Can Christians Still Support Trump after the Guilty Verdict?

[childeye 2]

And you aren’t God.

Yes, I'm a creature not The Creator.

So you don’t know if Trump is truly Christian or not.

I agree I don't know he is, and I don't know he isn't. But God knows.

Laws need to exist in a society for it to function properly. It’s silly to pretend otherwise.

That's a strawman argument. I said that righteousness doesn't come by the works of the law Galatians 2:21 . To elaborate, laws and policies cannot instill virtue, as in kindness, honesty. Nor can they instill compassion, nor faith, nor hope. Respectfully, I'm just saying that the fruits of the Spirit require the Spirit of God.

 

[Bradskii]

You can believe what you want but accusations require proof.

You want proof that Trump lies? Surely not...

 

[Paidiske]

Wow, an independent won (which is sadly a pipe dream in the US). Wish that happened in the US, but sadly, we are stuck with two parties in the states. Hmm, a parliamentary system could be a unique idea to try out in the USA, maybe this will give more fair voices to the independents.

It is getting late here, but this will be on my mind, and I'll try to study up on the basics of Australian politics.

You might find it interesting in particular to read up on the "teals."

Ooh, I wouldn't want to be forced to vote, if I have to pick between a list of candidates who are bad apples. But yes, there are pros and cons to both types of voting. Could one do a write-in for Australian voting, such as writing in the name of "Jesus" or "Bugs Bunny" instead of a politician?

I will get back to you tomorrow, as it is 23:30 here (assuming that Australians use 24 hour time instead of 11:30 PM).

Yes. When I say voting is compulsory, turning up to vote and getting your name crossed off is the compulsory part. What you write on the voting paper is up to you.

To clarify, yes, you can write whatever you want on the paper, but you can only validly vote for the names already registered and on the ballot. Writing another name won't be counted.

More on topic, that line about not following a man but shaping a movement is interesting. Okay, let's say we concede that it's not about the man, it's about the movement for which he is a figurehead. If we take a careful inventory of the impact of that movement so far, does it really seem to be positive, healthy, for the country? From the other side of the world, it doesn't look like it.

 

[rambot]

What he’s doing is not stuttering

That's why I included the strategies his specialist gave him.


Out of curiosity do you believe it is POSSIBLE to completely get rid of a stutter?

 

[AlexB23]

You might find it interesting in particular to read up on the "teals."



To clarify, yes, you can write whatever you want on the paper, but you can only validly vote for the names already registered and on the ballot. Writing another name won't be counted.

More on topic, that line about not following a man but shaping a movement is interesting. Okay, let's say we concede that it's not about the man, it's about the movement for which he is a figurehead. If we take a careful inventory of the impact of that movement so far, does it really seem to be positive, healthy, for the country? From the other side of the world, it doesn't look like it.

Guess I have some homework to do. I will check up on the teals party of AU.

 

[Postvieww]

The error in that article is the belief that a candidate whose sole focus in life is personal gain really believes in anything.

This is your opinion which is your right but it is not based on the facts.

Answer this one question, why would a billionaire who could live any life style he wishes in his senior years, choose a life in which he is ridiculed, hated, subjected to every conspiracy charge the left can dream up, the only former president subjected multiple made up charges some of which have never been used against any former President before, actually lose wealth, donate his Presidential salary and still be standing after all of this is unleashed on him? Why would anyone subject themselves to this????? Because he truly cares about this country and wants to do all within his ability to save it from destruction from within.

He has spent 77 years violating all the societal norms you want Americans to value.

Trump is not a saint and has done many things in his past not to be proud of just as have I and probably most of us who post here.

Jesus is not running for President so we should only expect flawed humans to be on the ballot.

What truly saddens me is the venom from Christians towards this man.

He'd drop you and your values in a snap if the other side gave him a better deal.

Another opinion you have the right to but has no basis in reality.

One thing that makes me believe he sincerely wants to help save this nation from the self destructive path it is on, is the crazed opposition from the established powers in Washington and those duped by the madness. In Washington the one goal is to get more power and keep it and Trump is a threat to that entrenched power base.

 

[Postvieww]

To get to a parliamentary system we”d have to open a Constitutional convention and fiddle with our Nation’s “innards”.
This is not likely to happen anytime soon.

Power hungry politicians are the same no matter what the system is!

A third party is not viable , we need to clean up the two parties we have at the ballot box.

