My take on Mother of God

[tonychanyt]

The term Mother of God is not in the Scripture. I neither believe nor disbelieve it. I approach it indifferently. I prefer to adhere to Scripture's wording when it comes to doctrines. I would not bother using the term in the formal doctrinal sense. I would put little weight on it when others use it in an argument. People who like to generalize tend to overgeneralize in a doctrine. More precisely, I know the following:

Matthew 12:

46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”
48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

Mary was Jesus' biological mother. When it comes to doctrines, I'd rather stick to the wording of the Bible.

See also

• “WOMAN, why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”
• My take on Trinity.

 

[Stephen Andrew]

True Tony,

And thanks for your energy, through your faith in Christ as the most loved disciple, like John who took Her home with him, from the cross.
Mary was with him for perhaps 40 years and John wrote The Gospel According to John and Revelations. I often ponder who exactaly wrote the books, perhaps with the help of the Queen of Council, Mary.

Looking into the logic of the spirit will of God, this is just what I perceive in logic for those to share in a deeper perhaps upgraded version of His will, in logic, only. If I have incorrectly stated with respect to the teachings of Christ, thanks in advance for any correction in faith and logic of the spirit will of the Father.

Mary is logically the Biological Mother of Christ's flesh and God is the spiritual Father of His "Holy" Spirit through the Body of Mary, The Immaculate Conception, The Christ in US as as all mankind, adopted brothers and sisters of Christ from the cross when he looked at the disciple he loves the most, as He loves all of His disciples with His most love and said, to you, called you by name before you were ever born and said, Tony, "Disciple, Ecce Mater tua." Behold your Mother.

Mary is His biological mother in the flesh, yet never sinned and remained sanctified in flesh and spirit for Her entire life. She was never going to die of the flesh, just like Her Son. Jesus received His humanity from Mary, who herself was a daughter of Eve in the flesh. Again, from the perspective of causality, the flesh that Jesus received, which the Eternal Word needed to redeem us, came from Eve as well as Adam, but In the spirit of God. The Holy Spirit will of God was given to Mary by a singular, spectacular Grace from God. And we know she is conceived without sin and in Her soul is the will of The Father as sanctified and in Her flesh she never sinned and remained sanctified. Mary was ready to die but could not, until, like Her Son, was Baptized in spirit through the flesh to the soul of the being, only to be able to become gloriously transfigured into becoming into the spirit image of the Father in perfection logic information. Jesus was baptized by the greatest ever born among men and to me this is because through Baptism, Christ now can die and resurrect glorified of the flesh, sanctified and soul as the Holy Spirit person from conception and become transfigured. Mary wanted to be just like Her Son, glorified and transfigured. Some say Baptism is a sacrament of the Dead to life of the flesh, and Penance is also, dead to life but for the failed spirit, to become sanctified for the regeneration of the Will of the Father for the spirit to be able to transfigured from the transformation becoming immortal and incorruptible through the baptism of John becoming transfigured gloriously into the image of God, The Creator, The Father. And Mary too, wanted to die and be glorified like her Son and so Christ Baptized Her for the assumption and glorious transformation for Mary returning to Heaven. We know Mary came from the flesh of Eve and spirit from the Immaculate Conception, but Christ came from the flesh of Mary, conceived by the Person of the Holy Spirit, which all mankind now shares as one in being together with the father and The Son, glorified and transfigured becoming His image. Christ flesh as Mary's required Baptism to die and resurrect glorified. We become immortal and incorruptible through the Baptism of John and become members of the Church of The Body of Christ as immortal and incorruptible in the flesh and to be able to die and resurrect becoming glorified and transfigured.

Mary, born of Eve and Christ, born of Eve of the flesh but spirit of God and Mary did not need Baptism for the spirit, and for the flesh they were baptized mankind immortal and incorruptible and through Baptism and death of the flesh are able to gloriously transfigure.

To me the logic follows, We become through Baptism immortal and incorruptible from Adam and Eve's failed spirit and flesh and we are allowed, as becoming confirmed and re-sanctified and the Holy Spirit through Penance and Communion as regenerated sanctified through Penance to be resurrected, glorified and transfigured in the Flesh and spirit in the soul of the being.

Thanks again, and please advise if this is in proper order with respect to His teachings.


