Systemic racism in the USA: Are whites "guiltier" if they had slavery in their past?

[timothyu]

Blacks would need to gain at least 40-50% in population before they come close to making whites a minority.

But we would still have a civilization built by whites, you know, the one everyone is drawn to.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Black male offenders continued to receive longer sentences than similarly situated White male offenders. Black male offenders received sentences on average 19.1 percent longer than similarly situated White male offenders during the Post-Report period (fiscal years 2012-2016), as they had for the prior four periods studied. The differences in sentence length remained relatively unchanged compared to the Post-Gall period.

I’ve already explained this. If blacks are committing more crimes than other races then more blacks will have a criminal record than other races which will result in longer sentences than other races. Your article is ignoring this fact because it’s obviously trying to create a false narrative which is precisely why it doesn’t provide information about specific cases.

 

[BCP1928]

I’ve already explained this. If blacks are committing more crimes than other races then more blacks will have a criminal record than other races which will result in longer sentences than other races. Your article is ignoring this fact because it’s obviously trying to create a false narrative which is precisely why it doesn’t provide information about specific cases.

Why is it so important to you that there must not be any lingering effects of racism in this country? Why do think that assertions that there might be are an attack?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Why is it so important to you that there must not be any lingering effects of racism in this country? Why do think that assertions that there might be are an attack?

I don’t think it’s an attack, I think it’s a false narrative. Another reason I believe that the cause isn’t racism is because I lived in 5th ward in Houston Tx for a year and attended Fransisco Scott Key middle school and it was the most dangerous school I’ve ever attended in my life. My second day of school there was a fight. These kids were in the 6th or 7th grade. One of them pulled out a box cutter and tried to cut the other kid with it. Luckily security showed up and stopped it before anyone was seriously hurt. A girl stabbed another girl in the heart with a pair of scissors while I was there. She didn’t die. The last day I attended the school a kid pulled a knife on me in the restroom. He didn’t try to cut me, just threatened me. I didn’t go back to class, I went home and never went back. There was only like 2 weeks of school left so the principal didn’t make a big deal out of my refusal to return. There were a lot more incidents I could name but I don’t have time right now.

 

[rjs330]

Why is it so important to you that there must not be any lingering effects of racism in this country? Why do think that assertions that there might be are an attack?

I don't think anyone is claiming any such thing. Are there lingering effects? I'm sure there are. Are they to blame for everything? Absolutely not. Are there still racists in the country? Yes. Are they responsible for all the issues. Of course not. Are there actual racist systems in the US? No there are not.

To blame all the issues on past laws and slavery which no longer exist is myopic to say the least.

 

[rjs330]

It's a government report and not left-wing ranting.

Who do you think writes these reports? Just because it's a government agency doesn't make it unbiased. The government has a stake in this game. As long as it can say blacks are being discriminated against it gives them the ability to use this information for various political measures and maneuvering. The authors and editors all can have assignments and agendas. They may be completely biased on their own or doing what their bosses want them to do. There absolutely can be an agenda.
Is there one in this case? Maybe, maybe not. But we don't have all the information as has been pointed out. Government and bureaucracies all have agendas. To say it's only to tell the truth and be completely upfront and honest is kind of naive.

 

[Bradskii]

I’ve already explained this. If blacks are committing more crimes than other races then more blacks will have a criminal record than other races which will result in longer sentences than other races.

You've already been given evidence, and links to it, that shows that when taking that into consideration there is still a disparity in sentencing. You asked for evidence. When it is given it is somewhat churlish to then ignore it.

 

[Bradskii]

I don’t think it’s an attack, I think it’s a false narrative. Another reason I believe that the cause isn’t racism is because...

You went to a rough school, so therefore there is no racism. Is that the argument you just made? It sounds a lot like the argument you just made.

 

[BCP1928]

I don't think anyone is claiming any such thing. Are there lingering effects? I'm sure there are. Are they to blame for everything? Absolutely not. Are there still racists in the country? Yes. Are they responsible for all the issues. Of course not. Are there actual racist systems in the US? No there are not.

