bible to be written with the scientific worldview, unknown to the original writers and readers.

There is no English Bible. There is only a Bible translated into English from the original text. Your opinion that you have to be a Hebrew expert to understand the Bible is sad. Assuming you are an English speaking person all you are doing is trying to learn Hebrew so that you can translate it to your English understanding. And you are telling me that the English translation of the Bible is not correct? That YOU have correct translation despite the thousand of scholars who have translated different English versions that all present Genesis the same way. As 6 24 hour days.
Get over yourself.
For the third time, you evaded my question what exactly did you do to study Genesis 1 or Genesis 2. So you left me with nothing more than to suppose you do not have any broader knowledge in this area.
 
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trophy33

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Oh yeah you don’t believe God created life on earth either. It evolved. Smh.
You evolved, your dog evolved, your cat evolved, the chicken or the cow you are eating evolved, the tree in your garden evolved. God created the universe, but not in the state we see today.

Do you even believe that Jesus actually died? Was dead for 3 days then was risen back to life? And rose up into the clouds to prepare a place for us? Do you believe that you can be resurrected when you die too by accepting Jesus?
Yes:
1. Its the part of the Christian creeds
2. The gospels are not written in a mythological form


Let me ask you questions:
Do you believe in the flat earth? If not, why not?
Do you believe in sea dragons, three tier cosmology or that dinosaurs ate melons and all animals were immortal before the fall?
 
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Platte

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Yes:
1. Its the part of the Christian creeds
2. The gospels are not written in a mythological form
Even though resurrection is scientifically impossible? And did you study the Greek texts of that claim?
 
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trophy33

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Even though resurrection is scientifically impossible? And did you study the Greek texts of that claim?
It not scientifically impossible.

Yes, I read the NT in Greek and I changed several textual versions in the past. I began with the Textus Receptus, then switched to Robinson-Pierpont majority text and ended up with Nestlé-Aland. Actually, I think the first pages of the Greek New Testament I learnt the biblical Greek with were some kind of the minority text (of John's letters) and only after that I ordered the Textus Receptus.

What about you?
Do you believe in the flat earth? If not, why not?
Do you believe in sea dragons, three tier cosmology or that tyrannosaurus ate melons and all animals were immortal before the fall?
 
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Ace777

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Even though resurrection is scientifically impossible?
How is it impossible. If they had called 911 perhaps they could have revived him. There was a reason why they placed a guard at the tomb. How long had Lazarus been in the tomb and Jesus revived him. I do not even remember how many times they have revived me. The doctors use to use the term spontaneous remission. Some people can beat 3% odds of survival. I am alive when my chance of survival was less than 1%. People are not impressed by that. They say the odds of winning a lottery are a billion to one yet there is still a winner.
 
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Platte

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It not scientifically impossible.

Yes, I read the NT in Greek and I changed several textual versions in the past. I began with the Textus Receptus, then switched to Robinson-Pierpont majority text and ended up with Nestlé-Aland. Actually, I think the first pages of the Greek New Testament I learnt the biblical Greek with were some kind of the minority text (of John's letters) and only after that I ordered the Textus Receptus.

What about you?
Do you believe in the flat earth? If not, why not?
Do you believe in sea dragons, three tier cosmology or that tyrannosaurus ate melons and all animals were immortal before the fall?
I’ll reply to Biblical questions. I do not believe animals or anyone was immortal before the fall.
 
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trophy33

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I’ll reply to Biblical questions. I do not believe animals or anyone was immortal before the fall.
Why should we give you biblical questions? How did you study the Bible, what do you know about it?
 
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Platte

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How is it impossible. If they had called 911 perhaps they could have revived him. There was a reason why they placed a guard at the tomb. How long had Lazarus been in the tomb and Jesus revived him. I do not even remember how many times they have revived me. The doctors use to use the term spontaneous remission. Some people can beat 3% odds of survival. I am alive when my chance of survival was less than 1%. People are not impressed by that. They say the odds of winning a lottery are a billion to one yet there is still a winner.
A person dead for 3 days can be revived?
 
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