Peace always,
Stephen

 

[Josheb]

The term Mother of God is not in the Scripture. I neither believe nor disbelieve it. I approach it indifferently. I prefer to adhere to Scripture's wording when it comes to doctrines. I would not bother using the term in the formal doctrinal sense. I would put little weight on it when others use it in an argument. People who like to generalize tend to overgeneralize in a doctrine. More precisely, I know the following:

Matthew 12:


Mary was Jesus' biological mother.....

Where does the Bible state Mary was Jesus' biological mother?

Do you have some verse in scripture stating she contributed an ovum?
Was Mary a sinner? (the same people who call her the mother of God claim she was made sinless)
If she was a sinner then how do you reconcile the sinfully sinful Mary contributing an ovum of sinful flesh with the fact Jesus was sinless and knew no sin (ontologically, teleologically, cognitively, emotionally, volitionally, behaviorally, or relationally)? If Mary contributed an earthly ovum then how do you reconcile that with the fact Jesus was monogenes (which literally means "single-origin," or "one-source")? Scripture cites only the Holy Spirit as the origin of her conception.

Jesus was the woman God used as a vessel, and the one who raised Jesus, placed in the role of raising Jesus as his earthly mother but that is not the same thing as contributing an earthly, biological ovum of sinful flesh.

I prefer to adhere to Scripture's wording when it comes to doctrines. I would not bother using the term in the formal doctrinal sense.

But that is exactly what has happened with the premise Mary contributed something of her flesh to Jesus' conception.

I would put little weight on it when others use it in an argument. People who like to generalize tend to overgeneralize in a doctrine..........When it comes to doctrines, I'd rather stick to the wording of the Bible.

On this occasion it appears you have violated your own standards and bought into a doctrine that has been long held, but one founded on something the Bible never actually states. Why has Mary being his mother been generalized to say she was his biological mother?

Jesus is pre-existent (John 1). Before Abraham Jesus Am (Jn. 8:58). Jesus existed in the form of God but did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, He emptied Himself, taking the form of a bondservant and was made in the likeness of men (Php. 2:7-8). Scripture states he was conceived by the Holy Spirit (Mt. 1:18), not the Holy Spirit and an ovum from sinful Mary. The transliteration of Matthew 1:18 is "found in the womb having a child out of the Spirit". Jesus is the prophesied seed of a woman (Gen. 3:15) and the seed of Abraham (Gen. 12:7, 22:18) but never does scripture state biological material from sinful humans was used to fulfill that prophecy. Jesus is the last Adam and the first Adam was made from nothing (he was made from the dust of the earth, but the dust of the earth was made ex nihilo).

Tradition says she is his biological mother and premise she contributed a female zygote can be used to support the trinitarian teaching Jesus is fully God and fully human (a doctrine I embrace), but there's no verse that actually, explicitly states Mary literally contributed any biological material to Jesus' conception.

 

[Josheb]

Mary is logically the Biological Mother of Christ's flesh.....

"Logically"? Scripture explicitly states Jesus is "monogenes." The word is translated as "only begotten," but the word literally means "one origin," or "single source."

John 3:16 KJV
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten [monogene] Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Mone = one, single, or only. Gene = origin, birth, descent.

Jesus' origin, his birth, his descent is said to be one, not two and not one+one. Scripture attributes the conception to the Holy Spirit, not the Holy Spirit and Mary. She was just the vessel carrying what the Spirit conceived within her. So, what is the "logic" saying the one-origined Jesus has a biological mother of Jesus' flesh? More accurately, what is the scripture-based logic?

Mary is His biological mother in the flesh....

Got scripture for that?



Why have we bought into a tradition that doesn't have much if any basis in what is explicitly stated in scripture? Why have we assumed otherwise normal earthly, fleshly biology was used by God when can make a man out of nothing and Jesus is pre-existent?

 

[tonychanyt]

Mary is His biological mother in the flesh, yet never sinned and remained sanctified in flesh and spirit for Her entire life.

Check out Did Jesus have siblings? and follow up there

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Mary is His biological mother in the flesh, yet never sinned and remained sanctified in flesh and spirit for Her entire life.

Mary was a sinner, like everyone born of Adam and Eve, bar Jesus who was conceived by the Holy Spirit. Mary her self calls Gos her Saviour in Luke 1 47. If she was without sin, she wouldn't need a Saviour.

