Mexican Cartels wiped out competition in USA fentanyl market

[Hans Blaster]

The problem with western culture is, frankly, that we are too "nice" to criminals, or lawbreakers of any kind. This may help some to understand:

I'm having a real difficulty telling the difference between the libertarians and the fascists at this point.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Were the drugs they supplied available legally they would be shut out of the market in a similar manner to how their predecessors were shut out of the alcohol industry at the end of that period of prohibition.

Wouldn't they just become legal distributors?

 

[Reasonably Sane]

Yes, our prisons are well known for their lack or drugs.

That's why this is a specialized prison. I was trying to be brief without getting into the weeds of how it would handle that issue.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

I'm having a real difficulty telling the difference between the libertarians and the fascists at this point.

I've been a student of WWII since the late 60's. Fascism was invented by Mussolini. At a high level, the difference between fascism and socialism is that socialism "owns" the businesses. Fascism lets them be privately owned, but heavily regulates them. Think the minimum wage and Obamacare.

I don't know how you attached fascism to that video, though.

 

[Pommer]

That's why this is a specialized prison. I was trying to be brief without getting into the weeds of how it would handle that issue.

I do not know if the refrain of “more prisons” would be the panacea you’re looking for it to be.

 

[Zaha Torte]

I do not know if the refrain of “more prisons” would be the panacea you’re looking for it to be.

There are definitely a lot of people that shouldn't be in prison. A large chunk of them should be in the ground.

 

[BCP1928]

They legalized marijuana in a ton of places and the cartels are just as big and powerful as ever. I don't think legalization works.

The cartels never ran on marijuana, not enough profit margin, too hard to smuggle They started with coke and heroin then moved into pharmaceuticals.

 

[Zaha Torte]

The cartels never ran on marijuana, not enough profit margin, too hard to smuggle They started with coke and heroin then moved into pharmaceuticals.

Then who was sending all that marijuana I caught at the border?

 

[BCP1928]

That's why this is a specialized prison. I was trying to be brief without getting into the weeds of how it would handle that issue.

Which would leave you with several problems.

1. Putting existing fentanyl users in person would not eliminate them from society. There will be plenty of eager volunteers ready to step up.
2. You won't eliminate the cartels that way, either. It is a certainty that they are already preparing the next "big thing" for when fentanyl use peaks (which it apparently has) That's part of their business model.
3. You still have the considerable remainder of their cash flow to worry about. Who will you put in prison next?
4. Mexico presently exercises no effective sovereignty over the northern tier of Mexican states next to our southern border. The cartels administer them through corrupt local LEOs and politicians. This has led to a number of serious problems for us in terms of border control. The cartels have encouraged asylum seekers and make good money escorting through territory they control. It also aids in smuggling, as the Mexican authorities are unable to deter it from the other side of the border.

What do you plan to do about all that?

 

[BCP1928]

Then who was sending all that marijuana I caught at the border?

Haha. What didn't you catch?

 

[Zaha Torte]

Haha. What didn't you catch?

Probably a lot - but I did catch a lot.

The hardest stuff I caught was some black-tar heroin. A big fat guy had it in his crotch. He was walking funny.

I also caught a guy who was wanted for murder.

It felt good when I was allowed to do my job!

 

[Reasonably Sane]

Which would leave you with several problems.

1. Putting existing fentanyl users in person would not eliminate them from society. There will be plenty of eager volunteers ready to step up.
2. You won't eliminate the cartels that way, either. It is a certainty that they are already preparing the next "big thing" for when fentanyl use peaks (which it apparently has) That's part of their business model.
3. You still have the considerable remainder of their cash flow to worry about. Who will you put in prison next?
4. Mexico presently exercises no effective sovereignty over the northern tier of Mexican states next to our southern border. The cartels administer them through corrupt local LEOs and politicians. This has led to a number of serious problems for us in terms of border control. The cartels have encouraged asylum seekers and make good money escorting through territory they control. It also aids in smuggling, as the Mexican authorities are unable to deter it from the other side of the border.

What do you plan to do about all that?