 

[BPPLEE]

That's why I included the strategies his specialist gave him.


Out of curiosity do you believe it is POSSIBLE to completely get rid of a stutter?

I don’t know but I have rarely noticed Biden stuttering.

 

[Fantine]

This is your opinion which is your right but it is not based on the facts.

Answer this one question, why would a billionaire who could live any life style he wishes in his senior years, choose a life in which he is ridiculed, hated, subjected to every conspiracy charge the left can dream up, the only former president subjected multiple made up charges some of which have never been used against any former President before, actually lose wealth, donate his Presidential salary and still be standing after all of this is unleashed on him? Why would anyone subject themselves to this????? Because he truly cares about this country and wants to do all within his ability to save it from destruction from within.

Trump is not a saint and has done many things in his past not to be proud of just as have I and probably most of us who post here.

Jesus is not running for President so we should only expect flawed humans to be on the ballot.

What truly saddens me is the venom from Christians towards this man.

Another opinion you have the right to but has no basis in reality.

One thing that makes me believe he sincerely wants to help save this nation from the self destructive path it is on, is the crazed opposition from the established powers in Washington and those duped by the madness. In Washington the one goal is to get more power and keep it and Trump is a threat to that entrenched power base.

He does it for the power--and his children got a lot richer--especially Jared and Ivanka--from countries courting his favor.
The prize he is chasing now is lifetime immunity and power--and his vindictive desire to get back at the honest patriots holding him responsible.
And we are not talking about Trump out of hate. I think it can only be described as shouting at deaf people syndrome. We try to make ourselves heard by deaf people by talking louder. It doesn't work.
And yet we try.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Simple, we have an established government which has an established border and we have laws written down saying that in order to enter this country certain steps must be taken.

Native Americans had no such systems in place.

Got it. So I was childish for thinking that people stole land from the indigenous people. But in fact, the reason why what Europeans did was ok, but what people entering into the land today is bad, is because the Europeans called dibs. Which, of course, is definitely not a childish way of looking at this.

Or is it perhaps because the Europeans had Real Civilization™ but the indigenous people were just savages? Would that be a fair characterization of how you think?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Brihaha]

18 million people came because they were separated from 2,000 children?

5500 children were separated from parents, as Biden administration hunts for their families. 2000 of them are still separated. We need a functional congress to create some immigration reform legislation instead of performing bad theater for voters. Those people are whom we elected to find solutions to these issues. How can we accept their inaction while whinging about presidents? It is disingenuous and steeped in tribalism. We have three branches of government. All need to function properly for us to see real progress on solutions for our problems.

Americans are lost in a fantasy world provided by the internet and social media. We are forgetting how to act and think for ourselves. The repercussions will likely be devastating for future generations of Americans.

 

[rambot]

I don’t know but I have rarely noticed Biden stuttering.

I understand that. But that is because he had the BEST people teaching him strategies to DEAL with it. Unfortunately, those strategies are NOT perfect and it is IMPOSSIBLE to ever get rid of a stutter.

I am NOT using this as a blanket excuse for ALL of his missteps...not even CLOSE. But to think it doesn't still affect him and doesn't impact his speech is not fair. It just may be difficult to ascertain how much is stutter and how much is brain plaque.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

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How can you follow Jesus and Donald Trump?” Many are not following a man, they are shaping a movement. A better, biblical question to be asking is, What direction is the country heading?

The short answer to the question is absolutely, especially after a sham trial that resembles Venezuela more than America.

Confrontation Over Character
If a leader lacks Christian character but is pointing the nation back to God, is that a bad thing? If they are being a terror to terrorists and making America secure, is that a bad thing?

If they are honoring hard work and minimizing free handouts, is that a bad thing? If they are fighting the global agenda to enslave America, is that a bad thing?

God doesn’t judge a nation based on the character of one man; He judges it based on the spiritual health of her people—from corrupt Ballam to ungodly kings in the Old Testament—if they direct the people back to God it can be a good thing.

A Reality Check
Not voting for Trump is a vote against what needs to happen in this nation. We can’t allow “personal” pain or “flawed” character to have national consequences.

We’re not playing games anymore—serious things are on the line that have massive consequences. We need to wake up. There is no Plan B. I don’t believe that any other candidate could carry his momentum.

If you hope to be persuasive you need to offer more than your biased opinions.

