Systemic racism in the USA: Are whites "guiltier" if they had slavery in their past?

[IceJad]

You have to show:

• your driver's licence, or
• Australian passport number, or
• Medicare card number, or
• Australian citizenship number, or
• have someone who is enrolled confirm your identity.

Any why not use these cards as identification during voting? Is it that hard to bring out your driver's license or passport? For us we just show our ID card problem solved. It has a picture of us, current address, ID number and digital finger print in the chip. Don't pass identification don't get to vote. Simple. No need for 24 hours later when we know up front. Prevention rather than cure I believe the saying goes.

 

[Bradskii]

Any why not use these cards as identification during voting? Is it that hard to bring out your driver's license or passport? For us we just show our ID card problem solved. It has a picture of us, current address, ID number and digital finger print in the chip. Don't pass identification don't get to vote. Simple. No need for 24 hours later when we know up front. Prevention rather than cure I believe the saying goes.

You do it once. You're registered for every vote from then on. And you don't need ID as per the list of requirements above.

 

[rjs330]

You have to show:

• your driver's licence, or
• Australian passport number, or
• Medicare card number, or
• Australian citizenship number, or
• have someone who is enrolled confirm your identity.

Are non-citizens allowed yo have a drivers license or Medicare card?
I see a lot of potential fraud issues with someone confirming your identity. "Yup that's Bob all right. I promise he's a citizen".

 

[rjs330]

No, it's not. Conservatives like to claim that is what Liberals think, but it is nothing but propaganda.

No it's not. That is what liberals think. They think that blacks gave a harder time getting documents than whites. Why is that? Give us a straight up answer with evidence not just opinion.

 

[Ted-01]

With a few exceptions like a physical handicap or language issues, I can't think of any reason why anyone, any minority of any ethnic, social, sex, gender, or religious group would have a greater or lesser capability to acquire proper ID for the purposes of voting.
It's nonsense to me...

 

[BCP1928]

No it's not. That is what liberals think. They think that blacks gave a harder time getting documents than whites. Why is that? Give us a straight up answer with evidence not just opinion.

Because they are less likely to have driver's licenses or DMV IDs to begin with. Less likely to have accessible birth certificates. For some groups, more likely to have been born at home and thus have no birth certificate, Less likely to have supporting documents for name changes due to marriage, etc. Less likely to have a job which will allow time off to travel to ID office, less likely to have a car to drive there with public transport difficult or non existent. None of this is insurmountable, it's just a little more difficult for some groups than others. Even so, there are organizations which will help with paperwork and transportation. Just a nuisance, that's all, and annoying because it is intentional; Republicans hoped that it would be enough to shave the vote a little in their favor, but it hasn't worked out all that well for them and it has made them look bad.

 

[rturner76]

You would have to prove that. What laws or societal norms or institution process grant the whitest Protestant skin any benefits? I always see people write this and there are no proof of it. In fact I only see detriment as MSM keep blasting white people for their "racism" and "privilege". Employers with preference for non-binary and poc. Is there something I'm missing in the year 2024?

A recent study or statistics or anything please I have been asking for this in the thread for a while now. Opinions are fine but it gets tiring after hearing people keep saying the same old thing. Can I have a good research to read please?

The disparity in the justice system is very well documented.

Racial and Ethnic Disparities in the Criminal Justice System

Examine the data, innovative justice responses and state policies addressing racial and ethnic disparities in the criminal justice system.

www.ncsl.org

Healthcare:

Discrimination and racial disparities in health: evidence and needed research - PMC

This paper provides a review and critique of empirical research on perceived discrimination and health. The patterns of racial disparities in health suggest that there are multiple ways by which racism can affect health. Perceived discrimination is ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

More detail about the disparity in the sentencing phase of the justice system.

Most people on the forum that read this information simply disregard the proof, then say there is no proof. I hope you don't do the same as most.

 

[rjs330]

Because they are less likely to have driver's licenses or DMV IDs to begin with. Less likely to have accessible birth certificates. For some groups, more likely to have been born at home and thus have no birth certificate, Less likely to have supporting documents for name changes due to marriage, etc. Less likely to have a job which will allow time off to travel to ID office, less likely to have a car to drive there with public transport difficult or non existent. None of this is insurmountable, it's just a little more difficult for some groups than others. Even so, there are organizations which will help with paperwork and transportation. Just a nuisance, that's all, and annoying because it is intentional; Republicans hoped that it would be enough to shave the vote a little in their favor, but it hasn't worked out all that well for them and it has made them look bad.

You didn't answer the question. Why don't they have those things? What's your evidence that all those things are accurate and apply only to black people?

