Offending Others

[CoreyD]

The analogy
A blind man has lost his way.
You tried to steer him on the right path, but he stubbornly refused to hear you. He became deaf to your words.
Now, the man is in a desert, headed for what seems to be certain death.
Should you tell him what's ahead of him and try to point it out as clearly and directly as possible, or should you just let him be, because you do not want to "offend" him?

The actual situation
You realize that someone is misunderstanding and misapplying the scriptures.
You try to in the most loving way, share scriptures and reason on them, with the hope that they will consider these scriptures in light of what they believe, and adjust to what is scripturally clear.
They however, stubbornly stick to what they believe.
Should you show them scriptures that directly and clearly reveal the folly of their belief, or let them be?

I try to be balanced in how I apply Jesus' example, as well as his followers, when talking to religious people.
Is Jesus response at Matthew 15:3-20 to this situation a good one to follow, or should we never do similar, lest we offend persons?
The disciples perhaps thought that Jesus should have taken a different approach.
Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you realize you offended the Pharisees by what you just said?” Matthew 15:12
See Jesus response at Matthew 15:13, 14

What do you think, and what would you do in the situation?

 

[jacks]

These can be difficult situations. I think it is best to tell them your thoughts, but not brow beat them with them. Sometimes the best way to get people to examine their beliefs is not to tell them what is correct, rather to ask them questions about their beliefs/thoughts. This may get them thinking about them in a more open and in depth way.

 

[CoreyD]

These can be difficult situations. I think it is best to tell them your thoughts, but not brow beat them with them. Sometimes the best way to get people to examine their beliefs is not to tell them what is correct, rather to ask them questions about their beliefs/thoughts. This may get them thinking about them in a more open and in depth way.

Thanks. Those are all good suggestions, which I agree with.
Considering though, the analogy, and you did all of that, but the person does not answer questions, but instead, just keeps stating their beliefs, and misapplying the scriptures, what would you do?
Is Jesus' approach a good way to get their attention, and whether or not they are offended, then let them be?

 

[jacks]

Is Jesus' approach a good way to get their attention, and whether or not they are offended, then let them be?

Personally I would let them be and pray for them. We can only do so much in convincing others. I would be afraid that using a stronger approach would make them dig in more. Not that I would be concerned so much about offending them, rather I just don't think it would help change their minds. Concerning the analogy you made, even if we physically restrained the blind man, unless we really changed his perspective, he would just continue his ways once we let him go. Unfortunately you can't make someone see the truth, it must come from within them.

 

[AlexB23]

View attachment 348669

The analogy
A blind man has lost his way.
You tried to steer him on the right path, but he stubbornly refused to hear you. He became deaf to your words.
Now, the man is in a desert, headed for what seems to be certain death.
Should you tell him what's ahead of him and try to point it out as clearly and directly as possible, or should you just let him be, because you do not want to "offend" him?

The actual situation
You realize that someone is misunderstanding and misapplying the scriptures.
You try to in the most loving way, share scriptures and reason on them, with the hope that they will consider these scriptures in light of what they believe, and adjust to what is scripturally clear.
They however, stubbornly stick to what they believe.
Should you show them scriptures that directly and clearly reveal the folly of their belief, or let them be?

I try to be balanced in how I apply Jesus' example, as well as his followers, when talking to religious people.
Is Jesus response at Matthew 15:3-20 to this situation a good one to follow, or should we never do similar, lest we offend persons?
The disciples perhaps thought that Jesus should have taken a different approach.
Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you realize you offended the Pharisees by what you just said?” Matthew 15:12
See Jesus response at Matthew 15:13, 14

What do you think, and what would you do in the situation?

Well, it is a fine line we must walk.

For one thing, the Bible talks about calling out people:

1 Timothy 5:20 (ESV): "As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear."

Hebrews 4:12 (ESV): "For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. "

Proverbs 20:30 (ESV): "Blows that wound cleanse away evil; strokes make clean the innermost parts."

Proverbs 27:5-6 (ESV): "Better is open rebuke than hidden love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; profuse are the kisses of an enemy."

Proverbs 28:23 (ESV): "Whoever rebukes a man will afterward find more favor than he who flatters with his tongue."


