Biblical command to 'turn the other cheek' doesn't mean Christians should 'tolerate tyranny'

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Aldebaran]

PLEASE STAY ON THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD, AND OFF OF ATTACKING ONE ANOTHER​

 

[DaisyDay]

Are you suggesting that in worse case scenarios, I should not defend my family and loved ones, or my community or my nation from violent attacks?

I just don't see where Christ said anything about defending your family and loved ones with violence and killing. He went so far as to say that we should love our enemies and that it is no credit to love your family as even the worst people manage that. If you love your enemies, then killing them, blowing their legs off with mines, starving them, depriving them of basic sanitation just seems contrary to his Gospel. If you could point out the passage where Jesus said that genocide was fine, I'd appreciate that.

 

[rambot]

I think the HARDEST part of following God is the massively difficult task of loving absolutely everyone.
Everyone.
rapists.
people trying to hurt us
murderers
the person who kills our child (if you are so unfortunate)
politicians we despites.

Jesus fulfilled the law and closed the book on the idea of "eye for an eye". In fact, Jesus also doesn't talk about self defence. Despite what reverend kirk cameron said (why would we even listen to this guy?)

Radical loving is what we're called.

This argument is really about trying to insert your own values into Jesus' teachings. I could not, FOR THE LIFE OF ME, imagine my pastor having to clarify this. This exegenesis is the BULLY fighting back to justify their bullying.

It's amazing to me that the Trump effect from the npr article I've shared several times is now being seen as a legitimate re-imagining of Jesus' radical message of love.

"But turn the other cheek doeant work anymore".

That was the quote from the plain spoken parishioners and church goers. Of course big Kirk knows you can't say that because that implies God's word is no longer valid/perfect.
So instead big Kirk says "oh man! We've been misunderstanding this central tent of the Christian faith for 2000 years". It's clever but also manipulative and has no biblical basis.

 

[NotreDame]

Kirk Cameron: Biblical command to 'turn the other cheek' doesn't mean Christians should 'tolerate tyranny'

Kirk Cameron has some thoughts on what it really means to turn the other cheek

www.christianpost.com

Kirk Cameron has some thoughts on what it really means to "turn the other cheek."
The actor said intolerance, at least when it comes to evil and tyranny, is, in fact, a “very essential Christian virtue,” one which, he added, America’s founding fathers espoused.

In a Feb. 21 appearance on the “Timcast IRL” podcast with Tim Pool, Cameron touched upon a number of topics, including his fight against “religious viewpoint discrimination” in public libraries and Noah Webster’s Christian influence on education.
But it was in response to Pool’s apparent reference to a Christian Post story earlier this month about his comments on conservative Christians playing a role in America's decline by being “tolerant and accepting” that led to a lively conversation between Pool and Cameron.

Crediting a 2023 speech by entrepreneur Patrick Bet David for his comments, Pool summarized David's speech as essentially saying, “Christians in this country are good people who keep saying OK to these people, being tolerant, allowing them to live the way they want to live.
"But what happens is they push more into the institutions, they introduce dangerous, bad ideas, they start targeting kids, and now we're here where we are today."

Cameron responded by saying “turn the other cheek” and “love your neighbor” were never intended to allow for the tolerance of evil.

“… I see so many who are just tolerating evil and that’s not loving your neighbor,” he said. “At the end of the day, the two great Commandments of Christianity are to love God with all of your heart, mind, soul and strength, and the second is like it, to love your neighbor as yourself.

“If you 'tolerate' the kinds of things that bring misery to your neighbors and ultimately strip them of their liberties, you're not loving them.”
As an example, he cited Just War Theory, followed by most Christians for over a thousand years, which states that if you believe your enemy is preparing to attack, you are justified in defending your own people by attacking first.

Cameron said the Constitution is another means of mitigating against overreach by tyrants.
“We don't tolerate tyranny, either from the outside or the inside, and that is a very essential Christian virtue, is to not tolerate that type of thing,” he added.

How do you account for, or explain, the NT books are conspicuously devoid of Christians and the church denouncing governmental tyranny, whether by civil disobedience, public denouncements, protests, etcetera? (For now I’m not including tyranny that implicates Biblical commands, principles, etc.)

How do you account for Paul and Peter’s admonition to submit to government authority and to do so without carving out an exception for “tyranny”? (For now I’m not including tyranny that implicates Biblical commands, principles, etc.)

“Every [a]person is to be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except [b]from God, and those which exist are established by God.2 Therefore [c]whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.” Romans 13.

“13Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to everyhuman institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, 14or to governors as sent [q]by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right. 15For [r]such is the will of God, that by doing right you silence the ignoranceof foolish people.” 1 Peter 2.

Indeed, the prophet Daniel prospered by his submission to tyranny while in Babylon (again where and when he wasn’t asked or demanded to violate God’s law) and God mandated the Judah exiles submit to Babylon, its ruler and people. “Put your necks under the yoke of the king of Babylon; serve him and his people, and live!'” Jeremiah 27.

So, these verses do state Christians are to endure some tyranny.

 

[Joseph G]

Why did Jesus tell the disciples to carry a sword? Why did Paul use the soldier's attire as the metaphor for arming for spiritual battle? I dunno.. jus' saying...

 

[BCP1928]

Are you suggesting that in worse case scenarios, I should not defend my family and loved ones, or my community or my nation from violent attacks?