To me the logic follows, We become through Baptism immortal and incorruptible from

We need to be born of the Holy Spirit. Baptism of water does not save anyone. We are saved by grace, by faith, and not by deeds. Anyone can get water baptized, but it will do nothing unless one believe Christ's gospel and repents.

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

The term Mother of God is not in the Scripture. I neither believe nor disbelieve it. I approach it indifferently. I prefer to adhere to Scripture's wording when it comes to doctrines. I would not bother using the term in the formal doctrinal sense. I would put little weight on it when others use it in an argument. People who like to generalize tend to overgeneralize in a doctrine. More precisely, I know the following:

Matthew 12:


Mary was Jesus' biological mother. When it comes to doctrines, I'd rather stick to the wording of the Bible.

See also

• “WOMAN, why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”
• My take on Trinity.

The doctrine Mary is the 'mother of God' / 'God-bearer' (theotokos) is the result of Trinitarian theology in overdrive. This terminology dates back from the 3rd century CE (and indeed cannot be found in the Bible). First official confirmation seems to have been at the Council of Ephesus (431 CE).

"The Council of Ephesus was convened to address the Nestorian controversy. Nestorius, the Patriarch of Constantinople, argued that Mary should be called "Christotokos" (Christ-bearer) rather than "Theotokos" (God-bearer) because he believed it more accurately reflected her role as the mother of Christ's human nature, not his divine nature. The council declared Nestorius's view heretical and affirmed that Jesus Christ is one person with two natures, divine and human, united, thus making Mary the Theotokos."

Mary has always been perceived as blessed (the Gospels directly state that), and her perpetual virginity nearly universally professed, but throughout early Church history her person increasingly was viewed as pure/holy/etc. (possibly in parallel to the rise of asceticism in the church). In the Middle-Ages (St. Andrew of Crete (660–740 CE), St. John Damascene (676–749 CE), St. Bernard of Clairvaux (1090–1153 CE)) this formally developed into the doctrine of Mary's immaculate/sinless nature.

Once one observes the progression in thinking it's easier to unwind the human additions to Biblical revelation.

GOD is a spirit, invisible, immortal, above all creation. It's obviously preposterous to state/think Mary was the mother of GOD. It's the other way around: GOD is the Father of Mary !

Yet about Christ we know: 'god was the word' / 'all fullness of deity dwells in Him' - yet He proclaimed to be the Son of GOD (=the Father / YHWH). He is the exact image / representation of GOD. He who does not do or say anything except for what His father instructs Him to do, and seated at the right hand of YHWH. And Christ has received/inherited the name above all names.

The only way to solve this conundrum is to distinguish between the one true GOD (= the Father according to John 17:3) and god (theos/elohim) as nature/substance/essence - and in that sense it also applies to Christ. And we could even say is Christ is GOD in the representation sense of being the exact imprint of GOD. But YHWH and Yeshua are two distinct beings as many Psalms show. This does not take away anything from Yeshua's divinity or his pre-existence - the Bible fully supports those.

 

[Stephen Andrew]

Peace to all,

True, and thanks for the great information for all to share as support.

To me the trinity is three persons in one, the Father and the Son and The Holy Spirit. The Arc of the New Covenant carried two to earth, through the Immaculate Conception and the Virgin Birth of of The Christ, conceived by The Person of the Holy Spirit, The Paraclete. The Son and the Holy Spirit together with the Power of The Holy Spirit person in the person of The Christ, Jesus fulfilled all faith and morality in the New Covenant and from the cross, what was left is the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit will of God. From the cross, Jesus gave up the "Ghost" for all mankind to share as one in being together with the Father and The Son for the Holy Spirit in the soul of the being to glorify and transfigure US, all mankind transformed, re-imaged, sanctified incorruptible and immortal into the glorified and transfigured image of The Creator, God, The Father.

The two be comings of "RI", the real information in the Holy Spirit will of God is what manifests the becoming to immortality and incorruptibility as becoming again glorified and transfigured.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

Peace to all,

True, and thanks for the great information for all to share as support.

