Can you be Christian and believe in evolution?

[truthpls]

God said, God saw God and God called.

OK.

Man wrote. God did write the commandments, they are in the ark wherever that is.

God writes using people. That is like writing a post on a forum in some ways. You see words and read them, that someone wrote. In the case of the bible, the source was God. If someone dictates words to a secretary or relative or something, and they type them or write them and send them, we do not credit the secretary as the author. When, for example, John was taken up to heaven and told and shown many things, John was told to write them down. Write what he heard.

Along with the manna, Gods provision and the Staff, Gods leadership.

Genesis 1 3 And God said, “Let there be light,”a and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.”

That is a bible verse, yes. Yes there was day and night. Yes it was good, etc

 

[Ace777]

Proof?

Proof for what? Is there a reason why I have to give you "proof" for something? You are free to believe whatever you want.

 

[truthpls]

Didn't I just write a post on how the firmament effects the light from the sun, moon and stars. You can filter, refract and reflect light. Like a stained glass window the firmament has a effect on the light as it passes through.

Since the place God made the stars (space) is big, why mention how our sun does things with light? I am not sure that the sun refracts much out in the extremes of the universe? Since there were no stars or sun on the first days of creation here either, what is your point?

 

[truthpls]

Proof for what? Is there a reason why I have to give you "proof" for something? You are free to believe whatever you want.

You made the claim that there was no time at the speed of light. I asked for proof. Now you point out it is belief? Try to present your beliefs as such.

 

[trophy33]

Initial state and conditions:

Day 1: God created the heaven and the earth and light
Day 2: God created a separation of water
Day 3: God created the dry land by gathering together of the waters, God created plants and their yielding seeds
Day 4: God created the sun, moon, stars
Day 5: God created every living creature in the sea and the birds.
Day 6: God created every living creature on earth - including man/woman
Day 7: God rested

Man and woman were created on day 6. Creation took 6 days to complete - approximately 6000 years ago

Genesis is not literal. You can see it for example when it mentions firmament and calls the moon to be just a light in the firmament.

It reflects ideas of the bronze age Mesopotamian people. Which is fine, if we realize what we are reading. When we start misusing it and reading science into it, it gets unusable pretty fast.

 

[Ace777]

You made the claim that there was no time at the speed of light. I asked for proof.

Oh that is based on Einstein's law of relativity. Neil DeGrasse on Youtube can explain that better then me. Or you can do a google search. The speed of light can be measured using a time-of-flight method, which is based on the fact that light travels a finite distance in a finite amount of time. The method involves measuring how long it takes for light to travel a certain distance and then comparing that measurement to the speed of radio waves.

 

[Ace777]

Genesis is not literal.

Everything in the Bible is literal.

 

[Platte]

Genesis is not literal. You can see it for example when it mentions firmament and calls the moon to be just a light in the firmament.

It reflects ideas of the bronze age Mesopotamian people. Which is fine, if we realize what we are reading. When we start misusing it and reading science into it, it gets unusable pretty fast.

Ok - that makes sense - but you agree that if we take Genesis as written (literal) then Creation was approximately 6000 years ago and took six 24 hours days to complete?

 

[truthpls]

Thats fine, but its not a scientific point. Its a theological point. And it does not mean that Genesis is literal or even scientific.

Yes it is science. Science is the way things work, not just the way things work that man detects today. If there is power with God, and that causes the universe to hold together (including gravity and the nuclear forces etc) then that is extremely scientific. You don't get to say 'man doesn't understand what gravity really is, or the actual cause of the forces that exist, or how physical material can come into existence by His words etc' and then claim some monopoly on the word science for your little comprehension skill set. So the depth of meaning for God speaking and causing all things to exist suddenly the way He ordered them to exist is super science. You do not get to say it is not scientific!

This is not a a proper argument.

You offering a source that claimed that Gen 1 and 2 contradict each other. They don't. Not in any way. Pointing out your source is bogus, and tossed out and Satanically wrong is a valid point indeed.

I do not claim that the scientific view is compatible with the literal reading of Genesis. Actually, I claim the opposite, the whole time. Bible is not a scientific library/book.

In other words, science is too limited to know Genesis is correct. So you want to imagine that it therefore is not scientific. Not my problem. It is super duper higher science. The inability of man's science to comprehend that simply means that it is a gracious compliment for us to actually call man's modern science science at all.