But, on the other side, the Bible talks about showing love:

Ephesians 4:29 (ESV): "Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear."

Matthew 6:14-15: "For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

Ephesians 4:31-32: "Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you."

Colossians 3:12-13: "Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity."

Luke 17:3-4: "So watch yourselves.“If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”"

All in NIV

 

[CoreyD]

Personally I would let them be and pray for them. We can only do so much in convincing others. I would be afraid that using a stronger approach would make them dig in more. Not that I would be concerned so much about offending them, rather I just don't think it would help change their minds. Concerning the analogy you made, even if we physically restrained the blind man, unless we really changed his perspective, he would just continue his ways once we let him go. Unfortunately you can't make someone see the truth, it must come from within them.

Thank you very much for sharing you perspective.

I'm thinking that the effort to get people to examine their beliefs by asking them questions about their beliefs/thoughts, while good, is not showing them, or pointing them in the right direction.

So, I would feel that I have not really helped the blind man.
To me, it's like letting the person go where they want to and not telling them what is the correct way.

Applying that to the actual situation, I would feel that I have not carried out my ministry, as I am obligated to, and I do feel that most people choose not to teach the truth, not so much because of being concerned about offending, as you said, but because most think it's not that important, since they don't feel it's their obligation to help someone see the truth. They leave that to Jesus.
Not saying that's how you see it, but I think that's the view most have.

Two scriptures that come to mind which I consider in following the example of first century followers, are 2 Corinthians 10:3-6, and 2 Timothy 4:1-5

2 Timothy 4:1-5
1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

This shows why it's important to correct persons especially when they do not answer questions, but instead, just keeps stating their beliefs, and misapplying the scriptures.
It says, they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
The work of an evangelizer, involves, according to Paul, correcting what is false, and highlighting what is true, as the other scripture bears out.

2 Corinthians 10:3-6
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.

What I am seeing then, from the example of both Jesus, and the early followers, is that there is a need to present the truth clearly, especially to those who are misapplying, twisting, or avoiding scripture.
I try to strike the balance.
I think discernment is needed for when and how, but not to neglect the obligation to preach the word of truth, even to those professing to believe, but who don't really want to hear it. Like the Pharisees.

 

[CoreyD]

Well, it is a fine line we must walk.

For one thing, the Bible talks about calling out people:

1 Timothy 5:20 (ESV): "As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear."

Hebrews 4:12 (ESV): "For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. "

Proverbs 20:30 (ESV): "Blows that wound cleanse away evil; strokes make clean the innermost parts."

Proverbs 27:5-6 (ESV): "Better is open rebuke than hidden love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; profuse are the kisses of an enemy."

Proverbs 28:23 (ESV): "Whoever rebukes a man will afterward find more favor than he who flatters with his tongue."


But, on the other side, the Bible talks about showing love:

Ephesians 4:29 (ESV): "Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear."

Matthew 6:14-15: "For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

Ephesians 4:31-32: "Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you."

Colossians 3:12-13: "Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity."

Luke 17:3-4: "So watch yourselves.“If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”"

All in NIV

Thanks for these scriptures.

I noticed that three scriptures in Proverbs show that love does not hold back reproof.
Proverbs 20:30 (ESV): "Blows that wound cleanse away evil; strokes make clean the innermost parts."
Proverbs 27:5-6 (ESV): "Better is open rebuke than hidden love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; profuse are the kisses of an enemy."
Proverbs 28:23 (ESV): "Whoever rebukes a man will afterward find more favor than he who flatters with his tongue."

So, while one can reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching 2 Timothy 4:2, that is not the same thing as having "bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice" Ephesians 4:31-32, or "corrupting talk" Ephesians 4:29, or not being forgiving Matthew 6:14-15; Luke 17:3-4; Colossians 3:12-13.
So, being balance would call for making appropriate application of the scriptures.

