A SECOND TEMPLE IN EGYPT:THE EVIDENCE FOR THE ZADOKITE TEMPLE OF ONIAS

[be(t)et lamed resh]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. Clearly he did not respect the authority of the Zadokites, or he would have been persecuted, with the rest of those who recognized our beloved Messiah.

Here's another one for you:

As Josephus was himself a Pharisee, his account might represent a historical creation meant to elevate the status of the Pharisees during the height of the Hasmonean Dynasty.[39]

Are you aware of the term "interpolation "?

 

[Yahudim]

@be(t)et lamed resh

I have been following your interactions with various participants of my thread concerning this PDF and the conflicting accounts of Josephus. This PDF and multiple sources identified Josephus as a Pharisee, to which you reacted by pointing out that there were different schools. Josephus is on-topic. Which Pharisee school he may have subscribed to is most definitely off-topic.

Then when a participant brought up the authority of the Zadokites (Deu 17:8-13, Eze 44:15,23-24) you responded by quoting talmud, e.g. Shabbat 31a, an account of a gentile seeking conversion via Torah only (who was then rejected with admonitions). While this is an example of differing schools of Pharisees, it could be construed as an insult to a gentile believer in Messiah Yeshua seeking 'the adoption of sons' under Torah and is so far off topic as to be disruptive enough to completely derail my thread.

It is for this cause that I sincerely ask that you to refrain from bringing in external citations that do not directly pertain to this discussion. May the blessings and revelations of our loving Messiah Yeshua guide you in all things!

Shalom

 

[daq]

Tell the truth. You have multiple conflicting time-line graphs papering your walls, with notes and arrows or strings pointing to different events. Right? (Since my marriage, I'm no longer allowed to decorate the walls. )

I am trying to do something similar in the virtual world. It is the only hope I have of keeping up. Thanks for sharing all of this. It really helps.

Lol, probably not far off, except that the arrows, lines, numbers, and dates are on the inner walls of my mind: that way the arrows and lines can change colors and sometimes even wake me up in the middle of the night when a siren or a trumpet goes off.

 

[daq]

"Greco constellations" should be self evident/explanatory. They are the patterns put forth by Aristotle the greek philosopher and contemporaries at around 100ad.

Thanks, and therefore your argument is moot.

 

[be(t)et lamed resh]

@be(t)et lamed resh

I have been following your interactions with various participants of my thread concerning this PDF and the conflicting accounts of Josephus. This PDF and multiple sources identified Josephus as a Pharisee, to which you reacted by pointing out that there were different schools. Josephus is on-topic. Which Pharisee school he may have subscribed to is most definitely off-topic.

Then when a participant brought up the authority of the Zadokites (Deu 17:8-13, Eze 44:15,23-24) you responded by quoting talmud, e.g. Shabbat 31a, an account of a gentile seeking conversion via Torah only (who was then rejected with admonitions). While this is an example of differing schools of Pharisees, it could be construed as an insult to a gentile believer in Messiah Yeshua seeking 'the adoption of sons' under Torah and is so far off topic as to be disruptive enough to completely derail my thread.

It is for this cause that I sincerely ask that you to refrain from bringing in external citations that do not directly pertain to this discussion. May the blessings and revelations of our loving Messiah Yeshua guide you in all things!

Shalom

What?
Shabbat 31a is a conversation between hillel and shameil .
Hei and sheila. Shin and samek.
Something of which is further discussed by another number of Torah students.

Quite the handle ,
Yahudim

 

[be(t)et lamed resh]

Thanks, and therefore your argument is moot.

Ok, yes my words are mute.

Where then do you propose the Egyptian/Jewish temple was located?

 

[be(t)et lamed resh]

@be(t)et lamed resh

I have been following your interactions with various participants of my thread concerning this PDF and the conflicting accounts of Josephus. This PDF and multiple sources identified Josephus as a Pharisee, to which you reacted by pointing out that there were different schools. Josephus is on-topic. Which Pharisee school he may have subscribed to is most definitely off-topic.

Then when a participant brought up the authority of the Zadokites (Deu 17:8-13, Eze 44:15,23-24) you responded by quoting talmud, e.g. Shabbat 31a, an account of a gentile seeking conversion via Torah only (who was then rejected with admonitions). While this is an example of differing schools of Pharisees, it could be construed as an insult to a gentile believer in Messiah Yeshua seeking 'the adoption of sons' under Torah and is so far off topic as to be disruptive enough to completely derail my thread.

