If you think that Noah's flood was global and wish to wager on it,

[HarleyER]

They are still melting. I live in Northern Ohio and most everything here was effected by the glaciers.

Of course they're melting (most of them). That doesn't mean much of anything if Alaska and Canada was completely covered with ice.

 

[Diamond72]

Of course they're melting (most of them). That doesn't mean much of anything if Alaska and Canada was completely covered with ice.

They were covered with Ice and Flordia was a lot bigger than it is now. The biggest problem from the climate change is the level of the ocean and the issue of storm surges that cause flooding.

 

[Diamond72]

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on each of the above propositions? The stronger your belief in a proposition, the higher the weight.

If 10 is the most you will give me than I put a 10 on Noah's flood being "local" from OUR perspective. The issue is does Science contradict the Bible. I do not think there is a contradiction but we do have to interpret the word "Earth" to mean the ground or the soil or red clay that God formed Adam from in Eden. All of the eco systems make up the BioSphere. Chapter three in our High School Biology book. In this state this is required reading to qualify for a High School diploma. There is a difference between a Biosphere and a Eco system in science in that the BioSphere is all of the Ecosystems or the whole earth. In the Bible the earth can mean just Eden, and Earth can also be used to mean the whole BioSphere. This is where people get into trouble when they interpret Earth to mean the whole Biosphere and not just Eden or the Land God took Adam from.

We know that Adam and his descendants can not exist without food. If you want to save or preserve Adams descendants you have to provide them with food to Eat. That is what Noah did. We can read about these plants and animals in the Bible. For example herbs in the Bible are rue, dill, cummin, black cummin, frankincense, cinnamon, cassia, myrrh, black mustard, coriander, mint, saffron, ginger grass, syrian hyssop, aloes(eagle wood), manna which have the flavor, aroma, and medical values. This is what was on Noah's Ark.

I give it a ten based on how I interpret and define the word Earth. People who give it a zero do the exact same thing. They base their belief on their understanding and interpretation of the word Earth. Even though we all refer to the ground as earth.

 

[Diamond72]

Of course they're melting (most of them). That doesn't mean much of anything if Alaska and Canada was completely covered with ice.

Flooding from storm surge is an issue. We see this already in New Orleans and New York City. Also the permafrost is a problem because is is starting to melt in some areas. There are people losing their homes from both of these issues. Mostly people that are native to the land. My son lived in Alaska and his girlfriend was a native Alaskan. Her father and her children lived in their village but she lived in Anchorage.

 

[TheCabinetGuy]

P1 (that the flood was global): 10
P2 (that the flood was regional): 0, zilch, nada, no way Jose...

I'd bet my life on it...

Real science never contradicts the Bible. It is man's interpretation of the data through their screwed-up worldview that is the problem. If you are hostile to Christianity and the God of the Bible, then you'll naturally conjure up any other explanation as to what wiped out the dinosaurs other than a worldwide flood. Let's just say an asteroid or comet caused the mile-high tsunamis multiple times separated by millions of years and not connected, and that the split of the super-continent wasn't connected to this event but happened slowly over millions of years, and that it rained for a period of 2 million years nonstop... Asteroid, huh?

 

[The Barbarian]

Real science never contradicts the Bible. I

And because the Bible does not say Noah's flood was global, the evidence is consistent with God's word. It is man's revision of God's word that calls for a global flood.

If you are hostile to Christianity and the God of the Bible, then you'll naturally conjure up a global flood to meet your own ideas.

Let's just say an asteroid or comet caused the mile-high tsunamis multiple times separated by millions of years and not connected, and that the split of the super-continent wasn't connected to this event but happened slowly over millions of years, and that it rained for a period of 2 million years nonstop.

Again, you're putting words in God's mouth. Why not just accept His word as it is?

 

[Kokavkrystallos]

Lots of evidence of the global flood, and that it happened just 4,500- 5000 years ago.

I've driven right through this area in 1998. It is awesome to behold, and you get the feeling of the sheer power of the water during the flood.

New, not old. These beasts were buried in flood deposits.

Creation Studies Noah’s Flood

Creation science and studies - Noah’s Flood: The Key to Correct Interpretation of Earth History by John Baumgardner, Ph.D

www.socalsem.edu

 

[The Barbarian]

Here a former YE creationists debunks these and other YE hoaxes:​

The Confessions of a Disappointed Young-Earther​

An old-earth creationist explains how he changed is mind, surveyingthe shifts in young earth arguments over the last 50 years.

The Confessions of a Disappointed Young-Earther

An old-earth creationist explains how he changed is mind, surveyingthe shifts in young earth arguments over the last 50 years.

peacefulscience.org

The supposed "tissue" in a T rex fossil turned out to be nothing of the kind. Dr. Schweitzer herself debunked that hoax. There was some collagen in the shape of blood vessels. The interesting thing is that in those fossils, there was a bit of heme that survived ( which chemists point out is very possible over millions of years). When tested, the heme turned out to be most like that of birds, once again confirming that birds are the last surviving dinosaurs.

Would you like to learn about that?