 

[BCP1928]

Any why not use these cards as identification during voting? Is it that hard to bring out your driver's license or passport?

It is if you don't have one--because you haven't needed one in your daily life up until now.

For us we just show our ID card problem solved. It has a picture of us, current address, ID number and digital finger print in the chip. Don't pass identification don't get to vote. Simple. No need for 24 hours later when we know up front. Prevention rather than cure I believe the saying goes.

Sounds good, but the Right are opposed to a national identity card. We were all supposed to have "Real ID" by now, an identity verification on a state-issued driver's license or state issued ID card that meets Federal standards But you have to go through state driver's licence offices to get it, and the conservative states are stalling.

 

[BCP1928]

You didn't answer the question. Why don't they have those things? What's your evidence that all those things are accurate and apply only to black people?

They don't have them because they haven't needed them in their daily lives up until now. It's only a small percentage, but Republicans hoped it would be enough to shave the vote. As for the accuracy and the actual percentages you can look that up for yourself, the figures are readily available and have been much talked about. The thing is, the problem is not one of being black, it's one of being poor and those same statistics apply to poor white people as well. In fact, the whole scheme is not directed against black people per se, but against anybody the Republicans think might vote "left" the poor of any color and the young, particularly college students. But you would have to look at the statistics to see if black people were disproportionately affected.

 

[BNR32FAN]

My husband and I are both white. He and his family are currently, and generally, less religious and more progressive than mine, but his (historically) is MUCH more Southern and slave-owning than mine. In fact, all his family has Southern and slave-owning past, whereas mine doesn't on either paternal or maternal side.

My dad's family are all WASPs and Irish/Scottish from the upper northeast (Massachusetts, Vermont, etc.) who never held or owned slaves. My mom's are all Germans/Norwegians/Hutterites from the upper midwest (Minnesota, South Dakota, etc.) who came to the US in the 1800s and also never had slaves.

In recent years, I've noticed a change from individualistic and historical focus of racism, toward more 'systemic' focus. The idea is, it doesn't really matter that my husband's family was historically slave-owning, whereas mine were in regions where slavery never occurred. The focus now is, both nonetheless benefited from 'white privilege,' so it doesn't matter if one's white families had slaves or not. What matters now is, if they are allies, or at least voting Democrat in greater numbers. In that case, my husband's family is generally more progressive now, even if they have purely Southern and slave-owning roots.

Do you agree with that perspective: is it better to have a family that "currently" is overall more progressive and voting Democrat, even if that family is purely slave-owning and Southern in its past, than it is to come from a family with no slavery, even if that family is currently slightly more third-party or Republican in its voting?

I don’t really understand the question here. You aren’t guilty of something that your grandparents or great grandparents or great great grandparents did and you’re not guilty simply because of the color of your skin.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The disparity in the justice system is very well documented.

Racial and Ethnic Disparities in the Criminal Justice System

Examine the data, innovative justice responses and state policies addressing racial and ethnic disparities in the criminal justice system.

www.ncsl.org

Healthcare:

Discrimination and racial disparities in health: evidence and needed research - PMC

This paper provides a review and critique of empirical research on perceived discrimination and health. The patterns of racial disparities in health suggest that there are multiple ways by which racism can affect health. Perceived discrimination is ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

More detail about the disparity in the sentencing phase of the justice system.

Most people on the forum that read this information simply disregard the proof, then say there is no proof. I hope you don't do the same as most

Where is the proof in these articles? All I see is the fact that blacks account for half of the people in prison but it doesn’t give any evidence of racism being the cause. I see claims that blacks get paid less than other races on entry level positions and I don’t see how that’s possible when most people know what the position pays before they even apply for it. Nowadays for any job you have to apply online and they always tell you how much the job pays on the website where you apply for the job. So what, do they have a different website for blacks to apply? A company can’t advertise a job for a specific wage then change the wage when the person is hired that’s illegal. Your articles aren’t making any sense and they aren’t providing any actual evidence. Making an empty claim isn’t proof of anything. In order to present proof you have to provide specific examples with specific details not a broad overgeneralization of the facts then apply whatever reasons for them that you assume are the actual cause.

 

[rturner76]

Where is the proof in these articles? All I see is the fact that blacks account for half of the people in prison but it doesn’t give any evidence of racism being the cause. I see claims that blacks get paid less than other races on entry level positions and I don’t see how that’s possible when most people know what the position pays before they even apply for it. Nowadays for any job you have to apply online and they always tell you how much the job pays on the website where you apply for the job. So what, do they have a different website for blacks to apply? A company can’t advertise a job for a specific wage then change the wage when the person is hired that’s illegal. Your articles aren’t making any sense and they aren’t providing any actual evidence. Making an empty claim isn’t proof of anything. In order to present proof you have to provide specific examples with specific details not a broad overgeneralization of the facts then apply whatever reasons for them that you assume are the actual cause.

