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What Message Does The Proud Boys Heavy Sentencing Send?

USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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The fact that your defending a guy wearing a Trump hat (Ray Epps) proves he's a Fed.
Some of the posts I read on here make me wonder if they are performance art. :scratch:

I have been defending Epps because his life has been destroyed by the Conservisphere and it's relentless efforts to draw attention away from Donald, and his minions, who actually orchestrated the attack. I don't care for his politics or what he was advocating on J6, but the maniacal need to destroy him on the part of some conservatives prompts me to defend him anyway.
 
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Hans Blaster

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The Kangaroo court accused Tarrio and Biggs of telepathy. .... No evidence whatsoever of a PLAN to attack. Biggs got 17 years just for shaking a fence. Tarrio wasn't even there.
Not a "kangaroo court" the United States District Court for the District of Columbia overseen by a judge appointed by the President of the United States and confirmed by the United States Senate.

There was loads of evidence of the planning and command of their conspiracy. The Judge found the evidence relevant and did not dismiss the charges. The jury found them GUILTLY. Then the judge laid down the sentence.

I get the distinct feeling you didn't follow these trials while they were happening. I did.
Similar things happened to Jesus and his disciples...
That is not relevant.
 
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I think it sent the message that we have two judicial systems in America. One for the republicans and one for the democrats
No, that message was not sent. People who break the law are arrested and punished regardless of their political affiliation.
 
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No, that message was not sent. People who break the law are arrested and punished regardless of their political affiliation.
I would agree that it should be that way. Maybe i missed Antifa being held accountable for their actions
 
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stevil

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No, that message was not sent. People who break the law are arrested and punished regardless of their political affiliation.
And also it sends a loud message that violently trying to take over the country is frowned upon by the USA justice system.
Not frowned upon by the MAGA supporters though. It seems many of them are happy for a violent insurrection as long as it is an attempt to get Republican control of the country.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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I would agree that it should be that way. Maybe i missed Antifa being held accountable for their actions
It seems like conservatives have two plays in their book - persecution complex and whataboutism.

I guess I should add selective memory because there were thousands of arrests during the civil unrest of 2020.
 
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Diamond72

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The swarmed about a "stolen election", but even by the evidence clearly available on that date it wasn't stolen or rigged.
Every election is "stolen". I use to stay up late to find out who won the election. One year they called the election, the winner gave his speech. The loser gave his speech so I went to sleep for the night. The next morning when I woke up they did a flip and the other person had won the election.

People use to talk about the dead people voting. They would claim the election was somehow rigged. So there is nothing new about stolen election rhetoric. That has always been around. But they never attacked the capital like that. Although we are taught in school to do just that. The whole idea of a constitution and the right to bear arms is that if people are unhappy with the goverment then we have the right to take control by force. Because the founding fathers took control of this country by force when the English tried to collect taxes.

 
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essentialsaltes

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we have the right to take control by force.
One has the capability to attempt that. But it is Illegal and treasonous. Suggesting it is seditious.

We The People have the right to stop anyone foolish enough to attempt this.
 
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FireDragon76

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Every election is "stolen". I use to stay up late to find out who won the election. One year they called the election, the winner gave his speech. The loser gave his speech so I went to sleep for the night. The next morning when I woke up they did a flip and the other person had won the election.

People use to talk about the dead people voting. They would claim the election was somehow rigged. So there is nothing new about stolen election rhetoric. That has always been around. But they never attacked the capital like that. Although we are taught in school to do just that. The whole idea of a constitution and the right to bear arms is that if people are unhappy with the goverment then we have the right to take control by force.

The Constitution and Bill of Rights recognize no such right.
 
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Diamond72

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The Constitution and Bill of Rights recognize no such right.
"That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government"

This is something I have wondered about all my life. Esp back when no one ever thought something like this would happen.
 
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FireDragon76

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"That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government"

This is something I have wondered about all my life. Esp back when no one ever thought something like this would happen.

That's the Declaration of Independence, not Constitution. The Declaration of Independence is just that. It is not the Constitution and doesn't have force of law. It doesn't contain some kind of holy writ. It expresses theories and views of the time as justification for declaring independence, but it isn't the basis for American law.
 
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Arcangl86

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"That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government"

This is something I have wondered about all my life. Esp back when no one ever thought something like this would happen.
The declaration is a political treatise, not a legal document. It was an attempt to justify something that was against the established law.
 
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Diamond72

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It is not the Constitution and doesn't have force of law.
My point was that this is what they teach in the public school system. The Declaration of Independence, its enduring legacy lies in shaping ideals and challenging societies to live up to its principles. Equality began in the declaration and then it became a part of the constitution.

There was a lot of civil unrest under trump that we do not see with Biden.
The declaration is a political treatise, not a legal document. It was an attempt to justify something that was against the established law.
We are not talking about the court system, we are talking about what they teach us in public schools.
 
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FireDragon76

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My point was that this is what they teach in the public school system. The Declaration of Independence, its enduring legacy lies in shaping ideals and challenging societies to live up to its principles. Equality began in the declaration and then it became a part of the constitution.

There was a lot of civil unrest under trump that we do not see with Biden.

We are not talking about the court system, we are talking about what they teach us in public schools.

What they teach you in public schools is barely more than the equivalent of a Sunday School version of civics. It's not political science or law.

It certainly doesn't mean the government recognizes a right of citizens to overthrow the government.
 
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Diamond72

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What they teach you in public schools is barely more than the equivalent of a Sunday School version of civics. It's not political science or law.
All they teach is revisionism and propaganda. In this case I think their propaganda is back firing on them. I went to a school where the principal and the director were holocaust survivors. A very high percent like 80% were "Jewish". So I got a different perspective there than what I got in the public school system. We had a dorm father that was in a polish prisoner of war camp and lost an eye when a guard hit him with the butt of a rifle. He was a part of Hitler's youth and they got sent to the front line when they were 12 years of age.

I realize the current world has a ton of problems. I am just saying I got a little bit different of a perspective than what you get in public schools. Even to the point where I hated public school if for no other reason than it was very boring when there was so much we needed to learn in life. Other than things that were a total waste of time like capitals and the names of presidents. They are starting to resolve some of the issues because now they let students take college classes which tend to be better than the lower level classes designed for losers and dropouts. Today they can graduate from high school with a two year college degree all paid for by the government.
 
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A2SG

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"That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government"

This is something I have wondered about all my life. Esp back when no one ever thought something like this would happen.
Yep, the people do have the right to alter or even abolish the US Constitution. There are even provision set out in the Constitution to do that, mostly in Article V, through amendments and constitutional conventions.

But "the people" doesn't refer to a small group trying to impose their ideas through force or violence. It would require a large enough majority (two thirds of both houses of Congress, or two-thirds of the states can propose an amendment, three-fourths of states need to ratify, for example), to ensure that most Americans agree with the proposed changes, not just a few.

As to abolishing the Constitution...well, that would be trickier. It would probably require another full-on revolution...and a significant amount of people sufficient to overpower the entire US military.

-- A2SG, good luck with that....
 
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A2SG

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Usually they can not get even 50% of the votes. So often it all comes down to the vote of one person somewhere.
If that one person is sufficient to garner a two-thirds majority in each house, sure. But it still means two-thirds of each house agrees.

Meaning more than a small handful agree.

-- A2SG, which was kinda the point, I imagine....
 
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