A Republican ideal, work until you die

[Hazelelponi]

I’m going to work as long as I am able

Everyone does that.

People who worked their life in office type jobs, lawyers and such, can often work into their 80's and enjoy doing such before retiring.

But I am against raising or doing away with the social security retirement age because doing so disproportionately affects the working class, who's bodies are still breaking down by 60 in many cases.

My husband was born in '61 so he's not very old but he actually needed to be able to get on social security earlier than he was able to qualify according to age because he's got arthritis so bad now.

Disability is a very lengthy, lengthy process that's quite difficult for most people to get on. It takes something major to occur for disability to be easy to get. So while getting on disability is an option for some who need it, it's not exactly practical for getting through a year or two until you qualify for social security if your body just can't physically do the work anymore.

Every time you raise the age I think you have to consider how many former military men, how many construction workers, how many mechanics and welders and electrical journeyman are able to physically work to a certain age.

I actually did think a lot of Paul Ryan's (wasn't it Paul Ryan's plan?) plan to phase out social security the way we are doing it and phasing in savings plans for kids that they could begin when they start working...

We do need to revamp social security the way we are doing it. But we can start something new and phase out the old at the same time so that no one is adversely affected.

I never understood why more people weren't behind that. I really liked it even though he was establishment. A good idea is a good idea.

 

[rjs330]

40k/yr isn't "pretty good" for anything.

That's middle income wages.

Who's saying that?

You did in a round about way by stating how difficult

How old are you and when was the last time you had to find a new job in a new city? Because every time you talk about anything workforce-related, it just screams "out of touch old man."

it was. What should it be? On a scale of 1-10 how easy should it be in your opinion. 10 bring very easy And 1 being very difficult.

Secondly, do you think it was easy for me? Everything you say screams we used to have it so easy in the olden days, while the young people today have it SO hard. Meanwhile you have no idea about what it was like.

Secondly I have kids who have to find jobs, so I know what it's like today. It's not any more difficult than it was all those eons ago.

have a "cool" job that I like, that treats me well, that pays fairly well, and my coworkers are legitimate friends.

See it can be done. I too packed up and moved to a place with no job. I have friends who did the same thing, looking for better opportunities. I've worked jobs where I had to fish to get my dinner. Ate Mac and cheese. Wandered around town knocking on every businesses door looking for a job.

While my situation worked out for me, it isn't scalable. There are a lot of people who sat next to me in class, or who worked along side me at jobs, for whom it didn't work out. The journey you describe - the one I followed - is not reasonable to expect of most people.

Sure it is. It's perfectly reasonable, depending on the person. Some might get there quicker, others might take a while. Not everyone is the same. Some seek it out others do not. We humans are A funny bunch. Some have great drive while others are satisfied with status quo. Some refuse to quite while others throw up their hands and say it can't be done or it's too difficult. Some have more talent than others. Some are quicker to recognize theirs. Some just stumble into it. Some are willing to take chances, others are not.

I know this guy who for years worked a painting job. Made pretty good money too. But he decided to branch out in his own and be is own boss. He took it slow before quitting. But once he was ready he did it. And now he makes in three months what it took him all year to do before. And since he's pretty much a one man show, there's no employees to pay. No overhead etc. Sometimes it's a little slow, but he's earned how to budget his money and gain new contracts. He's doing very well for himself. He makes more than I do and he's 20+ years younger. He's got no schooling. Just a strong work ethic.

 

[rjs330]

You presume to know what her situation was when she had those kids.

What was it then?

 

[rjs330]

Well when hamburgers cost $30 they’ll go out of business and those who got a living wage will suddenly have no wages

It's already happened in Seattle.

 

[Larniavc]

It's difficult for me to imagine restaurant owners as being very greedy.

Why?

 

[Larniavc]

Start early in your career, put money away even when it's just a small amount. As you get older you'll make more money and have more opportunities out there. When I leav my current job I'm going to do something else part time. I'm not going to sit around and twiddle my thumbs like my grandfather used to do.

That’s to totally not how the world works. How will a person doing a 7.15 job get more opportunities just because they are older?

You don’t get types of jobs based on how old you are.

 

[iluvatar5150]

That's middle income wages.

No, it isn’t. The median wage for full-time workers is about $60k.

Median weekly earnings of full-time workers were $1,145 in the fourth quarter of 2023

Median weekly earnings were highest for men and women ages 35 to 64, and lowest for men and women ages 16 to 24.

www.bls.gov

Secondly, do you think it was easy for me?

No, I don’t. But I think you’re blinded by survivorship bias.

 

[BCP1928]

That's middle income wages.

You did in a round about way by stating how difficult


it was. What should it be? On a scale of 1-10 how easy should it be in your opinion. 10 bring very easy And 1 being very difficult.

