Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Valletta]

What!? He didn’t rend his clothes and sit in ashes!?
Pfft.

Instead he spends his time going after Israel. What a hypocrite Joe is:

‘Tragic mistake': U.S. determines Kabul drone strike killed innocent aid worker, nine family members​

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/17/tragic-mistake-us-drone-strike-512586

Civilian casualties in Afghanistan hit record highs amid U.S. withdrawal, UN report says​

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/27/civilian-casualties-in-afghanistan-hit-record-highs-amid-us-withdrawal-un-says.html

US generals blame Biden for botched Afghan exit

The top two U.S. generals who oversaw the evacuation of Afghanistan as it fell to the Taliban in August 2021 blamed the Biden administration for the chaotic departure, telling lawmakers Tuesday that it inadequately planned for the evacuation and did not order it in time.

news.yahoo.com

Yet Israel and other countries did not call for a new election to overthrow the Biden regime.

 

[Desk trauma]

Instead he spends his time going after Israel. What a hypocrite Joe is:

‘Tragic mistake': U.S. determines Kabul drone strike killed innocent aid worker, nine family members​

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/17/tragic-mistake-us-drone-strike-512586

Civilian casualties in Afghanistan hit record highs amid U.S. withdrawal, UN report says​

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/27/civilian-casualties-in-afghanistan-hit-record-highs-amid-us-withdrawal-un-says.html

US generals blame Biden for botched Afghan exit

The top two U.S. generals who oversaw the evacuation of Afghanistan as it fell to the Taliban in August 2021 blamed the Biden administration for the chaotic departure, telling lawmakers Tuesday that it inadequately planned for the evacuation and did not order it in time.

news.yahoo.com

Yet Israel and other countries did not call for a new election to overthrow the Biden regime.

If the Taliban had just surrendered this wouldn’t have happened, they are responsible for the deaths.

….or does that standard only apply to Israel?

 

[Valletta]

If the Taliban had just surrendered this wouldn’t have happened, they are responsible for the deaths.

….or does that standard only apply to Israel?

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of Joe Biden in going after Israel. The arrogance and gall of the man. Remember Joe had ISIS prisoners released days before and one of them was the suicide bomber. And Joe pulled out the military before getting all civilians out. Joe didn't have just one incident, he has had occasions where multiple people warned him deaths would happen and Joe went ahead full steam. I'm sick and tired of the double standard we see so often from the media and the rest of the Democrat establishment.

 

[Desk trauma]

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of Joe Biden in going after Israel. The arrogance and gall of the man. Remember Joe had ISIS prisoners released days before and one of them was the suicide bomber. And Joe pulled out the military before getting all civilians out. Joe didn't have just one incident, he has had occasions where multiple people warned him deaths would happen and Joe went ahead full steam. I'm sick and tired of the double standard we see so often from the media and the rest of the Democrat establishment.

You’re tired of double standards yet are using one. They could have surrendered and let things happen after all.

 

[truthpls]

If the Taliban had just surrendered this wouldn’t have happened, they are responsible for the deaths.

….or does that standard only apply to Israel?

I suppose you could say that about any war in history. If Hitler has surrendered, millions would not have died...etc etc. Back in the real world, though, even raising such possibilities as a serious issue is not productive or serious.

 

[Valletta]

You’re tired of double standards yet are using one. They could have surrendered and let things happen after all.

Joe is the hypocrite, he is a fair weather politician who will choose any side to promote himself. And now that he is president a lot of people are suffering and dying because of this man.

 

[Desk trauma]

I suppose you could say that about any war in history. If Hitler has surrendered, millions would not have died...etc etc. Back in the real world, though, even raising such possibilities as a serious issue is not productive or serious.

It’s the standard being used here to justify any action on the part of the IDF.

 

[rjs330]

Do you miss this part?
”An Israeli security official told CNN that the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) was aware of several incidents of ‘abuse’ of Gazan workers by IDF soldiers.”