" I’m more concerned with our nation’s national character than I am with the president's personal character."
You don't seem to appreciate that, as national leader, his character is the paradigm of the national character.

 

[Adam56]

You want proof that Trump lies? Surely not...

Proof that he’s lying about being a Christian is what I’m referring to.

Got it. So I was childish for thinking that people stole land from the indigenous people. But in fact, the reason why what Europeans did was ok, but what people entering into the land today is bad, is because the Europeans called dibs. Which, of course, is definitely not a childish way of looking at this.

Or is it perhaps because the Europeans had Real Civilization™ but the indigenous people were just savages? Would that be a fair characterization of how you think?

-CryptoLutheran

I never even said whether it was “ok”, or not. I just explained the difference.

For the sake of discussion though, even if it wasn’t, shouldn’t that just be a good reason to not let something like that happen again? We can’t change the past but we can shape the future.

Yes, I'm a creature not The Creator.

I agree I don't know he is, and I don't know he isn't. But God knows.

That's a strawman argument. I said that righteousness doesn't come by the works of the law Galatians 2:21 . To elaborate, laws and policies cannot instill virtue, as in kindness, honesty. Nor can they instill compassion, nor faith, nor hope. Respectfully, I'm just saying that the fruits of the Spirit require the Spirit of God.

laws affect culture, and culture can play part in shaping people. A culture which treats babies in the womb as disposable is one that is open to dehumanization.

 

[BCP1928]

Proof that he’s lying about being a Christian is what I’m referring to.

I never even said whether it was “ok”, or not. I just explained the difference.

For the sake of discussion though, even if it wasn’t, shouldn’t that just be a good reason to not let something like that happen again? We can’t change the past but we can shape the future.

laws affect culture, and culture can play part in shaping people. A culture which treats babies in the womb as disposable is one that is open to dehumanization.

Only if you think they're babies.

 

[Adam56]

Only if you think they're babies.

Even if you call them “fetuses” the fact you treat them as disposable means you think human life is disposable, which is dehumanizing.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I mean in theory yes. But the reality is that Congress is very rarely going to go against a President of their own party, and the same applies to a lesser extent to the courts.

Sure. But it's not as if a congruence of parties always exists between the Presidential office and Congress and the Senate. Many times, it's split or dominated by the opposite party. We tend to forget this while focusing too heavily on the President. He doesn't work alone, especially not with a wave of a magisterial wand.

 

[Diamond72]

How can you follow Jesus and Donald Trump?”

Jesus will rule and reign for 1,000 years. Joe and Don are just here to show us how incompetent man is. They are both real good at showing us how we make a mess out of things. God's plan is not kings and presidents. It is priests and judges. It was actually Moses father in law that showed him how to set up a government.

• Following Jethro’s advice, Moses appointed judges and leaders over thousands, hundreds, fifties, and tens.
• These leaders helped administer justice and resolve disputes among the people.
• This decentralized system allowed Moses to focus on critical matters and ensured efficient governance.

 

[BPPLEE]

I understand that. But that is because he had the BEST people teaching him strategies to DEAL with it. Unfortunately, those strategies are NOT perfect and it is IMPOSSIBLE to ever get rid of a stutter.

I am NOT using this as a blanket excuse for ALL of his missteps...not even CLOSE. But to think it doesn't still affect him and doesn't impact his speech is not fair. It just may be difficult to ascertain how much is stutter and how much is brain plaque.

The other day when he gave his remarks about Gaza he was flawless. No awkward pauses or gaffes. Whatever he did that day worked.

 

[rambot]

The other day when he gave his remarks about Gaza he was flawless. No awkward pauses or gaffes. Whatever he did that day worked.

But that's the thing, there are a lot of different things that affect the frequency of stuttering. How rested, the amount of stress physiological factors.

Again, compared to many Biden has done VERY well in dealing with his stutter.

Again PLEASE understand that I am NOT excusing every time Biden misspeaks. It's just something I'd hope people remember about him.

When I was working construction, I was working with a really REALLY bad stutterer. I felt SO bad for him. It kept him from being a foreman. And then the company sent him to a speech specialist. It was INCREDIBLE the difference. Dude became foreman within a year; company loved him (and he them) and he was one of the top foremen there.

What was interesting was that he had a physical behaviour that went along when he stuttered (lifting/adjusting his hard hat) and THAT behaviour never really went away.