Where is the center of the universe?

[Akita Suggagaki]

As counterintuitive as it may seem, the universe has no center, and it has no boundary.

Where is the center of the universe? | Astronomy.com

Although it's hard to imagine, there is no center — or edge — to our cosmos. There is no center of the universe.

www.astronomy.com

Where is the center of the universe?

According to all current observations, there is no center to the universe. For a center point to exist, that point would have to somehow be special...

www.wtamu.edu

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[Qubit]

"You might be tempted to say that the location of the Big Bang is the center of the universe. But because space itself was created by the Big Bang, the location of the Big Bang was everywhere in the universe and not at a single point."

 

[awstar]

at the referenced site West Texas A&M University it says:

According to all current observations, there is no center to the universe. For a center point to exist, that point would have to somehow be special with respect to the universe as a whole. Let us think about all the different types of effects that could create a center.

according to Steven Hawkings — The Grand Design, Stephen Hawking and Leonard Mlodinow, 2010, pp. 41-42

So which is real, the Ptolemaic or the Copernican system? Although it is not uncommon for people to say that Copernicus proved Ptolemy wrong, that is not true. As in the case of our normal view versus that of the goldfish, one can use either picture as a model of the universe, for our observations of the heavens can be explained by assuming either the earth or the sun to be at rest.

so the correct answer to the question "where is the center of the universe?" seems to be "where do you want it to be?"

as to the point "For a center point to exist, that point would have to somehow be special with respect to the universe as a whole." -- The earth fits the description of being special. So I'm choosing to believe the earth is the center of the universe.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Reminds me of

Hermes Trismegistus, “God is an infinite sphere, the center of which is everywhere, the circumference nowhere.” Book of the 24 Philosophers.

Pascal: “The whole visible world is only an imperceptible atom in the ample bosom of nature. No idea approaches it. We may enlarge our conceptions beyond all imaginable space; we only produce atoms in comparison with the reality of things. It is an infinite sphere, the center of which is everywhere, the circumference nowhere. In short, it is the greatest sensible mark of the almighty power of God that imagination loses itself in that thought.”

 

[Tuur]

"You might be tempted to say that the location of the Big Bang is the center of the universe. But because space itself was created by the Big Bang, the location of the Big Bang was everywhere in the universe and not at a single point."

Eh...

Assume two dimensional creatures living on the surface of a three dimensional sphere. If the sphere is mostly uniform, the creatures might not discern a center. But to a three dimensional creature, the center is obvious, even if it's not seen: the center of the sphere.

If the universe is a hypersphere, then we are three dimensional creatures living on the surface of a four dimension or more sphere. We can't discern a center, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

[Qubit]

Eh...

Assume two dimensional creatures living on the surface of a three dimensional sphere. If the sphere is mostly uniform, the creatures might not discern a center. But to a three dimensional creature, the center is obvious, even if it's not seen: the center of the sphere.

If the universe is a hypersphere, then we are three dimensional creatures living on the surface of a four dimension or more sphere. We can't discern a center, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Thanks @Tuur . I understand what you are saying.

The issue I have is how contradictory the statement I quoted was when compared to ubiquitous comments like this...

The Big Bang Theory is the leading explanation for how the universe began. Simply put, it says the universe as we know it started with an infinitely hot and dense single point that inflated and stretched — first at unimaginable speeds, and then at a more measurable rate — over the next 13.7 billion years to the still-expanding cosmos that we know today.

What Is the Big Bang Theory?

In other words, according to the Big Bang Theory, the Universe started as a single point... that is... until someone asks where the center is. Then all of a sudden, the goal post moves and next thing you know, there was no single point.

 

[Qubit]

Just an FYI...

I believe what Science calls the 'Big Bang' is what happened when Adam and the Woman partook of the Forbidden Fruit.

The Universe 'fell' into a state of Particles from a Wave state. In other words, when their 'eyes were opened', they observed the Wave Function and it collapsed.

The Big Bang was the transition from Wave to Particle via a conscious observer. Wheeler theorized about it...

