Can you be Christian and believe in evolution?

[olgamc]

So Adam observed man? For he said a man will leave his parents, hmm interesting.

Umm. Adam is a mammal, is he not? I am so confused by you guys. LOL

 

[BeyondET]

Why wouldn't he know that men would have fathers? God tells him to be fruitful and multiply, so he knows he will be a father.

was it really just him or them??? God told to be fruitful and multiply.

 

[BeyondET]

Umm. Adam is a mammal, is he not? I am so confused by you guys. LOL

Did Adam say a mammal will leave or was Adam more direct in saying man?

 

[olgamc]

You think Job does but Genesis doesn't? The firmament separating the waters from the waters, with the waters above remaining above?

It would help if you could provide the verses from Job you are referring to. Genesis 1:6 "let there be an expanse" - rakia, from raqa. Raqa: to beat, stamp, beat out, spread out. So God separates the waters by making space between them. I am not sure why this is a problem?

You think the old testament has two different contexts between job and Genesis?

Of course! Job was written before Genesis, first of all. Second, Job and Genesis have an entirely different audience and purpose. Job tells a story of a guy. In Genesis Moses teaches the people their history. They've lived in Egypt for 400 years, and they need to be reminded of who God is and where they came from.

No offense but, I have to assume that maybe you just don't know that in ancient near east cosmologies of Egypt, Babylon, Mesopotamia, Assyria and more, they all described the waters above in their own cosmological perspectives.

They start out with a watery formless deep as well. They have the firmament and solid sky. The round circular earth etc.

Sure. But Genesis doesn't. Or at least I don't see it. Show me where does it say that earth is flat and sky is hard?

So what is it that you think separates Genesis from the rest of them?

It's a divine revelation given for the purpose of teaching us early history. The word Genesis means origin. It teaches us the origin of the universe, life, mankind, marriage, sin, and history of Israel from the beginning all the way to how they got to be in Egypt.

 

[olgamc]

was it really just him or them??? God told to be fruitful and multiply.

Them - Adam and Eve.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It sounds like your comfortable with your private opinion on everything. I'd just like to remind you that there are 7 billion other private opinions out there. They say ignorance is bliss and the Bible says that nobody is seeking the truth and all have turned to their own way.

Thank your for the compliments, Dan. Your sincerity won't go unnoticed.

But yes, I'm VERY, VERY comfortable with my viewpoint, especially since I usually take a cue from Isaac Newton who said,

“If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants.” ... for me, that's about 1,000 Giants!​

​

…another of my favorite quotes

This well-known quote of Isaac Newton’s is a favorite of mine — not only because of its reflection on Newton and the great scientists before him, but because I see it as the very essence of education…. Seeing further… “If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants.” – Sir...

www.science.edu

​

The Bible really hit the nail on the head, with that truth. The evidence is all around us, the world is super confused. Nobody has any foundation for what they believe, and everyone is running around trying to push their faith in themselves on other to make them feel validated. It's really quite pathetic.

I'll just take this to mean that you haven't read much other than the Bible. That's ok. Everyone has to start somewhere.

Mankind has never been more deluded than right now, nobody can back anything they claim to believe with any evidence. All we get is hog wash, everywhere we look. I'm still waiting to find some educated person to present some kind of plausible theory for the existence stuff. Nobody has ever invented of fabricated a theory that makes any sense at all, so my house is safe

I find some of your antics and empty rhetoric here on CF a bit disturbing for someone such as yourself who claims to be a fellow Christian.

I suggest you stop with all of the verbal cajoling of other Christians while you're behind. Better yet, maybe decide to simply be respectful of others and try to learn from them so they could either listen or possibly even learn from you instead of running them through with your mouth?????

 

[olgamc]

Did Adam say a mammal will leave or was Adam more direct in saying man?

What are you doing BeyondET? Adam knows he is a mammal. Adam knows where babies come from by either watching other mammals or by having a father-son conversation with God. Adam knows he is going to be a father. Adam knows his son and every son after him is going to be a man. Adam says "a man shall leave his father and mother". How does that imply that Adam must have had parents?

Can you guys please explain Romans verses in regards to Adam's grandma? I keep asking.

 

[Job 33:6]

I don't know man, I am really confused by this. What do you mean Adam's grandma was not subject to sin? Did she sin or did she not sin? Romans 3:23 says "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God", Romans 5:12 says "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned".

Paul isnt talking about people who lived before God came in relationship with mankind.

Paul is saying that, we all sin because Adam first sinned. That's all he's saying in 5:12. Death came to all people. This is in reference to the fall. But it's not speaking of pre-fall life as a whole.

And then in the very next verse, Romans 5:13
‭‭Romans 5:13 ESV‬‬
[13] for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.