The scriptures thus show that holding back from correcting someone when it is important, or we are obligated to, is unloving.
We actually could be found blood guilty, if we fail to carry out our ministry as instructed. Ezekiel 33:8
Acts 20:26, 27
26 Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. 27 For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God

 

[Ted-01]

View attachment 348669

The analogy
A blind man has lost his way.
You tried to steer him on the right path, but he stubbornly refused to hear you. He became deaf to your words.
Now, the man is in a desert, headed for what seems to be certain death.
Should you tell him what's ahead of him and try to point it out as clearly and directly as possible, or should you just let him be, because you do not want to "offend" him?

The actual situation
You realize that someone is misunderstanding and misapplying the scriptures.
You try to in the most loving way, share scriptures and reason on them, with the hope that they will consider these scriptures in light of what they believe, and adjust to what is scripturally clear.
They however, stubbornly stick to what they believe.
Should you show them scriptures that directly and clearly reveal the folly of their belief, or let them be?

I try to be balanced in how I apply Jesus' example, as well as his followers, when talking to religious people.
Is Jesus response at Matthew 15:3-20 to this situation a good one to follow, or should we never do similar, lest we offend persons?
The disciples perhaps thought that Jesus should have taken a different approach.
Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you realize you offended the Pharisees by what you just said?” Matthew 15:12
See Jesus response at Matthew 15:13, 14

What do you think, and what would you do in the situation?

What about talking to the blind man, getting to know a little bit about him... asking where he's headed, what's his destination.
If his answer then seems self-destructive, tell him where you are headed, see if he has any interest in that.

Jesus saves people, we don't.

 

[St_Worm2]

I'm thinking that the effort to get people to examine their beliefs by asking them questions about their beliefs/thoughts, while good, is not showing them, or pointing them in the right direction.

Hi Corey, I think the point of asking leading questions is to help someone think through what you are saying to them (about God, His word, the Gospel) so that they can reach the conclusion(s) that you know that they need to reach, but do so on their own (which is typically a better and less offensive method than feeding them all of the answers is)!

In reality, then, you will be doing exactly what you feel obligated to do (point the person you are talking with in the right direction, that is). Then, if they choose not to listen, what they are actually doing is choosing not to listen to themselves

If you'd like to hear more about this, you may want to pick up a copy of this book: Amazon.com I have never read a bad review or heard a negative comment about this book, just FYI.

​

​

God bless you!!

--David

 

[BNR32FAN]

View attachment 348669

The analogy
A blind man has lost his way.
You tried to steer him on the right path, but he stubbornly refused to hear you. He became deaf to your words.
Now, the man is in a desert, headed for what seems to be certain death.
Should you tell him what's ahead of him and try to point it out as clearly and directly as possible, or should you just let him be, because you do not want to "offend" him?

The actual situation
You realize that someone is misunderstanding and misapplying the scriptures.
You try to in the most loving way, share scriptures and reason on them, with the hope that they will consider these scriptures in light of what they believe, and adjust to what is scripturally clear.
They however, stubbornly stick to what they believe.
Should you show them scriptures that directly and clearly reveal the folly of their belief, or let them be?

I try to be balanced in how I apply Jesus' example, as well as his followers, when talking to religious people.
Is Jesus response at Matthew 15:3-20 to this situation a good one to follow, or should we never do similar, lest we offend persons?
The disciples perhaps thought that Jesus should have taken a different approach.
Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you realize you offended the Pharisees by what you just said?” Matthew 15:12
See Jesus response at Matthew 15:13, 14

What do you think, and what would you do in the situation?

I’m sure Jesus and the apostles would be getting a lot of warnings and account suspensions by the moderators here on CF. Especially Jesus and Paul because they both had a tendency to be “sugar free” in their response to heretical doctrines.

 

[AlexB23]

Thanks for these scriptures.

I noticed that three scriptures in Proverbs show that love does not hold back reproof.
Proverbs 20:30 (ESV): "Blows that wound cleanse away evil; strokes make clean the innermost parts."
Proverbs 27:5-6 (ESV): "Better is open rebuke than hidden love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; profuse are the kisses of an enemy."
Proverbs 28:23 (ESV): "Whoever rebukes a man will afterward find more favor than he who flatters with his tongue."

So, while one can reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching 2 Timothy 4:2, that is not the same thing as having "bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice" Ephesians 4:31-32, or "corrupting talk" Ephesians 4:29, or not being forgiving Matthew 6:14-15; Luke 17:3-4; Colossians 3:12-13.
So, being balance would call for making appropriate application of the scriptures.

