Yet Again, At Planet Fitness...

[rturner76]

You shouldn't tell lies about people to make them look bad and personal attacks like that are against the rules.

Was I mistaken in what I said or do you prefer that everyone should have a right to privacy. If you felt attacked I apologize. The thing is I think the conservative stance on this issue makes the conservative look bad on their own. So again, is it better that the nakedness should be on display for other women or are private showers a viable alternative?

 

[Ana the Ist]

So let me get this straight....it's also not possible to build private showers with a space in front of the stall to change?

Private showers with private lockers and toilets....

Essentially tiny little rooms with lockable doors at the gym that include a locker, toilet, shower, etc...

For as many members as can use the gym at any one time.

I'm not going to say it's impossible it just seems extremely wasteful (of both space and materials) and likely to be expensive, which I'm sure you know will be passed onto the consumer.

Why exactly does a gym need to recreate the locker rooms and showers and everything again? Because some people don't think the rules should apply to them?

Can you see why it's really a non-issue if it's dealt with in a fair way?

I see it as a non-issue now if everyone just ignores these insane demands.

 

[A2SG]

This started out as males posing as females needing to use female restrooms to keep from getting attacked.

You forgot to post evidence for this.

And why would you suppose kids don't attack other kids?

I have no idea if they are, or aren't. You presumed it, so provide evidence already.

The only times in my life I was ever physically attacked was when I was a kid by other kids. Girls have been attacked by trans students in girls school restrooms.

You keep forgetting to provide evidence for your assertions.

Stop and think for a minute about all the places that have public restrooms. Elementary schools, middle schools, high schools, collages, universities, office buildings, theaters, hospitals, libraries, bus stations, train stations, airports etc etc. It's your idea to build zillions of single use restrooms, so you're the one who should be thinking out how that's going to be done in a practical way.

The idea was suggested (I forget who initially proposed it), and it would certainly solve the problem you seem so concerned about, that of women being attacked by trans folks. Now you seem to be saying that protecting women isn't cost effective, so why bother?

I guess I'm just confused as to how concerned you are about this issue. And since you've posted no stats or evidence to suggest this is a significantly pervasive issue, we have no idea whether or not it's really all that much of a problem.

For example, I do have some stats available: two thirds of all sexual assaults occur in or near the victim's home or a relative's home (55% + 12%). Only 10% occurred in an enclosed, but public area like a parking lot or garage. Bathrooms probably fit into this category somewhere, so let's just say less than 10%, at best. 8% occur in schools. Further, putting aside where attacks occur, most victims are attacked by someone they know, usually someone they're intimately involved with.

There is no data on how many of the perpetrators are trans, though. Given that they are a significantly small part of the population, it'd be difficult to conclude they contribute more attacks, per capita, than an average person, unless there is specific evidence that indicates otherwise.

This isn't to say that sexual attacks aren't something to be concerned about...but targeting trans people as perpetrators doesn't seem warranted, given how many actual attackers you'd ignore in doing so. Plus which, focusing on a small percentage of the places where attacks happen also does nothing about the far larger number of attacks that occur elsewhere.

So, is the problem actually women being attacked? Or maybe, just possibly, could it be something else?

-- A2SG, not gonna speculate, you'd have to tell me.....

 

[rturner76]

The difference is whether or not you can see someone's feet by crouching down.

With a properly fitting door in a frame one would not be allowed to see anything/ Again is having a private shower worse than having a wide open shower full of naked people male or female? It's like a conservative mind cannot accept the right to privacy more than they can accept removing trans people from the shower. Is that more like practical or more bigoted? At the end of the day it seems that the conservative doctrine prefers forcing women to look at each other's naked bodies rather than just making showers private. Can you in good conscience say why it is more appropriate to force women to shower together in the nude rather than in privacy.? I can see how it's hard to comprehend the concept of private showers when conservative thinking requires that we make either no changes to policy or as little change as possible according to the definition of conservative

Is it really more about shunning trans people than simply providing private showers or would it just be easier and less discriminatory to provide a private shower?

 

[rturner76]

Private showers with private lockers and toilets....

Essentially tiny little rooms with lockable doors at the gym that include a locker, toilet, shower, etc...

For as many members as can use the gym at any one time.

I'm not going to say it's impossible it just seems extremely wasteful (of both space and materials) and likely to be expensive, which I'm sure you know will be passed onto the consumer.

Why exactly does a gym need to recreate the locker rooms and showers and everything again? Because some people don't think the rules should apply to them?

I think it's doable to get your clothes out of your locker and bring them into your private shower to change when you're done. Do you find that so complicated that it's not possible or do you just not want to shower next to a trans person?

I see it as a non-issue now if everyone just ignores these insane demands.

So it's insane to want a private shower now? What is the deal with preferring to get naked with others rather than get naked in private? It's so bad that conservatives so stuck in their old ways so much that they think it is impossible to make a change in their routine and take a private shower? Is there some reason that conservatives cannot shower in private? When a conservative showers, what makes them feel like it is unfair to do it privately? What it comes down to is what do you conservatives gain from looking at each other's naked bodies. Considering that it is insane to prefer to take a shower when nobody is staring at your bum

 

[Ceallaigh]

With a properly fitting door in a frame one would not be allowed to see anything/ Again is having a private shower worse than having a wide open shower full of naked people male or female? It's like a conservative mind cannot accept the right to privacy more than they can accept removing trans people from the shower. Is that more like practical or more bigoted? At the end of the day it seems that the conservative doctrine prefers forcing women to look at each other's naked bodies rather than just making showers private. Can you in good conscience say why it is more appropriate to force women to shower together in the nude rather than in privacy.? I can see how it's hard to comprehend the concept of private showers when conservative thinking requires that we make either no changes to policy or as little change as possible according to the definition of conservative

Is it really more about shunning trans people than simply providing private showers or would it just be easier and less discriminatory to provide a private shower?