So here Paul is pointing out that, sin was not counted where there was no law. He's talking about before the law was given. And so the sins of individuals such as Adams grandma, were not counted.

 

[olgamc]

Don't bother about Dan1988. In his own words, every generation since Adam is getting "more retarded". When was Darwin and when is Dan1988? What does that tell you about why, according to Dan1988, Darwin's theory insults his intelligence?

But Dan1988 has a point. Mathew 11:25 - At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

 

[Job 33:6]

Why wouldn't he know that men would have fathers? God tells him to be fruitful and multiply, so he knows he will be a father. He names his wife Eve because, as he says, she is to become the mother of all the living. I don't understand. He knows he is going to be a father and she is going to be a mother, and that all babies will have a mom and a dad, so he says "a man shall leave his father and mother". What's your point?

It's written that way because ancient isrealites already knew about mothers and fathers. It's not as though Adam, who never had a father, knew what such things even were. This is similar to God informing Adam that he would die if he ate of the tree, as if Adam would have any idea what God was talking about.

The text of course was written by Isrealites who knew what death was. Hence why God would say something like that without needing to explain it to Adam.

 

[olgamc]

Paul isnt talking about people who lived before God came in relationship with mankind.

Paul is saying that, we all sin because Adam first sinned. That's all he's saying in 5:12. Death came to all people. This is in reference to the fall. But it's not speaking of pre-fall life as a whole.

And then in the very next verse, Romans 5:13
‭‭Romans 5:13 ESV‬‬
[13] for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.

So here Paul is pointing out that, sin was not counted where there was no law. He's talking about before the law was given. And so the sins of individuals such as Adams grandma, were not counted.

So sin existed, but was not counted. So how then did sin enter the world if it was already in the world?

 

[BeyondET]

Them - Adam and Eve.

So It wasn't just him like in your post correct?

 

[BeyondET]

What are you doing BeyondET? Adam knows he is a mammal. Adam knows where babies come from by either watching other mammals or by having a father-son conversation with God. Adam knows he is going to be a father. Adam knows his son and every son after him is going to be a man. Adam says "a man shall leave his father and mother". How does that imply that Adam must have had parents?

Can you guys please explain Romans verses in regards to Adam's grandma? I keep asking.

What are you doing, you clearly know the verse is about humans not all mammals in general don't you?

How does it imply he didn't have parents?

Romans talks about the law, do you know the first law that was given to man?. Was everyone after based on it?.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Don't bother about Dan1988. In his own words, every generation since Adam is getting "more retarded". When was Darwin and when is Dan1988? What does that tell you about why, according to Dan1988, Darwin's theory insults his intelligence?

But Dan1988 has a point. Mathew 11:25 - At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

When we fully analyze the context of Matthew 11:25, the question there, olgmc, is: what are the "hidden things" that Jesus is referring to? I don't think He had scientific knowledge about the origins of the world or its life in mind when saying it. And Dan1988 needs to get a clue on how to do Biblical Exegesis.

 

[Job 33:6]

It would help if you could provide the verses from Job you are referring to. Genesis 1:6 "let there be an expanse" - rakia, from raqa. Raqa: to beat, stamp, beat out, spread out. So God separates the waters by making space between them. I am not sure why this is a problem?

Of course! Job was written before Genesis, first of all. Second, Job and Genesis have an entirely different audience and purpose. Job tells a story of a guy. In Genesis Moses teaches the people their history. They've lived in Egypt for 400 years, and they need to be reminded of who God is and where they came from.

Sure. But Genesis doesn't. Or at least I don't see it. Show me where does it say that earth is flat and sky is hard?

It's a divine revelation given for the purpose of teaching us early history. The word Genesis means origin. It teaches us the origin of the universe, life, mankind, marriage, sin, and history of Israel from the beginning all the way to how they got to be in Egypt.

Well, the waters above the raqia is a common ancient near east cosmological concept.

We see this here:
‭‭Genesis 1:6-7 NRSVUE‬‬
[6] And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” [7] So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.


The primordial landmass in the sea is another common concept. It's just referred to as the primordial mound in Egyptian texts. It can be seen here:

‭‭Genesis 1:9-10 NRSVUE‬‬
[9] And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. [10] God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

Stars embedded inside the solid expanse was common in Babylonian and Egyptian cosmology. It can be seen here:

‭‭Genesis 1:14 NRSVUE‬‬
[14] And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,

Birds do not fly inside the expanse, they fly in front of it because it has a solid roof:

‭‭Genesis 1:20 NRSVUE‬‬
[20] And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the dome of the sky.”

You can check the Hebrew on Genesis 1:20, it literally says that birds fly above the earth across the face of the dome of the heavens.