To blame all the issues on past laws and slavery which no longer exist is myopic to say the least.

Responsible for all the issues? Who says that?

 

[rturner76]

I’ve already explained this. If blacks are committing more crimes than other races then more blacks will have a criminal record than other races which will result in longer sentences than other races. Your article is ignoring this fact because it’s obviously trying to create a false narrative which is precisely why it doesn’t provide information about specific cases.

Are you saying that if black people as a race commit more crimes, the black race as a whole should get longer sentences and less chance of probation? It must be because as I already said, the study compared people who went to court under similar circumstances. So what is it? The black race as a whole deserves to be punished more harshly because they are caught committing crimes more often? Which has actually not been proven,. It's just been proven they are more likely to be arrested. Blacks might get caught for crimes more often but I doubt that the entire black population commits more crime than the entirety of white America.

 

[rturner76]

Who do you think writes these reports? Just because it's a government agency doesn't make it unbiased. The government has a stake in this game. As long as it can say blacks are being discriminated against it gives them the ability to use this information for various political measures and maneuvering. The authors and editors all can have assignments and agendas. They may be completely biased on their own or doing what their bosses want them to do. There absolutely can be an agenda.
Is there one in this case? Maybe, maybe not. But we don't have all the information as has been pointed out. Government and bureaucracies all have agendas. To say it's only to tell the truth and be completely upfront and honest is kind of naive.

I'm pretty sure that if the report said what you wanted it to say you would be just fine with it. In fact I see a pattern here. When some people are proven wrong they demand a source, why you provide a legitimate source, they say it's a corrupt report. These are the same people who seem to believe that any report or analysis that doesn't agree with their personal opinion or worldview, it is corrupt. I get it. So really there is no way to prove anything because you won't believe the documented proof. But personal opinions based on our own best logic.....Now that is bonafide fact

 

[rturner76]

 

[BNR32FAN]

Are you saying that if black people as a race commit more crimes, the black race as a whole should get longer sentences and less chance of probation?

The article already explained that the reason for them not getting probation is because they often can’t make bail which results in them getting time served before they actually go to court. And I’m saying any race that has more convictions is going to get higher sentences because they have a longer criminal record. If blacks make up 12% of the population but account for more crimes than any other race then mathematically they HAVE TO have more repeat offenders than other races. They can’t have a higher number of convictions based on their population number because they have less people in their demographic.

 

[rjs330]

I'm pretty sure that if the report said what you wanted it to say you would be just fine with it. In fact I see a pattern here. When some people are proven wrong they demand a source, why you provide a legitimate source, they say it's a corrupt report. These are the same people who seem to believe that any report or analysis that doesn't agree with their personal opinion or worldview, it is corrupt. I get it. So really there is no way to prove anything because you won't believe the documented proof. But personal opinions based on our own best logic.....Now that is bonafide fact

My post proved you completely in error here. Here's what I concluded with.

Is there one in this case? Maybe, maybe not. But we don't have all the information as has been pointed out. Government and bureaucracies all have agendas. To say it's only to tell the truth and be completely upfront and honest is kind of naive.

Said the information provided by the government may or may not be biased. To flat out say it isn't simply because it's the government us naive. Maybe it's not biased at all.

But what it's not is complete. There is a lot of information that's been left out. Many details.

I didn't claim the source was corrupt. I actually think much of the information is accurate. The numbers are most likely accurate. But I still question the conclusions as to why the numbers are that way. Because there is a lot of information that is left out.

The report doesn't prove systemic racism.

 

[Bradskii]

The article already explained that the reason for them not getting probation is because they often can’t make bail which results in them getting time served before they actually go to court. And I’m saying any race that has more convictions is going to get higher sentences because they have a longer criminal record. If blacks make up 12% of the population but account for more crimes than any other race then mathematically they HAVE TO have more repeat offenders than other races. They can’t have a higher number of convictions based on their population number because they have less people in their demographic.

Why are you completely ignoring what has been shown to you? Even when correcting for prior convictions, black people get longer sentences.

Which part of that sentence do you not understand?