The scriptures thus show that holding back from correcting someone when it is important, or we are obligated to, is unloving.
We actually could be found blood guilty, if we fail to carry out our ministry as instructed. Ezekiel 33:8
Acts 20:26, 27
26 Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. 27 For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God

You are welcome.

 

[CoreyD]

What about talking to the blind man, getting to know a little bit about him... asking where he's headed, what's his destination.
If his answer then seems self-destructive, tell him where you are headed, see if he has any interest in that.

Jesus saves people, we don't.

That's great. Thanks.

The only thing is, we passed that stage.
However, so that we all have the full picture, and we can all be on the same page, I'll insert that in the analogy.
That way we don't misunderstand.

The analogy
You met a blind man. Probably you helped him cross the road to his favorite coffee shop.
He invites you to have a cup with him, and you sit and chat.

He tells you, or perhaps you ask, and he tells you he's going So So So.
You tell him, you are going there too.
Perhaps you offer to travel with him.
He asks you if you are taking the road he's taking, and you ask him which road is that.
He describes it to you. "It's really a direct path of virtually flat terrain through spacious desert land".

He give a more precise and detailed description.
Wait. You are familiar with that path!

Will you tell him about it?
A Yes.
B No.
C Not now. Perhaps later.

You tell him which path you are taking, and invite him along.

He insists the path he is taking is more direct, and certain.
Are you going to tell him the truth?
A Yes.
B No.
C Not now. Perhaps later.

You part ways, and the man sets off.
Now we're here.

The blind man has lost his way.
You tried to steer him on the right path, but he stubbornly refused to hear you. He became deaf to your words.
Now, the man is in a desert, headed for what seems to be certain death.
Should you tell him what's ahead of him and try to point it out as clearly and directly as possible, or should you just let him be, because you do not want to "offend" him?

As I said in this post, I do feel that most people choose not to teach the truth, not so much because of being concerned about offending, but because most think it's not that important, since they don't feel it's their obligation to help someone see the truth. They leave that to Jesus.

Is that how you feel about it?

 

[CoreyD]

Hi Corey, I think the point of asking leading questions is to help someone think through what you are saying to them (about God, His word, the Gospel) so that they can reach the conclusion(s) that you know that they need to reach, but do so on their own (which is typically a better and less offensive method than feeding them all of the answers is)!

I agree.

In reality, then, you will be doing exactly what you feel obligated to do (point the person you are talking with in the right direction, that is). Then, if they chose not to listen, what they are actually doing is choosing not to listen to themselves

Please see this post.

If you'd like to hear more about this, you may want to pick up a copy of this book: Amazon.com I have never read a bad review or heard a negative comment about this book, just FYI.

View attachment 348704​

​

God bless you!!

--David

What you said is actually available for free. There is no need to pay for it.
Jesus is the greatest instructor. He leads and teaches his Church. Would you not agree?

Thank you.

 

[CoreyD]

I’m sure Jesus and the apostles would be getting a lot of warnings and account suspensions by the moderators here on CF. Especially Jesus and Paul because they both had a tendency to be “sugar free” in their response to heretical doctrines.

You may be right, but did you ask the moderators? Are you sure?
I can agree though that most persons here would want to correct Jesus and Paul.
It seems you are speaking for yourself in this regard.
Why do you feel you can correct Jesus? Is that not the same as believing you can correct God?

 

[BNR32FAN]

You may be right, but did you ask the moderators? Are you sure?
I can agree though that most persons here would want to correct Jesus and Paul.
It seems you are speaking for yourself in this regard.
Why do you feel you can correct Jesus? Is that not the same as believing you can correct God?

I don’t know where you got the idea that I can correct Jesus. I don’t see anything in my post that would support such an idea.

 

[CoreyD]

I don’t know where you got the idea that I can correct Jesus. I don’t see anything in my post that would support such an idea.

I'm sorry. I thought you said, "I’m sure Jesus and the apostles would be getting a lot of warnings and account suspensions by the moderators here on CF. Especially Jesus and Paul ..."