Babylonian and Egyptian texts also have kings made in their god's image and "let us make" is common in enuma Elish.

‭‭Genesis 1:26 NRSVUE‬‬
[26] Then God said, “Let us make humans in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over the cattle and over all the wild animals of the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”

Ancient near east temple texts also involve 7-day construction events and inaugurations. And pagan gods rest in their temples on the 7th day.

‭‭Genesis 2:3 NRSVUE‬‬
[3] So God blessed the seventh day and hallowed it, because on it God rested from all the work that he had done in creation.

So, this is all ancient near east context, through and through. From the very beginning.

And see here:

‭‭Genesis 7:11 NRSVUE‬‬
[11] In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

‭‭Genesis 8:2 NRSVUE‬‬
[2] the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,

Windows of heaven open and close to release and restrain the waters above.

Surely you can see this.

 

[olgamc]

It's written that way because ancient isrealites already knew about mothers and fathers. It's not as though Adam, who never had a father, knew what such things even were. This is similar to God informing Adam that he would die if he ate of the tree, as if Adam would have any idea what God was talking about.

The text of course was written by Isrealites who knew what death was. Hence why God would say something like that without needing to explain it to Adam.

When God was talking to Adam there was no Israelites. The text was not written by Israelites, the text was written by Moses who was inspired by God. Don't you believe that Genesis was inspired? I am so confused, you seem to contradict either yourself or scripture every step of the way.

So It wasn't just him like in your post correct?

Him is included in them. God said to them, Adam and Eve, be fruitful and multiply. That means that God told Adam to make babies, and God told Eve to make babies. I really don't know what you are trying to prove, BeyondET? Can you just state it please?

 

[Job 33:6]

So sin existed, but was not counted. So how then did sin enter the world if it was already in the world?

Because God came in relationship with humanity through Adam. And then mankind thereafter became accountable for sin. And Adam sinned, and therefore we all sinned.

When it says that sin entered the world, think of the world as humanity. Sin entered humanity through one man.

‭‭Romans 5:13 (adjusted for clarity)
[12] So then, just as sin entered the world (when people became accountable for their sins) through one man (Adam at the fall) and death through sin, and so death spread to all people (the broken relationship with God) because all sinned (we sin because Adam first sinned)– [13] for before the law was given, sin was in the world (people sinned), but there is no accounting for sin when there is no law (people were not yet accountable before Adams relationship with God).

If you read it like this, it's consistent.

 

[Job 33:6]

When God was talking to Adam there was no Israelites. The text was not written by Israelites, the text was written by Moses who was inspired by God. Don't you believe that Genesis was inspired? I am so confused, you seem to contradict either yourself or scripture every step of the way.

Who is Moses but an isrealites? You said the text was not written by Israelites and that it was written by Moses, but Moses of course is an Israelite.

 

[BeyondET]

Him is included in them. God said to them, Adam and Eve, be fruitful and multiply. That means that God told Adam to make babies, and God told Eve to make babies. I really don't know what you are trying to prove, BeyondET? Can you just state it please?

If that's what you believe then what was this all about below what you said in another post? Sounds a bit wishy-washy to me.

You said
Why wouldn't he know that men would have fathers? God tells him to be fruitful and multiply, so he knows he will be a father. He names his wife Eve because, as he says, she is to become the mother of all the living. I don't understand. He knows he is going to be a father and she is going to be a mother, and that all babies will have a mom and a dad, so he says "a man shall leave his father and mother". What's your point?

 

[Job 33:6]

When God was talking to Adam there was no Israelites. The text was not written by Israelites, the text was written by Moses who was inspired by God. Don't you believe that Genesis was inspired? I am so confused, you seem to contradict either yourself or scripture every step of the way.

Inspiration doesn't mean that Moses can't write something himself.

Moses knew about fathers and mothers and marriage.

Inspiration doesn't mean that the human author is completely bypassed.

The human author is still present, and speaks through his context. If Moses viewed the cosmos as having a solid sky, that's okay, that's going to come out in the text.

That doesn't mean that Moses isn't inspired, it just means that he lived a really long time ago and didn't know why this guy was blue aside from maybe that it was made of water. The waters above.

But Moses can still be inspired. Theologically Genesis stands in contrast with a lot of ancient texts. I mean the most obvious thing is that Yahwey is King, and not Ptah or Baal or Tiamat or anything like that.

Inspiration, I would say has nothing to do with science. It's about theology. Who is the true creator? Who is the real God? Who is really in control? Who is really our Savior?

These are theological questions, but someone doesn't have to know that the Earth is a sphere to present these ideas. Inspiration is theological, it's not scientific.