Secondly, do you think it was easy for me? Everything you say screams we used to have it so easy in the olden days, while the young people today have it SO hard. Meanwhile you have no idea about what it was like.

Secondly I have kids who have to find jobs, so I know what it's like today. It's not any more difficult than it was all those eons ago.

See it can be done. I too packed up and moved to a place with no job. I have friends who did the same thing, looking for better opportunities. I've worked jobs where I had to fish to get my dinner. Ate Mac and cheese. Wandered around town knocking on every businesses door looking for a job.

Sure it is. It's perfectly reasonable, depending on the person. Some might get there quicker, others might take a while. Not everyone is the same. Some seek it out others do not. We humans are A funny bunch. Some have great drive while others are satisfied with status quo. Some refuse to quite while others throw up their hands and say it can't be done or it's too difficult. Some have more talent than others. Some are quicker to recognize theirs. Some just stumble into it. Some are willing to take chances, others are not.

I know this guy who for years worked a painting job. Made pretty good money too. But he decided to branch out in his own and be is own boss. He took it slow before quitting. But once he was ready he did it. And now he makes in three months what it took him all year to do before. And since he's pretty much a one man show, there's no employees to pay. No overhead etc. Sometimes it's a little slow, but he's earned how to budget his money and gain new contracts. He's doing very well for himself. He makes more than I do and he's 20+ years younger. He's got no schooling. Just a strong work ethic.

OK, you win. If people are poor it's their own fault. If they're not getting paid enough to live on they should just work harder. Etc.

But what about the Social Security retirement age?

 

[BPPLEE]

They're high (roughly double the rate of neighboring counties), but I'd argue that yours are absurdly low. $435 on a $121k house? Come on. That doesn't pay for anything.

Either way, your state gets you some other way. MD's effective tax burden is 11.3% while AL's is 9.8%. Your income tax rate is slightly higher (5% vs 4.75% for income between $3k and $100k) and your sales tax rate is much higher (avg 9.2% vs 6% in MD). I wouldn't be surprised if the gap in those effective tax burdens was shrunk a little bit come tax season, since it's generally easier to document and deduct property taxes than it is run-of-the-mill sales tax.

I don’t think that compensates for the high property taxes that you pay. I will take mine over yours any day

 

[BPPLEE]

No, it isn’t. The median wage for full-time workers is about $60k.

Median weekly earnings of full-time workers were $1,145 in the fourth quarter of 2023

Median weekly earnings were highest for men and women ages 35 to 64, and lowest for men and women ages 16 to 24.

www.bls.gov

No, I don’t. But I think you’re blinded by survivorship bias.

I got a job in another city 16 months ago. I was convinced that I would have to take a significant cut in pay and that not having to commute would help somewhat.
I had 3 interviews in one day and was offered all 3 jobs. I ended up getting a $1.00 an hour raise and I have gotten another $1.00 an hour raise since then. I’m no longer on salary (my salary was based on an hourly wage) so I only work 40 hours a week and I no longer have to commute 2 and 1/2 hours a day.to and from work, which saves a considerable amount on gas. I live 10 miles away from work now. The only additional expense I picked up is having to provide my own cell phone now, but the raises and savings on gas far exceed that expense. It’s also a much more professional environment. I was head of security at my last job and I am just a security officer at this one but I have been promoted to supervisor. It’s a much larger facility.

 

[BPPLEE]

OK, you win. If people are poor it's their own fault. If they're not getting paid enough to live on they should just work harder. Etc.

But what about the Social Security retirement age?

Social Security is not going to be enough. I have 16 years in the state retirement system, 14 years in a 401k and I hope to have another 10 years in my current 401k and I plan on working as long as I can because I don’t know if those plus SS are going to be enough.

 

[rambot]

I’m sure that you support her right to have that option so it seems disingenuous for you to imply that it’would have been a bad thing

You'll note that was a question.

That question was directed at you and not a statement about me. I know you don't like abortion hence the tone.

 

[BCP1928]

Social Security is not going to be enough. I have 16 years in the state retirement system, 14 years in a 401k and I hope to have another 10 years in my current 401k and I plan on working as long as I can because I don’t know if those plus SS are going to be enough.

My wife and I both took early SS and it's enough for a modest but not uncomfortable lifestyle where we live.

 

[rambot]

OK, you win. If people are poor it's their own fault. If they're not getting paid enough to live on they should just work harder.

If only young people today knew how hard it was for the old people right now who have never ever complained about how hard it was and who are distracted from the struggles of many others.

I mean sure rent, food, bills, were more affordable; Sure the middle classes had far more purchasing power and sure their incomes were a larger portion of the gdp than now.