Depends on the circumstances, I guess, but dwelling on fantasies about it may not be spiritually healthy for a Christian.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Kirk Cameron: Biblical command to 'turn the other cheek' doesn't mean Christians should 'tolerate tyranny'

Kirk Cameron has some thoughts on what it really means to turn the other cheek

www.christianpost.com

Kirk Cameron has some thoughts on what it really means to "turn the other cheek."
The actor said intolerance, at least when it comes to evil and tyranny, is, in fact, a “very essential Christian virtue,” one which, he added, America’s founding fathers espoused.

In a Feb. 21 appearance on the “Timcast IRL” podcast with Tim Pool, Cameron touched upon a number of topics, including his fight against “religious viewpoint discrimination” in public libraries and Noah Webster’s Christian influence on education.
But it was in response to Pool’s apparent reference to a Christian Post story earlier this month about his comments on conservative Christians playing a role in America's decline by being “tolerant and accepting” that led to a lively conversation between Pool and Cameron.

Crediting a 2023 speech by entrepreneur Patrick Bet David for his comments, Pool summarized David's speech as essentially saying, “Christians in this country are good people who keep saying OK to these people, being tolerant, allowing them to live the way they want to live.
"But what happens is they push more into the institutions, they introduce dangerous, bad ideas, they start targeting kids, and now we're here where we are today."

Cameron responded by saying “turn the other cheek” and “love your neighbor” were never intended to allow for the tolerance of evil.

“… I see so many who are just tolerating evil and that’s not loving your neighbor,” he said. “At the end of the day, the two great Commandments of Christianity are to love God with all of your heart, mind, soul and strength, and the second is like it, to love your neighbor as yourself.

“If you 'tolerate' the kinds of things that bring misery to your neighbors and ultimately strip them of their liberties, you're not loving them.”
As an example, he cited Just War Theory, followed by most Christians for over a thousand years, which states that if you believe your enemy is preparing to attack, you are justified in defending your own people by attacking first.

Cameron said the Constitution is another means of mitigating against overreach by tyrants.
“We don't tolerate tyranny, either from the outside or the inside, and that is a very essential Christian virtue, is to not tolerate that type of thing,” he added.

As they say, "When in Rome ....................................................................... "

And if my GPS is leading me correctly, we're almost there.

 

[NxNW]

Kirk Cameron is well educated and has promoted Christian values for decades.

Does that include making up false claims about evolution producing a croco-duck?

 

[Vambram]

Does that include making up false claims about evolution producing a croco-duck?

you amuse me

 

[NxNW]

you amuse me

You didn't answer the question.

 

[Vambram]

You didn't answer the question.

Can you prove that he said what you claim, while also prove that he was actually being serious if and when he said it?

 

[Adam56]

I am very clearly asking for where Christ taught that Christians (?) are allowed to defend themselves and their loved ones with violence. I seem to recall that blessed are those who lose their lives in His name.

Jesus instructed his followers to buy a sword in Luke 22:36

A Biblical Perspective on Self-Defense and the Use of Lethal Force (and a lesson in interpretation)

We live in a curious age where we see but we do not see, where we try and find an exception to a rule where there is no exception. We live in an age where all too often good people seem to be in search of wiggle room where there is none.

www.linkedin.com

 

[NxNW]

Can you prove that he said what you claim, while also prove that he was actually being serious if and when he said it?

Everybody has seen this video. Kirk's friend also claims that the shape of the banana proves that it was divinely-designed. They're both serious, but they have no clue.

 

[durangodawood]

Everybody has seen this video. Kirk's friend also claims that the shape of the banana proves that it was divinely-designed. They're both serious, but they have no clue.

The "bull - frog"? Are they serious?

 

[NxNW]

The "bull - frog"? Are they serious?

Watch a few videos of these two. They're not joking.

 

[DaisyDay]

Jesus instructed his followers to buy a sword in Luke 22:36

A Biblical Perspective on Self-Defense and the Use of Lethal Force (and a lesson in interpretation)

We live in a curious age where we see but we do not see, where we try and find an exception to a rule where there is no exception. We live in an age where all too often good people seem to be in search of wiggle room where there is none.

www.linkedin.com

What does He say to do with the sword? He does not say to use the sword to defend Him or themselves. He doesn’t say to kill anyone in self-defense or in defense of loved ones.

 

[Adam56]

What does He say to do with the sword? He does not say to use the sword to defend Him or themselves. He doesn’t say to kill anyone in self-defense or in defense of loved ones.

The Bible does say that though. Jesus never contradicts that. So from a holistic biblical perspective it means Jesus is not against self defense.

 

[Joseph G]

What does He say to do with the sword? He does not say to use the sword to defend Him or themselves. He doesn’t say to kill anyone in self-defense or in defense of loved ones.

What are they gonna use the sword for, to chop onions? *wink*

 

[DaisyDay]

The Bible does say that though.

Does say what? He does not say to use the sword to defend Him or themselves. He doesn’t say to kill anyone in self-defense or in defense of loved ones.

Jesus never contradicts that. So from a holistic biblical perspective it means Jesus is not against self defense.

Except, maybe, when He says to turn the other cheek and that whoever seeks to save his life shall lose it.

What are they gonna use the sword for, to chop onions? *wink*

Dunno. Doesn't say. Two swords divided among them all doesn't amount to much, How are they actually used?