Did you miss the he part where I said it would be wrong to abuse people?

 

[Valletta]

It’s the standard being used here to justify any action on the part of the IDF.

Israel has been attacked in a horrendous and barbaric butchery of innocents, and no country in the world has or would meet the high standards of Israel in avoiding innocent casualties as has Israel. Can you imagine if a foreign power sent rockets into the United States, attacked on the ground and butchered babies and raped women and then kidnapped innocents and took them hostage? Do you believe it would be correct to demand U.S. soldiers just sit still while women hostages were still being raped and tortured, and that a cease fire be called for without the release of the hostages? If Hamas is not eliminated they will recruit massive numbers of new terrorists who will glorify Hamas as heroic leaders who defeated Israel and the United States.

 

[rjs330]

As I wrote in a prior thread:

"To destroy Hamas, Isreal is aiming to destroy the underground tunnel network that covers the entirety of Gaza. Given how extensive the network is and Hamas' propensity to locate their high value military targets near mosque, hospitals etc, Israel is faced with the challenge of how to destroy the tunnels while minimizing human life. It also appears Israel has no inention of sending it's troops into the tunnels given the high risk factor. In the case of the Jabaliya neighborhood, at least two 2,000-pound bombs were used in a densely populated area. The human toll from such a decion would be obvious to the Israeli government.

Israel state's it was targetting a high level Hamas commander as well as tunnel infrastrcure.

Is killing so many civilians justfified? I'm not convinced it is.

Once more, given the situation, we'll see many more Jabaliya like bombings in the days and weeks ahead. Thousands of civilians will die as a result."

The law of armed conflict says the incidental killing of and harm to civilians and damage to objects must not exceed the direct military advantage to be gained. The Geneva Conventions, the widely accepted basis for international humanitarian law and codes of warfare, were adopted in 1949 with the aim of preventing governments from inflicting the level of mass casualties of World War II.

While I understand Israel unwillingness to go into the tunnels I honestly don't see any other alternative. It appears that their bombs are not destroying them so it their goal to destroy Hamas will be less effective if Hamas or any other terrorist organization can use the tunnels. They have to destroy them imo.

 

[Desk trauma]

Israel has been attacked in a horrendous and barbaric butchery of innocents, and no country in the world has or would meet the high standards of Israel in avoiding innocent casualties as has Israel. Can you imagine if a foreign power sent rockets into the United States, attacked on the ground and butchered babies and raped women and then kidnapped innocents and took them hostage? Do you believe it would be correct to demand U.S. soldiers just sit still while women hostages were still being raped and tortured, and that a cease fire be called for without the release of the hostages? If Hamas is not eliminated they will recruit massive numbers of new terrorists who will glorify Hamas as heroic leaders who defeated Israel and the United States.

Yep, there it is.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Israel has been attacked in a horrendous and barbaric butchery of innocents...

'Justification' noted.

Do you believe it would be correct to demand U.S. soldiers just sit still while women hostages were still being raped and tortured, and that a cease fire be called for without the release of the hostages?

Sit still? No, I demand that they carry out their mission adhering to the laws of warfare and hope they refuse any illegal orders given to them.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Israeli military says it's preparing to shift from defense to offense on the border with Lebanon​

The IDF said commanders of regular and reserve units are now ready to be deployed "within just a few hours."

The statement was released in both English and Arabic, with the statement in Arabic using slightly different language. The English-language version does not carry the phrase "preparing to move from defence to attack" and instead highlights the Israeli military's "readiness for the transition from defense to offense."

 

[truthpls]

Israel has been attacked in a horrendous and barbaric butchery of innocents, and no country in the world has or would meet the high standards of Israel in avoiding innocent casualties as has Israel.

Triple tapping food aid folks is not a high standard. It is demonic terrorism

 

[Valletta]

Triple tapping food aid folks is not a high standard. It is demonic terrorism

Indeed, after Hamas stole the food they sold what they wouldn't use at exorbitant prices.