It is for this cause that I sincerely ask that you to refrain from bringing in external citations that do not directly pertain to this discussion. May the blessings and revelations of our loving Messiah Yeshua guide you in all things!

Shalom

Forgive me good sir.
I meant no disrespect whit a lack of decorum

 

[HARK!]

Shabbat 31a is a conversation between hillel and shameil .
Hei and sheila. Shin and samek.
Something of which is further discussed by another number of Torah students.

The Zadokites, in all of their authority regarding scripture, didn't subscribe to either of those schools. They submitted to Yahshua, his authority, his school. They prophesied of his coming in their writings; and they recognized his authority when they met them.


(CLV) Mt 28:18
And, approaching, Jesus speaks to them saying, "Given to Me was all authority in heaven and on the earth.

(CLV) Mt 28:19
Going, then, disciple all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit,

(CLV) Mt 28:20
teaching them to be keeping all, whatever I direct you. And lo! I am with you all the days till the conclusion of the eon! Amen!"

Now that the hierarchy of authority is settled; can we speak more about the Zadokites, and where they fled when ousted from the temple by imposters?

 

[be(t)et lamed resh]

The Zadokites, in all of their authority regarding scripture, didn't subscribe to either of those schools. They submitted to Yahshua, his authority, his school. They prophesied of his coming in their writings; and they recognized his authority when they met them.


(CLV) Mt 28:18
And, approaching, Jesus speaks to them saying, "Given to Me was all authority in heaven and on the earth.

(CLV) Mt 28:19
Going, then, disciple all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit,

(CLV) Mt 28:20
teaching them to be keeping all, whatever I direct you. And lo! I am with you all the days till the conclusion of the eon! Amen!"

Now that the hierarchy of authority is settled; can we speak more about the Zadokites, and where they fled when ousted from the temple by imposters?

Cute.
Hiram is not a forte

 

[daq]

Ok, yes my words are mute.

The point is like this:

Josephus, AJ. Bk. 3, 248
[248] In the month of Xanthicus, which is by us called Nisan, and is the beginning of our year, on the fourteenth day of the lunar month, when the sun is in Aries, (for in this month it was that we were delivered from bondage under the Egyptians,) the law ordained that we should every year slay that sacrifice which I before told you we slew when we came out of Egypt, and which was called the Passover; and so we do celebrate this passover in companies, leaving nothing of what we sacrifice till the day following.
Josephus, Antiquities - Perseus

Does it accomplish or prove anything to react in the following manner?

Oh no! Josephus used Greek and mentioned a Greek constellation to pinpoint the timing of Hag Pesakh! Oh the humanity! Oh the blasphemy! Convene the Sanhedrin! Call down fire upon his head and label him a pagan!

OR

Is it not better to hear what he says and understand the constellation that he speaks of in the more ancient Hebrew way, and realize that they also had the same constellation but obviously did not call it Aries, and did not draw it the same exact way as the Greeks and the western world now imagine it? What does Aries mean in Greek? Does it not imply a ram? In fact the Greek word used for Aries is Κριός, literally, a ram. We can learn the truth from both the heavens and from our forefathers who left us a written record in stone petroglyphs scattered all over the Negev region, emanating from a central location now called Har Karkom.

Where then do you propose the Egyptian/Jewish temple was located?

I am not yet sure, that's what we are trying to find out here, but the majority consensus among scholarship appears to be the place better known as Leontopolis: whether they are correct or not, I do not know.

 

[HARK!]

by us called Nisan,

Us? Did the Zadokites name their months after Pagan gods like Nisan and Tammuz? If not, this would present more evidence of the conflicting beliefs demonstrated, by you, The author of the linked PDF, Yahudim, and me, between Josephus the Pharisee, and the rightful Zadokim authorities.

 

[daq]

Us? Did the Zadokites name their months after Pagan gods like Nisan and Tammuz? If not, this would present more evidence of the conflicting beliefs demonstrated, by you, The author of the linked PDF, Yahudim, and me, between Josephus the Pharisee, and the rightful Zadokim authorities.

Yep, I wholeheartedly agree. The attitude in itself is Pharisaic, as if to say, We, the true people of Elohim, call the month Nisan. Meanwhile there were sects like the Tzadokim who did not. It may not have been intentional, or meant as strongly as I have portrayed it, but the underlying attitude comes forth in the wording of the statement.