I do not dream about anything of this kind. If you are interested in what the people in the ancient Near East meant by the firmament and what kind of cosmology they had, you must simply study it, it will not come without an effort.

What people? Believers? Heathen? It all depends on who says stuff.

 

[KathrynAragon]

I don't personally believe that the Bible, which is a collection of books by many different authors over thousands of years, is a science book or a history book. I believe it is a book of spiritual truths. Period.

 

[truthpls]

Oh that is based on Einstein's law of relativity.

So it is impossible to prove then, fine. Obviously you will not ride a spaceship coming in to earth from many light years away and see someone in another ship coming from earth to validate your little claim

Neil DeGrasse on Youtube can explain that better then me. Or you can do a google search. The speed of light can be measured using a time-of-flight method, which is based on the fact that light travels a finite distance in a finite amount of time.

Light cannot be measured to any real degree to apply that idea to anywhere but the earth. You don't get to make a grand statement about stars and time.

The method involves measuring how long it takes for light to travel a certain distance and then comparing that measurement to the speed of radio waves.

As above. That cannot be applied to a claim earth was not here first.

 

[truthpls]

I don't personally believe that the Bible, which is a collection of books by many different authors over thousands of years, is a science book or a history book. I believe it is a book of spiritual truths. Period.

If God is real then He is a Spirit and a spirit created all things. That means one spiritual truth is that material things can be created by spirits.

 

[trophy33]

Everything in the Bible is literal.

Of course not. For example, Jesus is not the door of sheep, literally (J 10:7)

 

[trophy33]

Ok - that makes sense - but you agree that if we take Genesis as written (literal) then Creation was approximately 6000 years ago and took six 24 hours days to complete?

No, Genesis defines neither hours nor how long ago it is placed in.

 

[trophy33]

Yes it is science. Science is the way things work, not just the way things work that man detects today.

Genesis does not describe how the physical world works. Thats not the purpose of Genesis.

You offering a source that claimed that Gen 1 and 2 contradict each other. They don't. Not in any way. Pointing out your source is bogus, and tossed out and Satanically wrong is a valid point indeed.

This is not a proper argument.

In other words, science is too limited to know Genesis is correct. So you want to imagine that it therefore is not scientific. Not my problem. It is super duper higher science. The inability of man's science to comprehend that simply means that it is a gracious compliment for us to actually call man's modern science science at all.

A word salad.

What people? Believers? Heathen? It all depends on who says stuff.

It does not actually depends on who. The flat earth cosmology was common for basically all ancient cultures. They all thought that the firmament is a solid dome in the shape of a bowl, that there is ocean or waters above it and waters under the Earth.

There was no difference in this cosmology between Yahwist Jews, Egypt, Native Americans, Babylon or Japanese, for example. Only the theological context was different.

You may learn more here:

 

[Platte]

No, Genesis defines neither hours nor how long ago it is placed in.

Ok -thanks - so Exodus 20:11 doesn't tell us how long it took either? and if you took someone saying "a day" literally you wouldn't know that meant 24 hours?

 

[trophy33]

Ok -thanks - so Exodus 20:11 doesn't tell us how long it took either? and if you took someone saying "a day" literally you wouldn't know that meant 24 hours?

Its 24 hours just because of the current rotation of our planet. Its different on Mars and again different on the Moon.

If we read Genesis wrongly (literally), even then it says nothing about the speed of the rotation. Actually, it does not even have the concept of the Earth's rotation, it simply placed the sun in the firmament. Biblical cosmology had no idea what a planet is.

 

[Platte]

Of course not. For example, Jesus is not the door of sheep, literally (J 10:7)

Great example - and when Jesus says I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. that's not literal either. I think I'm starting to get how you think.

 

[Platte]

Its 24 hours just because of the current rotation of our planet. Its different on Mars and again different on the Moon.

If we read Genesis wrongly (literally), even then it says nothing about the speed of the rotation.

OH ok - the speed of the rotation changed...that pretty intuitive. Thanks

 

[trophy33]

OH ok - the speed of the rotation changed...that pretty intuitive. Thanks

You will get into various troubles, when you will try to force Genesis to be read scientifically.

Genesis does not even mention any rotation, because the concept of planets and of the Sun as a huge star in the solar system was unknown to them. Genesis simply placed the sun into the firmament - reflecting their cosmological views - geocentrism and flat earth.