Here's a site that debunks more of those hoaxes.

Common Creationist Attacks on Geology | National Center for Science Education

In the last issue of this journal, my article "The Fatal Flaws of Flood Geology" attacked the flood geology model of the Institute for Creation Research (ICR) by citing a number of geological formations the creationists can't explain without inventing hundreds of convenient ad hoc miracles.

ncse.ngo

And another:

Controversial T. Rex Soft Tissue Find Finally Explained

A T. rex found with soft tissue preserved in her bones was an 'iron lady,' according to new research finding that iron kept the tissues from decaying for millennia.

www.livescience.com

If you'd like anything clarified, let me know.

 

[Aaron112]

Those who look at the flesh, in the flesh, of the flesh,

do not believe God's Word is True. They do not trust Jesus.

 

[Aaron112]

The issue is does Science contradict the Bible.

Of course it does - it has to. It is necessary as God's Word Says So.

The flesh profits nothing, and is (always) opposed to spiritual. Truth. God never expected/expects the flesh to bring forth anything good, as He says it cannot.

 

[Kokavkrystallos]

Here a former YE creationists debunks these and other YE hoaxes:​

The Confessions of a Disappointed Young-Earther​

An old-earth creationist explains how he changed is mind, surveyingthe shifts in young earth arguments over the last 50 years.

The Confessions of a Disappointed Young-Earther

An old-earth creationist explains how he changed is mind, surveyingthe shifts in young earth arguments over the last 50 years.

peacefulscience.org

The supposed "tissue" in a T rex fossil turned out to be nothing of the kind. Dr. Schweitzer herself debunked that hoax. There was some collagen in the shape of blood vessels. The interesting thing is that in those fossils, there was a bit of heme that survived ( which chemists point out is very possible over millions of years). When tested, the heme turned out to be most like that of birds, once again confirming that birds are the last surviving dinosaurs.

Would you like to learn about that?

Here's a site that debunks more of those hoaxes.

Common Creationist Attacks on Geology | National Center for Science Education

In the last issue of this journal, my article "The Fatal Flaws of Flood Geology" attacked the flood geology model of the Institute for Creation Research (ICR) by citing a number of geological formations the creationists can't explain without inventing hundreds of convenient ad hoc miracles.

ncse.ngo

And another:

Controversial T. Rex Soft Tissue Find Finally Explained

A T. rex found with soft tissue preserved in her bones was an 'iron lady,' according to new research finding that iron kept the tissues from decaying for millennia.

www.livescience.com

If you'd like anything clarified, let me know.

Even if it is collagen, it decays too fast to be millions of years old.

It's ok if the heme is similar to birds. We actually have genetics similar to chimps but that small percent of difference makes all the difference.

I've seen studies where the points on fossils that are claimed to be where feathers were are actually points where tendons and other tissues were attached.

I'll use secular & evolutionist propaganda if it has evidence, and this shows remains that don't survive millions of years.

This Dinosaur Fossil Has Skin Intact – Here’s Why it’s Significant

Paleontologists unearthed a type of ankylosaur in 2011 with its spikes, armor and skin intact on its face.

www.discovermagazine.com

I like this part especially:

"The 2011 ankylosaur was not found under sediment, though. Rather, this fossil was found in what was once a deep ocean — an open-pit mine in Alberta, Canada. Scientists hypothesize that the animal likely died in a river and was then carried out to sea in a flooding event. Once there, the gasses that built up in its body after death dissipated, and the ankylosaur sank to the ocean floor."

Just as most dinosaur fossil finds are in graveyards showing catastrophic burial. "a flooding event..." Why of course it was! Amen. THE flooding event! The big one.

Catastrophic death by drowning​

About 93% of the BB43 fossils are Centrosaurus ceratopsian dinosaurs. In other words, the bone bed is almost monospecific.4 An analysis of the bones further indicates that the dinosaurs died elsewhere and were later transported into their final resting place. Much taphonomic information supports this deduction (taphonomy, from Greek taphos=death, is the study of how an organism or part thereof became a fossil). For instance, the fossils are typically concentrated along bedding planes and/or erosional unconformities with the suggestion of a 5-metre deep by 60-metre wide channel. The long bones are current aligned. Most of the remains are fragmentary, broken and fractured. The material represents a lag deposit with most small and light skeletal elements missing and being primarily composed of portions of large adult-sized skeletal elements. Carnivorous dinosaur teeth, especially from the theropod Albertosaurus, and very rare tooth marks on the bones have been found in the bone bed. Thus, the condition of the bones indicates modification by an external force, probably in a high-energy watery flow as the sedimentology of the contained sandstone indicates. The particular bone bed under discussion is found in water-laid sandstone with east-southeast directed paleocurrent indicators.

There is no evidence for prolonged weathering in the form of desiccation of the bones. No bacterial or fungal degradation nor insect borings have been found. Evidence for disease and drought are absent.5 Death, transport and burial seems to be very rapid. Transport was not far as bone abrasion by water was light. The authors suggest mass death by drowning upstream with subsequent reworking:

‘The sedimentological evidence and taphonomic interpretations presented here indicate that the bonebed 43 fossil assemblage was reworked from an, as yet, unknown upstream position and facies."