 

[Yahudim]

What?
Shabbat 31a is a conversation between hillel and shameil .
Hei and sheila. Shin and samek.
Something of which is further discussed by another number of Torah students.

Quite the handle ,
Yahudim

Hillel and Shameil are not Zadokim. Are you incapable of discussing the PDF upon which the Op is based? It seems that all you are interested in is derailing our conversation about the Zadokite Temple in Egypt. Please stop.

 

[Yahudim]

May this Shabbat find you all whole and well, sharing His love with those closest to you and basking in His Presence. Shabbat Shalom!

 

[HARK!]

Shabbat shalom

 

[HARK!]

From the PDF:

"Furthermore, the connection between the "Zadokites" of the docu-
ments in the Dead Sea Scrolls corpus and the Zadokites of the Egyptian temple built by Onias III should surely be investigated further."

I most certainly agree. I also find it very refreshing to see a scholar rightly credit the DSS to the Zadokites, rather than the Essenes of Ein Gedi.

 

[HARK!]

Those who possessed the kingdom therefore called themselves Hessenim, (Essenes), at Dameshek-Qumran, (or at least that is what outsiders called them), and thus the relationship between the Hessenim at Dameshek

I believe that you will greatly enjoy this scholarly dissertation; as it covers discussion of the solar calendar. However I think that you will greatly benefit from listening from about the 53 minute mark to the 1:06:35 mark.

"The Essenes are not known in the Hebrew language."

Rachel Elior (born 28 December 1949) is an Israeli professor of Jewish philosophy at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in Jerusalem, Israel. Her principal subjects of research has been Hasidism and the history of early Jewish mysticism.[1]

Academic career​

Elior is the John and Golda Cohen Professor of Jewish Philosophy and Jewish Mystical Thought at the Hebrew University, where she has taught since 1978. Currently she is the head of the Department of Jewish Thought. She earned her PhD Summa cum laude in 1976. Her specialties are early Jewish Mysticism, the Dead Sea Scrolls, Hekhalot literature, Messianism, Sabbatianism, Hasidism, Chabad,[2] Frankism and the role of women in Jewish culture.

She has been a visiting professor at Princeton University, UCL, Yeshiva University, the University of Tokyo, Doshisha University in Kyoto, Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, in the University of Chicago and at the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor.

She is a member of the board of the international council of the New Israel Fund.

Rachel Elior - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[HARK!]

Have you seen this artifact? It is incredible, and what brought it to mind was the circle at the bottom of the inner ring on the sundial pictured above. Having looked at that Menorah once again I have come to realize that not only is it a Menorah but it is fashioned in the resemblance of a sundial, and even has the circle in the same location, at the bottom center of the Menorah. It appears to be representing the seven lights of the seven yamim in a yom of the opening creation account in the form of the Menorah.

Hamath Tiberias Menorah

That is a very interesting observation!

 

[HARK!]

Paul is accused of being the new ringleader of the Nazarim, and does not deny it, but rather calls the sect the Way.

"The Way" is language that we find frequently in the writings found at Betharaba (Bethabara) (renamed Qumran by Islam) in the wilderness beyond the Jordan valley, where there were large mikvehs, which were suitable for Zadokites like John the Baptist to do their work, as their writings indicated that they were awaiting Messiah to come and meet them there.

However it seems that these obscure clues are often overlooked, by scholars.

Where was Paul's initial conversion under the name Shaul? That was of course right outside Dameshek, where Hananyah the Kohen and other believers and adherents of the Way had taken refuge, (Hanan and Hananyah are well known names of the families of the Kohanim, even Annas in the Gospel accounts is just the Greek transliteration of Hanan, just so everyone else knows), and Shaul was on his way there to bind them and bring them back to Yerushalem for punishment. Are you getting the picture here? (Surely you are, Achi). Which Dameshek was this? The one in Syria or the one at that particular famous location that is now called Khirbet Qumran?

I gathered similar speculations as I was reading the Damascus Document found at Betharaba; but maybe all of these direct correlations are sheer coincidence.

 

[HARK!]

As I was reading the PDF, I recalled the recounting of Yahshua's childhood, where is parents (who were obviously quite acquainted with the Zadokim) fled to Egypt to protect Yahshua. For most of my life I have quietly asked to myself "why Egypt." Armed with this new information, the question has shifted to boldly ask aloud, "why not Egypt!"