 

[truthpls]

Indeed, after Hamas stole the food they sold what they wouldn't use at exorbitant prices.

I don't believe your excuse to mow down aid workers

 

[Pommer]

Israeli military says it's preparing to shift from defense to offense on the border with Lebanon​

The IDF said commanders of regular and reserve units are now ready to be deployed "within just a few hours."

The statement was released in both English and Arabic, with the statement in Arabic using slightly different language. The English-language version does not carry the phrase "preparing to move from defence to attack" and instead highlights the Israeli military's "readiness for the transition from defense to offense."

Two-front wars are exceedingly tricksy.

 

[wing2000]

While I understand Israel unwillingness to go into the tunnels I honestly don't see any other alternative. It appears that their bombs are not destroying them so it their goal to destroy Hamas will be less effective if Hamas or any other terrorist organization can use the tunnels. They have to destroy them imo.

...and 6 months into the conflict, after Israel made this decision, we still don't know what progress the Israeli military has made in destroying the tunnel network. We do know the Israelis no longer have sufficient forces to take and hold territory as demonstrated by their need to return to the main hospital and root out hundreds of Hamas fighters last month (and in doing so, the hospital is completely non-functional). We also know that at least 30 thousands Palestinian lives have been lost, nearly 200 aid workers, etc. And thousands more face malnourshiment and starvation. It's hard for me to accept the military value gained (whatever that may be) is worth the human cost.

 

[rjs330]

...and 6 months into the conflict, after Israel made this decision, we still don't know what progress the Israeli military has made in destroying the tunnel network. We do know the Israelis no longer have sufficient forces to take and hold territory as demonstrated by their need to return to the main hospital and root out hundreds of Hamas fighters last month (and in doing so, the hospital is completely non-functional). We also know that at least 30 thousands Palestinian lives have been lost, nearly 200 aid workers, etc. And thousands more face malnourshiment and starvation. It's hard for me to accept the military value gained (whatever that may be) is worth the human cost.

Yes I certainly understand the human cost concerns. War is a very tragic thing. It's probably one of the worst undertakings humanity does and has done throughout history. Sometimes it is necessary. And there is a very great cost when it occurs in the death and destruction.

But if you start a war then you'd better be prepared for the other side to respond. And Israel responded. And if you go to war Israel better be prepared to do what takes to finish it. Including going into the tunnels. The hospital is evidence of this. As long as Hamas can move freely from place to place they will pop out of their little rat holes. Israel should have been prepared to go into those holes and blow them up, fliood them, fill the with cement or whatever. And their soldiers lives are certainly at risk to do so.

But at this point they don't seem willing to finish what Hamas started. That is a mistake. I would say at the point Hamas won't be ultimately defeated until the tunnels are taken and destroyed.

What was Hamas doing in the hospital. Oh yeah that's their thing. Once again we see how they use helpless humans as shields. One more piece of evidence that they do use hospitals.

 

[Valletta]

...and 6 months into the conflict, after Israel made this decision, we still don't know what progress the Israeli military has made in destroying the tunnel network. We do know the Israelis no longer have sufficient forces to take and hold territory as demonstrated by their need to return to the main hospital and root out hundreds of Hamas fighters last month (and in doing so, the hospital is completely non-functional). We also know that at least 30 thousands Palestinian lives have been lost, nearly 200 aid workers, etc. And thousands more face malnourshiment and starvation. It's hard for me to accept the military value gained (whatever that may be) is worth the human cost.

We don't know how many Palestinians are dead, the media has been irresponsible in spreading Hamas propaganda. The Israelis never had the forces to hold all of Gaza permanently, Israel is trying to free the hostages and eliminate Hamas. Unfortunately Joe Biden and others have undermined Israel's efforts and thus more lives will be lost.