Participatory Anthropic Principle

Many don't agree with John Wheeler, but if he's right then we and presumably other conscious observers throughout the universe, are the creators—or at least the minds that make the universe manifest.

John Archibald Wheeler - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Although God created the Universe, it was the minds of Adam and the Woman that caused it to manifest in the fallen state that it is now.

I believe the 'ground' that was 'cursed' refers to all Particles of Matter in this verse...

Genesis 3:17
"And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life"

In other cultures, the Forbidden Fruit is the Cosmic Egg...

Typically, there is an egg which, upon "hatching", either gives rise to the universe itself or gives rise to a primordial being who, in turn, creates the universe.

Cosmic egg - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Long story short, Earth is the center of the Universe because that is where Adam and the Woman first observed the Wave. The further we look, the more it collapses.

 

[Diamond72]

As counterintuitive as it may seem, the universe has no center, and it has no boundary.

There is a center and I have been there (in a dream). Nothing marks the center only space.
The center is not the same place as the beginning and I do not know why that is.

 

[Diamond72]

I believe what Science calls the 'Big Bang' is what happened when Adam and the Woman partook of the Forbidden Fruit.

So how do you explain things like Isaiah 34:4 ? Although the reference is to the sky and not the universe itself.

…3Their slain will be left unburied, and the stench of their corpses will rise; the mountains will flow with their blood. 4All the stars of heaven will be dissolved. The skies will be rolled up like a scroll, and all their stars will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like foliage from the fig tree. 5When My sword has drunk its fill in the heavens, then it will come down upon Edom, upon the people I have devoted to destruction.

We know that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. With the theory of entanglement this is not only distance but all past present and future. When we pray for healing, God does not heal memories. He goes back to the event to bring about restoration and healing. To bring things back to the way He proclaimed them to be.

 

[Qubit]

So how do you explain things like Isaiah 34:4 ? Although the reference is to the sky and not the universe itself.

…3Their slain will be left unburied, and the stench of their corpses will rise; the mountains will flow with their blood. 4All the stars of heaven will be dissolved. The skies will be rolled up like a scroll, and all their stars will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like foliage from the fig tree. 5When My sword has drunk its fill in the heavens, then it will come down upon Edom, upon the people I have devoted to destruction.

We know that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. With the theory of entanglement this is not only distance but all past present and future. When we pray for healing, God does not heal memories. He goes back to the event to bring about restoration and healing. To bring things back to the way He proclaimed them to be.

Hi @Diamond7 .

I actually view Isaiah 34 as the end of our current physical (Particle) universe as well as the creation of a New Heavens and New Earth.

I view Stars as Angels. The particular Angels mentioned in the verses you posted are 'fallen'. They are going to be cast down to Earth to be judged later.

The skies being rolled up like a scroll has to do with the Book of Life being closed (i.e., judgement is final) and the Redeemed being caught up with the LORD. Some call it the Rapture.

I believe the 'falling away' are the fallen Angels...

2 Thessalonians 2:3
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition"

It all happens very quickly.

The Sword represents DNA and Genomes. There is a point where it will be 'filled'. Again, this points to the Book of Life being closed to any further redemption. All Genomes left over will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire.

Having said all that, it does seem like the universe goes from Particle to back to Wave. The Wave Function collapse is reversed or stopped somehow. Thus, the Scroll being 'rolled up' may have a multi-faceted meaning.

 

[Tuur]

Thanks @Tuur . I understand what you are saying.

The issue I have is how contradictory the statement I quoted was when compared to ubiquitous comments like this...

The Big Bang Theory is the leading explanation for how the universe began. Simply put, it says the universe as we know it started with an infinitely hot and dense single point that inflated and stretched — first at unimaginable speeds, and then at a more measurable rate — over the next 13.7 billion years to the still-expanding cosmos that we know today.

What Is the Big Bang Theory?

In other words, according to the Big Bang Theory, the Universe started as a single point... that is... until someone asks where the center is. Then all of a sudden, the goal post moves and next thing you know, there was no single point.