They wouldn't make sense to you because they contradict your worldview.

Do blacks get treated worse than whites in the courts? Yes
Do blacks get treated worse as it relates to employment? Yes
Do blacks get unequal treatment in the healthcare system yes.

Easier to accept the statistical facts you have been given or ignore them to support your worldview. You choose to ignore factual statistics in order to support your worldview which is typical of the conservative poster who asks for evidence of disparity and when shown these statistics, simply ignore them to maintain their personal worldview.

Why ask to be shown proof and then just disregard the proof? I run into this all the time on this forum. People ask where is the proof that a racial disparity exists. Then you cite universities, charitable organizations, and government statistics illustrating the differences and the one who asks for proof simply disregards the verifiable proof they are given.

"I see claims of blacks getting paid less for entry-level positions." Then you see proof posted and you literally ignore it and come back to claim there is no proof when you were just given proof. Over and over I post proof and over and over it is disregarded whether the statistics are kept by a university, a charitable or activist organization, and even the government statistics are disregarded. I know I am repeating myself here but what is the disconnect? Ask for proof, receive the proof, say there is no proof.

It really doesn't allow for any credibility to your argument. Could it be as simple as "white is right," and you can't believe anything but your own thoughts because you have a level of understanding above and beyond every other mind or static that exists?

Help me understand this phenomenon where proof is not actually proof. I would seriously like to know how that process works. Thank you for taking the time to respond though you didn't really respond much more than "n"ah 'ah" is a response to proven facts.

 

[BNR32FAN]

They wouldn't make sense to you because they contradict your worldview.

Do blacks get treated worse than whites in the courts? Yes
Do blacks get treated worse as it relates to employment? Yes
Do blacks get unequal treatment in the healthcare system yes.

Easier to accept the statistical facts you have been given or ignore them to support your worldview. You choose to ignore factual statistics in order to support your worldview which is typical of the conservative poster who asks for evidence of disparity and when shown these statistics, simply ignore them to maintain their personal worldview.

Why ask to be shown proof and then just disregard the proof? I run into this all the time on this forum. People ask where is the proof that a racial disparity exists. Then you cite universities, charitable organizations, and government statistics illustrating the differences and the one who asks for proof simply disregards the verifiable proof they are given.

"I see claims of blacks getting paid less for entry-level positions." Then you see proof posted and you literally ignore it and come back to claim there is no proof when you were just given proof. Over and over I post proof and over and over it is disregarded whether the statistics are kept by a university, a charitable or activist organization, and even the government statistics are disregarded. I know I am repeating myself here but what is the disconnect? Ask for proof, receive the proof, say there is no proof.

It really doesn't allow for any credibility to your argument. Could it be as simple as "white is right," and you can't believe anything but your own thoughts because you have a level of understanding above and beyond every other mind or static that exists?

Help me understand this phenomenon where proof is not actually proof. I would seriously like to know how that process works. Thank you for taking the time to respond though you didn't really respond much more than "n"ah 'ah" is a response to proven facts.

Please quote the actual proof from either one of those two articles. That’s all I’m asking for. I can say people drive more Ford pickups than Chevy because Ford has been around longer than Chevy, does that mean I’ve proved it?

 

[o_mlly]

In recent years, I've noticed a change from individualistic and historical focus of racism, toward more 'systemic' focus.

If systemic racism exists today in the US then what evidence does the claim have in support? We'd be looking for laws or policies that are racially biased. I think today just the opposite is in evidence.

Do you agree with that perspective: is it better to have a family that "currently" is overall more progressive and voting Democrat, even if that family is purely slave-owning and Southern in its past ...

I don't see the rationale for the linkage. Historically in the US, the Democrats were the slavers.

 

[rjs330]

They don't have them because they haven't needed them in their daily lives up until now. It's only a small percentage, but Republicans hoped it would be enough to shave the vote. As for the accuracy and the actual percentages you can look that up for yourself, the figures are readily available and have been much talked about. The thing is, the problem is not one of being black, it's one of being poor and those same statistics apply to poor white people as well. In fact, the whole scheme is not directed against black people per se, but against anybody the Republicans think might vote "left" the poor of any color and the young, particularly college students. But you would have to look at the statistics to see if black people were disproportionately affected.

Sounds like a bunch of progressive rhetoric to me. At least you admitted it's geared to poor people and not blacks. If that is the case it's not systemic racism. But you still didn't provide any evidence. Just rhetoric.