Once again, virtually all restrooms have locking stalls and most of them have stalls that hide a person well enough that you can only see their feet while couching down which is good enough. Many places also have portioned shower stalls. But what about changing areas? Should there be individual dressing rooms built too? What about saunas? Should individual single person saunas be built? What about spas? The man shaving in the women's locker room at Planet Fitness was in a common area. Or are there supposed to be individual rooms with sinks too? This is a demand that millions of places install billions of individual floor to ceiling rooms containing a toilet, shower, locker and sink - just to accommodate men pretending to be women.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Was I mistaken in what I said or do you prefer that everyone should have a right to privacy. If you felt attacked I apologize. The thing is I think the conservative stance on this issue makes the conservative look bad on their own. So again, is it better that the nakedness should be on display for other women or are private showers a viable alternative?

I could say liberals have an obsession with nudity and genitalia considering how frequently they bring it up. The man in the woman's locker at planet fitness wasn't naked nor were his genitals exposed. That was never part of the complaint.

Here's the question liberals don't want to give a straight answer to: Why do biological males need to use women's facilities?

 

[A2SG]

Once again, virtually all restrooms have locking stalls and most of them have stalls that hide a person well enough that you can only see their feet while couching down which is good enough. Many places also have portioned shower stalls. But what about changing areas? Should there be individual dressing rooms built too? What about saunas? Should individual single person saunas be built? What about spas? The man shaving in the women's locker room at Planet Fitness was in a common area. Or are there supposed to be individual rooms with sinks too? This is a demand that millions of places install billions of individual floor to ceiling rooms containing a toilet, shower, locker and sink - just to accommodate men pretending to be women.

Wait....I thought the problem was women being attacked? Now the problem is accommodating people whose lives you don't approve of?

Pick a lane, dude.

-- A2SG, all those things would solve the attacking problem, after all.....any accommodating issues would just be a byproduct....

 

[A2SG]

Here's the question liberals don't want to give a straight answer to: Why do biological males need to use women's facilities?

I'll give one: because that's not how they think of themselves.

-- A2SG, simple as that.....

 

[Ana the Ist]

I think it's doable to get your clothes out of your locker and bring them into your private shower to change when you're done.

I'm not saying it isn't doable....I'm saying that you're essentially asking for a private bathroom like you have in your home with a shower, toilet and locker for every single member. The size of this area will need to be bigger than the gym itself.

It's a rather ridiculous request when the system we have now works fine.

What exactly is wrong with the current system that prevents trans people from following the rules?

 

[Pommer]

No one is telling them they can’t use the restroom. They are being asked to use the one that corresponds with their genitalia.

Restroom hardware will accommodate both sets of usual human genitalia, so why is this “important”?

 

[Ceallaigh]

Realistically you don't have shower any place other than at home. One can go in, work out, and then go home to shower and change etc.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Restroom hardware will accommodate both sets of usual human genitalia, so why is this “important”?

Here we go with genitalia again. I've virtually never seen genitalia in a public restroom. Apparently the left use restrooms where genitalia is frequently on display. Or they hardly have used public restrooms at all, so they don't realize people don't parade around with their genitalia exposed.

 

[Pommer]

Realistically you don't have shower any place other than at home. One can go in, work out, and then go home to shower and change etc.

Public bathing has been a thing for centuries.

 

[Ceallaigh]

I'll give one: because that's not how they think of themselves.

-- A2SG, simple as that.....

That's a want, not a need.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Public bathing has been a thing for centuries.

The point is, it's not mandatory.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Wait....I thought the problem was women being attacked? Now the problem is accommodating people whose lives you don't approve of?

Pick a lane, dude.

-- A2SG, all those things would solve the attacking problem, after all.....any accommodating issues would just be a byproduct....

The original campaign for biological male transwomen not using men's rooms, is they supposedly would get attacked.

People pretending to be something they're not, doesn't merit boatloads of concessions to accommodate fantasies.

 

[A2SG]

That's a want, not a need.

Sorry, but I would have thought why they need to use the bathroom is rather obvious.

-- A2SG, kind of goes without saying, really....

 

[Ceallaigh]

Sorry, but I would have thought why they need to use the bathroom is rather obvious.

-- A2SG, kind of goes without saying, really....

But why do biological males need to use the woman's restroom instead of the men's restroom?

 

[A2SG]

The original campaign for biological male transwomen not using men's rooms they would supposedly get attacked.

You forgot to include documentation for that "original campaign."

People pretending to be something they're not, don't merit boatloads of concessions to accommodate their fantasy.

Your view isn't exactly an objective one, my friend. Your bias is clearly demonstrated.

Besides, I don't see how using a bathroom requires "boatloads of concessions" anyway. If they're not doing anything wrong, then there's no problem at all.

-- A2SG, keep in mind, absolutely no one is advocating for trans people to be allowed to show off their genitalia at random......