I think the, er, point they're making is that there's no discernable center. All of space and time in a single point that expands. But from what perspective is the point evident? From inside the point there's no clear center. When the point expands, from within the point it would appear that all space is moving away from the observer, as though they are at the center, but this would hold for every particular location inside the point. It's a situation like what's observed now, and goes to the famous example of dots on an expanding balloon. An observer within the point could deduce there was likely a time when the universe was much tinier, but where that point is impossible to observe from within the space of the observer.

I'm feeling a bit stupid, because it was only after thinking, while mowing, how an observer in the universe could determine the center that it hit me that since time can be regarded as a 4th dimension of space, then the center is the moment of the big bang. That should have been obvious.

FWIW, I don't have a theological problem with the big bang. It's always struck me at the point/moment that God spoke the universe into existence.

 

[Diamond72]

I view Stars as Angels

We actually are "star stuff". We know that stars falling from the sky are a meteor shower on the earth. This is associated with rotten stinking corpses which we know are the end of those who rebel against God and who war with God's people. In this case the attack is on Jerusalem.

the Book of Life being closed (i.e., judgement is final)

I believe every name is written in the Lambs book of life but there are names that are blotted out. It is a little difficult to believe God could have known the name of every person that would ever be born. This can only be explained with God being past, present and future. Then you get into Calvinism. Does God actually create people knowing He is going to destroy them? Still in Rev we are told that though Jesus their names will not be blotted out of the Book of Life.

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Psalm 69:28
May they be blotted out of the Book of Life and not listed with the righteous.

Paul quotes David (It is written) in Romans when He talks about how to be right with God. So there is a time of separation. Paul tells us that it is going to be clear who is and who is not approved by God.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

While studying the expanding universe, scientists learned that everything in the universe is moving away from everything else. IOWs the universe is expanding from a central point, and more than that, the further from the center a thing is, the faster it moves.
From our vantage point:
An object further away from the center than we are is moving faster than us. Therefore, they appear to be moving away from us.
An object at the same distance from the center as us is moving at the same speed as we are but is moving laterally away from us.
An object closer to the center than we is moving slower, so it appears (relatively) to be moving away from us, but we are actually moving faster away from them.
Imagine 9 dots arranged in 3 rows of 3 on the surface of a balloon. As the balloon expands, the dots all move away from each other.

 

[Diamond72]

everything in the universe is moving away from everything else.

I thought gravity pushed things together into systems. That interact with each other. Like the sun and planets in a solar system. Or the way stars and planets are formed.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I thought gravity pushed things together into systems. That interact with each other. Like the sun and planets in a solar system. Or the way stars and planets are formed.

The idea of an expanding universe is occurring at the galactic level. All the galaxies and intergalactic objects are moving away from each other while the individual star systems move by the effects of the space around them. The explanation is that at this moment in time, the outward force of inertia is greater than the gravitation force that seeks to pull things together. It's kind of like the upward momentum of a ball hit by a bat. You are correct. Science says that eventually, that momentum will either be reduced to where gravity will begin to pull everything back together, or all objects will achieve a universal "escape velocity," and all things will continue to fly away from the center. Of course, this is the surmising of science. They do not account for God or the truth of the Word.

 

[The Barbarian]

You might as well ask where the center of the surface of the Earth is located. There is no such thing.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

IOWs the universe is expanding from a central point, and more than that, the further from the center a thing is, the faster it moves.

Where is that center point? It is now believed there is no such thing in this dimension...or it is everywhere.

 

[Diamond72]

You are correct. Science says that eventually, that momentum will either be reduced to where gravity will begin to pull everything back together

God told me (in the dream) that the universe would all come back together again. We use words like shrink or contract. I can not remember what word He used. At the same time he told me my family was drifting apart but they would all come back together again. It was actually my sister that pulled us all back together when she talked my mom into buying a weekend vaccation home on a lake. So there were lots of toys, lots of good food and lots of good reason to get together with the family. I think my sister is in heaven doing the same thing now. Planning events to draw the extended family together.

 

[Lost4words]

God is the centre of the universe

 

[Diamond72]

God is the centre of the universe

Some people say God is everywhere.