I was asking if you were sure, or if you are speaking for yourself.
If you are speaking for the moderators, and not yourself, then my last questions do not apply to you. Just ignore them and forget I asked. They won' apply to you, in this case.

Actually forget what I said in that post.
I don't think anyone here knowingly wants to correct Jesus. Maybe a few might want to correct Paul, because they think he contradicted Jesus, but I don't think that's many.

 

[St_Worm2]

What you said is actually available for free. There is no need to pay for it.

Hello again Corey, before I reply to your post, please elaborate a bit about the statement of yours that I just quoted (do you say this in regard to what the Apostle teaches us in 1 John 2:27)?

Thanks

--David

 

[concretecamper]

You realize that someone is misunderstanding and misapplying the scriptures.
You try to in the most loving way, share scriptures and reason on them, with the hope that they will consider these scriptures in light of what they believe, and adjust to what is scripturally clear.
They however, stubbornly stick to what they believe.
Should you show them scriptures that directly and clearly reveal the folly of their belief, or let them be?

Have you ever considered that you may be the one misunderstanding and misapplying the scriptures? I'm not saying you are, but you could be.

 

[CoreyD]

Have you ever considered that you may be the one misunderstanding and misapplying the scriptures? I'm not saying you are, but you could be.

Hi there.
I'm trying to understand your point.
Is that to say no one should try to teach anyone the truth, or use God's word to try to help anyone, because no one knows that they know the truth? Or is there another point you are making?
Can you clarify please. Thanks.

 

[CoreyD]

Hello again Corey, before I reply to your post, please elaborate a bit about the statement of yours that I just quoted (do you say this in regard to what the Apostle teaches us in 1 John 2:27)?

Thanks

--David

Hi David. Thanks for asking. I like that you try to understand what is being communicated to you.
If you are worried that I meant one can get a hold of the book for free, that's not what I meant.

You said

I think the point of asking leading questions is to help someone think through what you are saying to them (about God, His word, the Gospel) so that they can reach the conclusion(s) that you know that they need to reach, but do so on their own (which is typically a better and less offensive method than feeding them all of the answers is)!​

​

In reality, then, you will be doing exactly what you feel obligated to do (point the person you are talking with in the right direction, that is). Then, if they chose not to listen, what they are actually doing is choosing not to listen to themselves​

I'm saying that what you said there is actually available for free, because the greatest instructor Jesus Christ left those examples for us to learn from, and follow, and we can read them in the Bible.

Added to that, Jesus has not left his followers on their own, but is still guiding his Church from heaven, so if we are in association with his Church, we will be reminded of his methods, and instructed on how to effectively use them in our ministry.
This is free, and we do not have pay money to actually buy a book in order to learn how to use the best methods of communicating the truth to others.


I didn't have 1 John 2:27 in mind. However that's a good scripture, and I'm glad you mentioned it, since I can use it as an example in my scenario, to demonstrate why more than asking questions is needed, and sometimes asking question may not be appropriate.
It looks like your question is the one we were all waiting for.

Explanation (1 John 2:27)

The common view is to apply that scripture to all of us, thinking that each person has this anointing, and each person can sit and read the Bible, and ask for holy spirit, and God will pour out holy spirit on each one, giving them understanding.​

Everyone seems to have the special gift of understanding the Bible, and yet everyone's understanding of the Bible conflicts.​

​

That's not how the holy spirit works, and it's not what Jesus had in mind, when he said the words at John 14:26 and John 16:13.​

​

1 John 2:20 - But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth - applies only to those whom God made steadfast through union with [Christ] the Anointed One, and has anointed with holy spirit. 2 Corinthians 1:21​

​

These anointed ones are described at Luke 12:32, as the little flock, who are given the kingdom.​

Those who are given the kingdom are described at Daniel 7:27 as the Saints of the Most High whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey.​

They are the heirs of the kingdom, that will rule with Christ as kings and priests, refered to in such scriptures as Luke 22:28-30; Galatians 3:29; Revelation 1:6; Revelation 5:10​

You'll notice I did not ask any leading question, but I'll ask one now. Do you know why I did not ask questions?