 

[Ana the Ist]

No, frankly, white people can be rightly accused of causing our problem, but white people cannot do anything to solve our problem.

What is the problem you speak of....exactly?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Just to clarify I wasn't try to rate biases. I was just asking a broader question. People keep bringing up that society needs to fix theses issues. I was asking how exactly. Lots of complaining going on and I want to know who's responsibility it is and how exactly we are supposed to fix these biases. I used fat people as an example.

1. There's few inherent biases that people have been genuinely able to prove the existence of. Biases towards beautiful people fall under what is known as the "halo" effect and are arguably the strongest bias we can measure. When we see someone as beautiful....we also tend to treat them as if they are smarter, harder working, more trustworthy, etc. The second strongest bias is one of the most controversial....the "women are wonderful effect" shows that women are given all sorts of beneficial assumptions that we wouldn't give to a similarly attractive man. They're considered more trustworthy, harder working, smarter, etc. It runs counter to the narrative that women have a bias against them....they don't. It's been studied over and over and attempts to disprove it haven't just failed, they've continued to reinforce the existence of the bias. The racial preference bias does in fact exist....which is to say black people are biased toward black people, asians towards asians, latinos towards latinos...but recent data has shown the in-group preference doesn't exist for whites. There used to be a strong in-group preference for white people amongst white people....but in recent years, because politically left leaning whites tend to dislike white people, white people are the only group with a slight out-group preference.

In short, whatever may have been true about white privilege in the past isn't true anymore. There's never been any real evidence of "white privilege" and although a lot of stink has been made of the implicit association test...it's been debunked as a psychological tool for measuring implicit bias. Hundreds of tests have attempted to verify its ability to measure implicit biases....all have failed.

2. There's no way to "fix" real biases. We can make someone aware of the "halo effect" for example....and test them two weeks later to see if they are still biased towards the beautiful, and they will be. These biases are the result of hundreds of thousands of years of evolution and operate on the unconscious level....there's no magic wand to undo them.

3. DEI trainers have been in the news lately for 3 reasons. The main one is the mass layoffs and firings of DEI trainers....who were easy to remove from the payrolls of big companies as they contributed nothing to the bottom line. The second reason is the revelation that not only do they contribute nothing.....the problems they're supposed address like racial tension and racial disparities are actually made worse by DEI trainers. Surveys have shown the outcomes of these issues was made worse....not better....by hiring DEI trainers. The third reason, of course, is the scams they've illegally pulled and been convicted of. This is probably the biggest example, but certainly not the only one....

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

We live in a multicultural, multi racial society. I believe that if we are ever going to address these issues....we should....

1. Teach children that these are superficial characteristics that people are born with...and judging people according to these characteristics isn't just wrong, it's the very essence of bigotry.

2. De-emphasize the cultural differences between groups. While many people are proud of the cultures their families came from prior to living in the US, they left those nations for a reason. The flaws of those places were bad enough that everyone's ancestors decided to leave. While black people and those who came here as indentured servants may be the exception...we all have the ability to return to those places should we wish to do so...and we don't. Like it or not, we're all in this together, and we should act accordingly.

 

[RDKirk]

What is the problem you speak of....exactly?

Slavery and Jim Crow didn't do us any favors. We wound up with a slave culture that is a broken form of Anglo culture, with both high-Anglo and low-Anglo components (most low-Anglo from the deep South).

But ultimately, culture is a choice people make for themselves, so it's not something white people can fix for us.

 

[timothyu]

So being Americans now for so long, I assume there is no sense in associated with the culture of another continent (unlike the immigrants of today try to do with their homelands in making America over in their own image)?

 

[RDKirk]

So being Americans now for so long, I assume there is no sense in associated with the culture of another continent (unlike the immigrants of today try to do with their homelands in making America over in their own image)?

I'm not exactly certain what you mean.

Have you seen the movie Hidden Figures? That's one of the very few movies that has presented what had been what I'd call the "culture of aspiration" that propelled the Civil Rights Era, but which seems to have withered since then as the dominant black culture.