Systemic racism in the USA: Are whites "guiltier" if they had slavery in their past?

[rjs330]

Shhh.. that's not exactly the correct kind of systemic racism they are looking for. We have to pretend it is otherwise because this kind of racism is the positive kind of racism I have heard as argument.

Oh okay I'll try and be I bit more discreet.

 

[rjs330]

So you really want me to provide evidence of systemic racism which hasn't been discovered yet. How do you know there isn't any, if it hasn't been discovered yet?

If you are claiming there is systemic racism then you need to back up the claim. If you can't then we can ignore the claim.

 

[rjs330]

Except that is not an example of systemic racism. It is an example of overt racism, a sort of counter-racism if you like, but they are doing it consciously. Systemic racism is a law or institution which was established for some ostensibly non-racist purpose which has disproportionate effect on a particular race even though people may not realize it until it is called to their attention.

Who on earth says systemic racism can't be overt? I believe the schools systemic racism wasn't much different than redlining, which was pretty overt and it's still used as an example of systemic racism. I think even you called it that.

 

[BCP1928]

Oh okay I'll try and be I bit more discreet.

You needn't be discreet. If a person is being racist, call him on it. He may actually be a racist, Or, he may not be a racist, but acting on some tradition, law or institution that results in his actions disproportionately affecting another race even though he was unaware of it.

 

[BCP1928]

Who on earth says systemic racism can't be overt? I believe the schools systemic racism wasn't much different than redlining, which was pretty overt and it's still used as an example of systemic racism. I think even you called it that.

It certainly can be employed as a tool for overt racism. For example, most people think that voter ID is an OK idea. However, it may turn out that the kind of ID specified will in practice be one that a minority group does not normally have or which will be somewhat more difficult for them to get. Oops.

On the other hand, there have been documented examples of public officials pouring over demographics to find out which ID would be the most likely that blacks might not have or which might be more difficult for them to get--and specifying that one.

 

[IceJad]

Except that is not an example of systemic racism. It is an example of overt racism, a sort of counter-racism if you like, but they are doing it consciously. Systemic racism is a law or institution which was established for some ostensibly non-racist purpose which has disproportionate effect on a particular race even though people may not realize it until it is called to their attention.

Institutional racism, also known as systemic racism, is defined as policies and practices that exist throughout a whole society or organization that result in and support a continued unfair advantage to some people and unfair or harmful treatment of others based on race or ethnic group. It manifests as discrimination in areas such as criminal justice, employment, housing, healthcare, education and political representation.

I'm not sure if you understand what the word systemic means.

 

[IceJad]

It certainly can be employed as a tool for overt racism. For example, most people think that voter ID is an OK idea. However, it may turn out that the kind of ID specified will in practice be one that a minority group does not normally have or which will be somewhat more difficult for them to get. Oops.

On the other hand, there have been documented examples of public officials pouring over demographics to find out which ID would be the most likely that blacks might not have or which might be more difficult for them to get--and specifying that one.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=voter+id

This is called the soft bigotry of low expectations. The believe certain people can't understand basic requirements and everything have to be dumbed down.

I have voter ID. In my country every voter has a voter ID and it's called the national identity card. Every adult has to carry it in public places.

I have no idea what kind of voting system would work without proper identification. Good faith people won't lie?

 

[BCP1928]

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=voter+id

This is called the soft bigotry of low expectations. The believe certain people can't understand basic requirements and everything have to be dumbed down.

No, it's not. Conservatives like to claim that is what Liberals think, but it is nothing but propaganda. "Certain people" understand full well what the requirements are. They understand that conservatives study their demographic to find out what kind of identity card they are less likely to already have or what supporting documents they might have more trouble to acquire. They understand why offices in their area that issue the required ID are shut down or their open hours shortened. They understand why conservative legislators wait as close to the election as possible before imposing new ID requirements. They understand that, in the end, they will probably get the required ID but it will require more effort and expense than for "certain other people." They also understand that all that is not just a conspiracy theory, because too many conservative legislators have bragged about it.

I have voter ID. In my country every voter has a voter ID and it's called the national identity card. Every adult has to carry it in public places.

The US has no national identity card system. IDs are handled at the state level, and the states have different, and changeable,, requirements depending on the kind of ID sought. Even at the state level there is no universal ID card.

I have no idea what kind of voting system would work without proper identification. Good faith people won't lie?

Generally it works by signature comparison. The voter signs in and the poll worker compares that signature to the one on the voter registration document. It's interesting to notice in this regard that conservatives who clamor for ID at the polling place aren't interested in requiring one when the voter registers. You'd think they would be if they were really interested in a secure vote rather than just obstructionism.

 

[Bradskii]

I have no idea what kind of voting system would work without proper identification. Good faith people won't lie?

In Australia we just turn up and have our name crossed off from a list of eligible voters.

 

[IceJad]

In Australia we just turn up and have our name crossed off from a list of eligible voters.

I wonder where they got the initial list from? As though the administration had some kind of system to track citizenship and that tracking further made perfect without any form of national identification. And there is no problem with the election vetting whatsoever.

https://www.voteaustralia.org.au/identifying_voters

 

[IceJad]

No, it's not. Conservatives like to claim that is what Liberals think, but it is nothing but propaganda. "Certain people" understand full well what the requirements are. They understand that conservatives study their demographic to find out what kind of identity card they are less likely to already have or what supporting documents they might have more trouble to acquire. They understand why offices in their area that issue the required ID are shut down or their open hours shortened. They understand why conservative legislators wait as close to the election as possible before imposing new ID requirements. They understand that, in the end, they will probably get the required ID but it will require more effort and expense than for "certain other people." They also understand that all that is not just a conspiracy theory, because too many conservative legislators have bragged about it.