 

[BCP1928]

Sounds like a bunch of progressive rhetoric to me. At least you admitted it's geared to poor people and not blacks. If that is the case it's not systemic racism. But you still didn't provide any evidence. Just rhetoric.

It would be systemic racism if you could show that blacks were disproportionately affected by the requirement. That was my point: It's possible to have a law with racially discriminatory effect without racially discriminatory intent.

 

[rturner76]

Please quote the actual proof from either one of those two articles. That’s all I’m asking for. I can say people drive more Ford pickups than Chevy because Ford has been around longer than Chevy, does that mean I’ve proved it?

Did you even try to read the information in the links I posted? I wonder.

Here are specific numbers since it seems you had not the time to open one of the links I provided. You should be able to understand these. They use pictures. If you still can't understand there is a disparity you are either incapable of learning new information or you are just being wilfully ignorant. This is just one source and there are dozens more with even more detail even on government websites.

Black people were overrepresented in most jails with relevant data​

More detail about these specific charts here:

Systemic racism in the USA: Are whites "guiltier" if they had slavery in their past?

You have to show: your driver's licence, or Australian passport number, or Medicare card number, or Australian citizenship number, or have someone who is enrolled confirm your identity. Any why not use these cards as identification during voting? Is it that hard to bring out your driver's...

www.christianforums.com

Other resources:

Racial and Ethnic Disparities in the Criminal Justice System

Examine the data, innovative justice responses and state policies addressing racial and ethnic disparities in the criminal justice system.

www.ncsl.org

One in Five: Racial Disparity in Imprisonment — Causes and Remedies – The Sentencing Project

Learn three main causes of racial disparity in imprisonment and promising reforms from across the country that can mitigate their impact.

www.sentencingproject.org

Report to the United Nations on Racial Disparities in the U.S. Criminal Justice System – The Sentencing Project

Report to the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Contemporary Forms of Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia, and Related Intolerance

www.sentencingproject.org

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/104687/racial-and-ethnic-disparities-throughout-the-criminal-legal-system.pdf

Race & Justice

naacp.org

You can no ;longer hids behind "no proof."

 

[rjs330]

Please quote the actual proof from either one of those two articles. That’s all I’m asking for. I can say people drive more Ford pickups than Chevy because Ford has been around longer than Chevy, does that mean I’ve proved it?

Those on the systemic side use a lot of correlations as if there was causation. As if a disparity is caused by systemic racism. The disparity itself is enough. But they have no evidence that the disparity is caused by systemic racism. That's the problem.

 

[rjs330]

Did you even try to read the information in the links I posted? I wonder.

Here are specific numbers since it seems you had not the time to open one of the links I provided. You should be able to understand these. They use pictures. If you still can't understand there is a disparity you are either incapable of learning new information or you are just being wilfully ignorant. This is just one source and there are dozens more with even more detail even on government websites.

Black people were overrepresented in most jails with relevant data​

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View attachment 348862
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View attachment 348867
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More detail about these specific charts here:

Systemic racism in the USA: Are whites "guiltier" if they had slavery in their past?

You have to show: your driver's licence, or Australian passport number, or Medicare card number, or Australian citizenship number, or have someone who is enrolled confirm your identity. Any why not use these cards as identification during voting? Is it that hard to bring out your driver's...

www.christianforums.com

Other resources:

Racial and Ethnic Disparities in the Criminal Justice System

Examine the data, innovative justice responses and state policies addressing racial and ethnic disparities in the criminal justice system.

www.ncsl.org

One in Five: Racial Disparity in Imprisonment — Causes and Remedies – The Sentencing Project

Learn three main causes of racial disparity in imprisonment and promising reforms from across the country that can mitigate their impact.

www.sentencingproject.org

Report to the United Nations on Racial Disparities in the U.S. Criminal Justice System – The Sentencing Project

Report to the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Contemporary Forms of Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia, and Related Intolerance

www.sentencingproject.org

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/104687/racial-and-ethnic-disparities-throughout-the-criminal-legal-system.pdf

Race & Justice

naacp.org

You can no ;longer hids behind "no proof."

That's not proof of systemic racism. Where is the evidence that all of what you posted is strictly due to systemic racism? Thats what is always missing from any of these arguments.

You sincerely believe that the justice system is so filled with racist people and attitudes. But you haven't proven it. All the sentences given for everyone are based solely at the judges discretion. Very few are strict sentences that apply to everyone no matter what. So you have to show that rhe system is rigged against blacks. To cause them to have higher sentences strictly due to their skin color. Or else you are accusing judges of being individually racist.