Sure the cost of university has ballooned by 710% since the early 80s after boomers insisted the only way to succeed was post secondary education. Good thing boomers have all the wisdom of a life experience that was lived 40 years ago. So surely it is still relevant to today.

Sure right to work states have weakened wages compared to states without that legislation.

But it's cause young people don't want to work hard. Forget facts

 

[NxNW]

Ahh yes. IF only everyone just too responsibility for themselves.

The servers making 7.25 plus tips OBVIOUSLY can afford to sock away a useful amount of cash.

Either they can work their way into a better-paying career, or if not, they can work their way into better-paying restaurants. Servers at higher-end restaurants make good money, especially if they can talk about how beverages pair up, etc.

Right now, 78% of Americans are living paycheque to paycheque.

Americans don't have paycheques; we have paychecks. The rule is to have a few months of cash set aside for emergencies. If you can't scrape that together, turn off Netflix and quit eating out until you can.

The idea of "saving money for retirement" is ALMOST a uniquely "boomer" capacity. Almost nobody has the financial means to do so.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Boomers were more about pensions, anyway. Most full-time jobs have a 401k or 403b, and if not you can open an IRA. A hundred dollars a month invested from age 20 to 65 adds up to a million dollars. There's your fifty bucks a check.

 

[BCP1928]

Either they can work their way into a better-paying career, or if not, they can work their way into better-paying restaurants. Servers at higher-end restaurants make good money, especially if they can talk about how beverages pair up, etc.

Americans don't have paycheques; we have paychecks. The rule is to have a few months of cash set aside for emergencies. If you can't scrape that together, turn off Netflix and quit eating out until you can.

Why should they? Workers deserve more than mere subsistence no matter what they do for a living.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Boomers were more about pensions, anyway. Most full-time jobs have a 401k or 403b, and if not you can open an IRA. A hundred dollars a month invested from age 20 to 65 adds up to a million dollars. There's your fifty bucks a check.

Right. If people are poor it's only because they are lazy and improvident.

 

[NxNW]

Why should they? Workers deserve more than mere subsistence no matter what they do for a living.

Temporarily turning off Netflix and eating at home is 'mere subsistence'? Getting a roommate is somehow an unreasonable expectation if you can't afford to live alone?

Right. If people are poor it's only because they are lazy and improvident.

In the US, I'd bet 90% of 'poverty' is self-inflicted. And if you have a cell phone, a roof over your head, electricity, plumbing, you're not truly poor. Visit a third world country if you want to see true poverty. I've seen waaay too many people who are too lazy to get out of bed, and when they do get some money, they blow it on drugs/booze/fast food, and when rent's due, they complain about The System. The other 10% I'm happy to help.

 

[BPPLEE]

Why should they? Workers deserve more than mere subsistence no matter what they do for a living.

Right. If people are poor it's only because they are lazy and improvident.

Many people are victims of parents who didn’t properly raise them or the absence of a parent, a school system that didn’t prepare them to succeed in the workplace and no one teaching them how to be responsible or set goals.
I didn’t have anyone explain to me how to pick a career path and set goals. I had no idea what I wanted to do or how to work towards a career path. I spent 10 years going from surveying to cutting meat to route sales with no direction. It was my part time work as a Security contractor that led me to law enforcement. That’s what I was good at. After 16 years I went for higher pay in private security and have done that the last 15 years.
I agree some people have just been ill prepared for how to earn a living, and get stuck at low paying jobs or on government assistance. No one has taught them how to get and keep a job .
I had an informant that was a genius at manipulating the drug market. He had no drugs of his own but he knew people who wanted drugs and people who had drugs and he was the middle man and was doing quite well on the “commission “ he made from brokering drug deals. I tried to show him how he could get a legitimate job with his skills and make a good living. His answer? He got SSI disability because he had “mental problems“ (they call it a crazy check) and he would lose that if he took a job. In fact I found quite a few people who supplemented their government assistance by selling drugs.

 

[BPPLEE]

Temporarily turning off Netflix and eating at home is 'mere subsistence'? Getting a roommate is somehow an unreasonable expectation if you can't afford to live alone?

In the US, I'd bet 90% of 'poverty' is self-inflicted. And if you have a cell phone, a roof over your head, electricity, plumbing, you're not truly poor. Visit a third world country if you want to see true poverty. I've seen waaay too many people who are too lazy to get out of bed, and when they do get some money, they blow it on drugs/booze/fast food, and when rent's due, they complain about The System. The other 10% I'm happy to help.

@NxNW I must have you confused with someone else. I’m agreeing with everything you post here, that’s not usually the case

 

[NxNW]

@NxNW I must have you confused with someone else. I’m agreeing with everything you post here, that’s not usually the case

I've been agreeing with Aldebaran, which was scaring me a bit.