At this point you're just opining, all you're talking about is personal perceptions. Give proof in the form a research paper or study or anything.

The US has no national identity card system. IDs are handled at the state level, and the states have different, and changeable,, requirements depending on the kind of ID sought. Even at the state level there is no universal ID card.

Generally it works by signature comparison. The voter signs in and the poll worker compares that signature to the one on the voter registration document. It's interesting to notice in this regard that conservatives who clamor for ID at the polling place aren't interested in requiring one when the voter registers. You'd think they would be if they were really interested in a secure vote rather than just obstructionism.

https://www.ohiosos.gov/media-center/press-releases/2024/2024-05-14a/

Then you have non-citizens being registered to vote. A lax system invites abuse. Those are the one you caught. I have a suspicion there are many who go unnoticed but that would be my personal opinion.

 

[Bradskii]

I wonder where they got the initial list from? As though the administration had some kind of system to track citizenship and that tracking further made perfect without any form of national identification.

You register to vote. Voter fraud, despite what the group might say to which you linked, is not really a problem. See here:

Electoral Backgrounder: Enrolment fraud and multiple voting

www.aec.gov.au

 

[IceJad]

You register to vote. Voter fraud, despite what the group might say to which you linked, is not really a problem. See here:

Electoral Backgrounder: Enrolment fraud and multiple voting

www.aec.gov.au

Former Labor councillor ‘unduly elected’ through voter fraud: VEC

The Victorian Electoral Commission said residents in Melbourne’s northern suburbs should not be forced back to the polls, despite arguing Milad El-Halabi was elected through voter fraud in 2020.

www.theage.com.au

Yes fraud is not really a problem.

In final submissions on Wednesday, the VEC said the tribunal should find that El-Halabi was “unduly elected” through fraudulent votes. This did not mean El-Halabi was responsible or involved in fraud, the VEC said, but that on the balance of probabilities, he was the beneficiary.

 

[rturner76]

Whites aren't guiltier for having slave ownership somewhere in their family tree. They are just fortunate to live in a colony whose laws were set up to benefit whites the most, namely rich whites because many poor whites got stepped on as well. We do live in a class system that benefits those with the most money and the whitest Protestant skin. That is what is systemic rather than who specifically owned who.

 

[IceJad]

We do live in a class system that benefits those with the most money and the whitest Protestant skin.

You would have to prove that. What laws or societal norms or institution process grant the whitest Protestant skin any benefits? I always see people write this and there are no proof of it. In fact I only see detriment as MSM keep blasting white people for their "racism" and "privilege". Employers with preference for non-binary and poc. Is there something I'm missing in the year 2024?

A recent study or statistics or anything please I have been asking for this in the thread for a while now. Opinions are fine but it gets tiring after hearing people keep saying the same old thing. Can I have a good research to read please?

 

[Bradskii]

Former Labor councillor ‘unduly elected’ through voter fraud: VEC

The Victorian Electoral Commission said residents in Melbourne’s northern suburbs should not be forced back to the polls, despite arguing Milad El-Halabi was elected through voter fraud in 2020.

www.theage.com.au

Yes fraud is not really a problem.

It isn't when it's clear that the system can determine if fraud has been committed. It's not a problem when it's obvious that someone has tried to cheat the system.

The delay in determining the problem in this case was that postal votes were the means used because of covid. With the normal system we use, any discrepancies are discovered within 24 hours or so.

 

[IceJad]

It isn't when it's clear that the system can determine if fraud has been committed. It's not a problem when it's obvious that someone has tried to cheat the system.

The delay in determining the problem in this case was that postal votes were the means used because of covid. With the normal system we use, any discrepancies are discovered within 24 hours or so.

When it is caught it is the system working. When it is not caught nobody will know the system is not working.

Voter ID is just another layer of protection. I have zero idea why anyone would object unless they have other intentions.

In my country when they introduced indelible ink in the voting process we didn't make a big noise about it. It is a physical identification that a vote has been cast and the person can't walk into another polling station to vote again. It wasn't necessary as each polling station will have a list of eligible voters. We can only go to our respective centers. As there were some fishy actors during the past voting, reports of extra voters being allowed in and voters who can't speak the national language and all sorts of funny happenings. The Election Committee decided an additional layer of security is required.

Voter ID is not a bad idea. People opposing it are just uptight about closing loopholes and potential loopholes.

 

[Bradskii]

When it is caught it is the system working. When it is not caught nobody will know the system is not working.

With the current system you can't not be caught. Vote more than once and it's detected within 24 hours or so. Having said that, if you really want to set up a dozen different identities and all the hassle that entails and then register to vote as those different identities, then you could try.

 

[IceJad]

With the current system you can't not be caught. Vote more than once and it's detected within 24 hours or so. Having said that, if you really want to set up a dozen different identities and all the hassle that entails and then register to vote as those different identities, then you could try.

You're assuming an eligible voter voting twice. How are you to control non-citizen enrolling to vote? Do you present a birth cert or any proof of citizenship during enrollment? If that is the case then what the issue on showing that proof again during actual voting?

 

[Bradskii]

You're assuming an eligible voter voting twice. How are you to control non-citizen enrolling to vote?

You have to show:

• your driver's licence, or
• Australian passport number, or
• Medicare card number, or
• Australian citizenship number, or
• have someone who is enrolled confirm your identity.