To me the trinity is three persons in one, the Father and the Son and The Holy Spirit. The Arc of the New Covenant carried two to earth, through the Immaculate Conception and the Virgin Birth of of The Christ, conceived by The Person of the Holy Spirit, The Paraclete. The Son and the Holy Spirit together with the Power of The Holy Spirit person in the person of The Christ, Jesus fulfilled all faith and morality in the New Covenant and from the cross, what was left is the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit will of God. From the cross, Jesus gave up the "Ghost" for all mankind to share as one in being together with the Father and The Son for the Holy Spirit in the soul of the being to glorify and transfigure US, all mankind transformed, re-imaged, sanctified incorruptible and immortal into the glorified and transfigured image of The Creator, God, The Father.

The two be comings of "RI", the real information in the Holy Spirit will of God is what manifests the becoming to immortality and incorruptibility as becoming again glorified and transfigured.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

I can relate to much of that .. Amen Brother .... I just don't feel the need to describe my faith in terms and with concepts the Bible does not use itself; I desire to stick with just the Biblical terms - that way at least I protect myself against doctrines that may have evolved from too much human influence.

E.g. in this day and age the term 'person' means a human being; so in the 21st century CE one can't really use that term anymore to describe God the Father and the Holy Spirit. Doing so causes confusion to non-believers and is unnecessary; it's better to use a word that does NOT carry this association with a human being.

It may seem like small things sometimes but these are not without meaning. E.g. many statements of faith contain the phrase (about Yeshua): ' .. seated at the right hand of the Father'. Yet this phrase is not found in the Bible, therefore I prefer the more Biblical equivalent ' ... seated at the right hand of God'.

 

[Stephen Andrew]

Peace to all,

So true, and to me in the Logic is the true power of the information for mortal being to understand beyond the real world intelligence and into becoming the will, the conscience of the mind of The Creator. We are in union with the Power of the Holy Spirit, the Divine Being logic, but not the Divine Being Ourselves. In Logic, we know we become in the image of the Creator, transformed and transfigured, and we know we are to become His will through The Power. And we know we are not the Creator to Judge others, but we are united to the same power only to judge ourselves and not others through the Knowledge of the Tree of Good and Evil. This is to me the information logic of the "RI" real intelligenc of the Divine "Holy" Spirit will of the Creator, God, The Father, in fulfilled Faith and Morality. To me, this is the reimaged spirit will in the soul of the being to manifest as God in our being in The New Eve through and to The Body of The Christ in US as United in being.

Thanks and your meaning is what unites in your true spirit as What would Jesus do in all cases of fulfilled faith and morality.
To me, His logic is the Power and Strenght to Transform and transfigure in the information logic truth in the Word, presented today.

To me, this is the Logic of the Divine Being, some say God, and some the Trinity as God in the being, all before creation was ever created was even created.
From the beginning, and in The Gospel According to John was:
The Word, the Holy Spirit, Divine Spirit, the Person of the Holy Spirit as God united in the Divine being.
And the Word was with God, The Son,

Yeshua is the Hebrew name for Jesus, the Lord and Messiah. It is a common alternative to the name Yehoshua in the Hebrew Bible's later books and among Jews during the Second Temple period. The Greek spelling of Yeshua is Iesous, which becomes Jesus in English through the Latin IESVS/Iesus.

And The Word was God, The Father.

To me, the logic of what unites all is the Holy Spirit. We become in union through the Divine Spirit and in the fellowship together with The Father and The Son, Jesus, Yeshua, in faith and morality, fulfilled.

We know that What unites is the fulfillment of faith and morality in "What would the Divine Being information logic do in all cases of fulfilled faith and morality? We know the answer is everything that will never fail in eternity as the will of God's indwelling in all mankind.

The parable of dust to dust, in information today:
"AI" artificial intelligence can come from anywhere and lead to anyplace but the "RI" real intelligence of The Holy Spirit will of God comes from Heaven and returns from where it became, transformed abnd transfigured from Dust to "Dust" of Heaven. To me, this is more information logic, just off the cuff.

Peace always,
Stephen

 

[Josheb]

Mary was Jesus' biological mother.

Mary was a sinner, like everyone born of Adam and Eve..............

Exactly, @Ivan Hlavanda. For Mary to be Jesus' biological mother she would have had to contribute something of her sinful flesh to Jesus' constitution. Not only is there nothing in scripture indicating that is the case (it might be assumed, given the normal method of human procreation) but it poses some serious theological problems, and we shouldn't be basing our views on assumptions (or traditions).