No. To repeat: I was trying to be brief without getting into the weeds of how it would handle that issue.

My take for a very long time is that the way to solve the problem is to eliminate demand. Any other attempt is futile. That's why Prohibition didn't work. And, IMO, if we had severely punished the customers during prohibition, we may be still under prohibition. Not that I'm a fan of prohibition. I'm not. And such draconian measures against use of something "relatively" benign and common throughout human history would bring its own problems. Fentanyl (and a lot of other drugs) is different.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I don't know how you attached fascism to that video, though.

The language of violence and retribution is a key facet of fascist rhetoric. Rubin used to claim to be a libertarian. I don't here a lot of that in his commentary.

 

[BCP1928]

The language of violence and retribution is a key facet of fascist rhetoric. Rubin used to claim to be a libertarian. I don't here a lot of that in his commentary.

No one who takes the conservative side in the culture wars can be considered a libertarian.

 

[Hans Blaster]

No one who takes the conservative side in the culture wars can be considered a libertarian.

Depending on how you define both conservative and culture war, but I agree generally. Dave Rubin once declared himself to be a libertarian and his commentary reflected that. What I saw in that clip was reactionary.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

I do not know if the refrain of “more prisons” would be the panacea you’re looking for it to be.

I don't think it would be. The problem is that you can to to one of two extremes regarding "law and order". You can go too far, as was done in a Star Trek TNG episode where they were marveling at how beautiful, clean and safe the culture on a planet was, and then the kid accidentally tripped and smashed some flowers in a garden. The penalty? Death. Or you can go too far the other way and take an overt "boys will be boys" attitude, where you just stop enforcing all but the most violent of crimes, as we seem to be inching toward in the US and in Europe. Perhaps the Singapore route is a good happy medium, though done in a way that doesn't violate a country's constitutionally protected rights.

But honestly, I'm only musing. As far as I'm concerned, we're doomed, and probably within the next two years. But then, there is plenty written about it in our bibles, IMO. Ultimately, my salvation is not in the leaders, cultures and governments of this world. It is in Jesus the Christ. We can all see what a mess they've made of it. It's why I left the city 13 years ago for rural Kentucky. Third best decision I ever made. I'm enjoying a spectacular view from my mancave over my own garden of Eden as a light mist falls. The number of shades of green is remarkable. And the coffee is great!

 

[Reasonably Sane]

The language of violence and retribution is a key facet of fascist rhetoric. Rubin used to claim to be a libertarian. I don't here a lot of that in his commentary.

I wasn't seeing "the language of violence and retribution" in that video. I was seeing an explanation of their phrase "suicidal empathy". I compare it to reaching out your hand to A Coyote, thinking it will respond as a domesticated dog will. It won't. And the sooner you realize it and how to respond, the better. Frankly, it's about self preservation. It's often a mistake to project ones own sensibilities onto others. You can get hurt if you're not careful.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I wasn't seeing "the language of violence and retribution" in that video. I was seeing an explanation of their phrase "suicidal empathy". I compare it to reaching out your hand to A Coyote, thinking it will respond as a domesticated dog will. It won't. And the sooner you realize it and how to respond, the better. Frankly, it's about self preservation. It's often a mistake to project ones own sensibilities onto others. You can get hurt if you're not careful.

It is this kind of dehumanizing language that starts othering people that is core to fascist rhetoric. The characterization of entropy as a weakness definitely fits the profile. There has been a lot of this kind of stuff from the previously libertarian "bros" of late.

 

[Desk trauma]

Wouldn't they just become legal distributors?

No, just like how bootleggers didn’t make the jump to legality with their bathtub gin.

 

[Zaha Torte]

No, just like how bootleggers didn’t make the jump to legality with their bathtub gin.

I don't think the situations are comparable.

Alcohol was legal before prohibition - meaning that they had a lot of breweries and distilleries and all the distribution they needed both before and after.

Most of these drugs have never been legal and we don't find them being made everywhere.

I think the moment you legalize everything - the cartels would immediately fill the void in production and distribution.