Watery catastrophe deduced from huge Ceratopsian dinosaur graveyard

Creation or evolution? It makes a big difference! Over 10,000 trustworthy articles. Evidence for biblical creation.

creation.com

 

[Diamond72]

Of course it does - it has to.

NO ONE has ever shown me where science contradicts the Bible.
The contradiction is between science and their interpretation of the Bible.
For me Science helps me to have a better understanding of the Word of God.
Science also helps me to have a better understanding of God Himself.
I have more reason to give praise, honor and glory to God because of Science.

 

[Vambram]

For me, I believe that the errors are made with the interpretation of scientific evidence and the Bible.

 

[Kokavkrystallos]

For me, I believe that the errors are made with the interpretation of scientific evidence and the Bible.

Yup, I think science actually confirms the Bible more than disproves it. In fact, it never disproves it. Theory is not fact. It's all interpretation, but some laws of nature such as how wind and water create different angles to dunes shows more water laid formations than wind - way more.

 

[Diamond72]

For me, I believe that the errors are made with the interpretation of scientific evidence and the Bible.

If the Bible agrees with Science and Science agrees with the Bible, where are the errors?
No one has ever show me a contradiction between science and the Bible.

NOTICE non theists never go after the Bible. They go after people's misunderstanding of the Bible.
I wonder if God gives us atheists to point out all the errors that theists make.

 

[Vambram]

If the Bible agrees with Science and Science agrees with the Bible, where are the errors?
No one has ever show me a contradiction between science and the Bible.

NOTICE non theists never go after the Bible. They go after people's misunderstanding of the Bible.
I wonder if God gives us atheists to point out all the errors that theists make.

Attempts have been made to show the erroneous interpretations of scientific evidence and the contradictions towards the Bible. However, Theistic evolutionists don't agree with interpretations made by young earth creationists. Instead, I honestly believe that Theistic evolutionists interprete verses out of context in order to get a meaning that fits into the belief of Old earth creationism.

 

[The Barbarian]

Even if it is collagen, it decays too fast to be millions of years old.

Not according to chemists. But I'd be pleased to look at your numbers on iron-stabilized decay for collagen if you disagree. What do you have?

It's ok if the heme is similar to birds.

Just another confirmed prediction of evolutionary theory. We know that the protein sequences of closely-related species are more similar than those that diverged earlier. While looking it up, turns out the collagen shows close relationships, too.

We actually have genetics similar to chimps

Of course, it's much, much more similar for humans and chimps, because humans and chimps diverged from a common ancestor much more recently.

For example, human cytochrome C is identical to chimpanzee cytochrome C. Not just similar.

but that small percent of difference makes all the difference.

Of course. As D'Arcy Thompson noted over a century ago, it looks as though much of the difference between chimpanzees and humans is in developmental timing. Would you like to learn how we know?

BTW, your Gobi fossils are buried in what was dry sand. The famous ovoraptor protoceratops find was from a collapsed sand dune. Want to learn about that?

I've seen studies where the points on fossils that are claimed to be where feathers were are actually points where tendons and other tissues were attached.

Sounds interesting. Show us that. Meantime...

Dinosaur tail with feathers. Amber from Cretaceous period. It's not just feathers. Name me one feature of birds not also found on other dinosaurs. What do you have? I used to know one, but recently that was also found on a dinosaur. Let's see if you can do better.

I'll use secular & evolutionist propaganda if it has evidence

You're welcome. Enjoy.

"The 2011 ankylosaur was not found under sediment, though. Rather, this fossil was found in what was once a deep ocean — an open-pit mine in Alberta, Canada. Scientists hypothesize that the animal likely died in a river and was then carried out to sea in a flooding event. Once there, the gasses that built up in its body after death dissipated, and the ankylosaur sank to the ocean floor."

Yeah, that's pretty common. The Karoo formation in South Africa, for example, is the remains of a river delta where millions of large animals were swept downstream and sank. The ankylosaur has a lot of company. Would you like to learn about that?

 

[The Barbarian]

They do not trust Jesus.

Jesus did not discuss evolution, and He did not say that the flood covered the whole world. Listen to what He says to you, not what you'd like Him to say.

 

[Diamond72]

Theistic evolutionists don't agree with interpretations made by young earth creationists.

Bishop Ussher can almost be considered the father of YEC. I have no problem with his almost 2,000 page book because it is a history of the last 6,000 years, He simply does not talk much about what happened before Adam and Eve. The second chapter of Genesis begins with Adam and Eve. That is why I can be OEC and YEC because there is very little in the Bible that they conflict over. ONLY the meaning of one word, the length of a day. Otherwise OEC and YEC are pretty much in agreement.

 

[Aaron112]

Jesus did not discuss evolution, and He did not say that the flood covered the whole world. Listen to what He says to you, not what you'd like Him to say.

If you trust Jesus, He may deliver you from the pit.