The path of Righteousness

[Veni]

An animal cannot choose the path of celibacy or refrain from eating (fasting). Only a man can choose this path.

When we refrain from eating or choose the path of celibacy, our soul is in control of our flesh. Is this proof a man has a soul?

Is it safe to say,
Fasting & the path of Celibacy will destroy all sin.

Do we see this in the Gospel?

 

[d taylor]

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Jesus took away the sin of the world

 

[Riot42]

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Jesus took away the sin of the world

Jesus paid the price of sin for all who believe in him so we will not be punished for our sins with 2nd death however sin is still very much in the world and you and I are still sinners saved only by his grace.

Romans 3:11 None is righteous, no, not one. - Paul, a sinner saved only by grace.

 

[d taylor]

Jesus paid the price of sin for all who believe in him so we will not be punished for our sins with 2nd death however sin is still very much in the world and you and I are still sinners saved only by his grace.

Romans 3:11 None is righteous, no, not one. - Paul, a sinner saved only by grace.

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No that is not what The Bible states. Jesus took away all sin, believers and unbelievers all sin is just that all sin.

 

[Riot42]

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No that is not what The Bible states. Jesus took away all sin, believers and unbelievers all sin is just that all sin.

I literally quoted the bible, you did not. Your belief contradicts everything Paul wrote about sin which was after the cross. Paul called himself a sinner for persecuting Christians, how is that possible if there is no sin? Back your position up with scripture as I have.

Here is another verse that runs completely counter to your point.

1 John 8-10

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

So is the truth in you, or are you making Christ a liar as 1 John 8-10 very clearly states?

 

[d taylor]

I literally quoted the bible, you did not. Your belief contradicts everything Paul wrote about sin which was after the cross. Paul called himself a sinner for persecuting Christians, how is that possible if there is no sin? Back your position up with scripture as I have.

Here is another verse that runs completely counter to your point.

1 John 8-10

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

So is the truth in you, or are you making Christ a liar as 1 John 8-10 very clearly states?

You want Bible verses.

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

 

[Riot42]

You want Bible verses.

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

"The sin of the world"

John said "sin", singular, not the plural "sins". The sin of the world is Adam's original sin. The verse does not say "all sin" as you previously claimed.

"My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. "

So that you may not sin does not mean that sin does not exist, it means that you should try to avoid it.

"and if anyone sins we have an advocate with the father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

In your own quote you are proven wrong. How can someone sin if sin no longer exists in the world? Why do we need Jesus to be an advocate for us if he already removed sin from the world?

Christ offers forgiveness for all sins, but that doesn't mean we have not committed them. You are confusing the act with the punishment. You think because you are free from the punishment of sin that a sin is not a sin? So you believe you are free to fornicate, murder, lie because there is no punishment in the afterlife?

If I tell my kid I wont ground him for running in the house does that mean then that it is no longer against the rules to run in the house? Certainly not! He will still be chastised.

How do you explain the verses I quoted you that you conveniently ignored? You also didnt answer my question, are you without sin? If so, how do you reconcile 1 John 8-10 without calling Christ a Liar?

Why does Christ call us to repent if there is no sin to repent from?

If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. How do you reconcile that?

 

[d taylor]

"The sin of the world"

John said "sin", singular, not the plural "sins". The sin of the world is Adam's original sin. The verse does not say "all sin" as you previously claimed.

"My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. "

So that you may not sin does not mean that sin does not exist, it means that you should try to avoid it.

"and if anyone sins we have an advocate with the father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

In your own quote you are proven wrong. How can someone sin if sin no longer exists in the world? Why do we need Jesus to be an advocate for us if he already removed sin from the world?

Christ offers forgiveness for all sins, but that doesn't mean we have not committed them. You are confusing the act with the punishment. You think because you are free from the punishment of sin that a sin is not a sin? So you believe you are free to fornicate, murder, lie because there is no punishment in the afterlife?

If I tell my kid I wont ground him for running in the house does that mean then that it is no longer against the rules to run in the house? Certainly not! He will still be chastised.

How do you explain the verses I quoted you that you conveniently ignored? You also didnt answer my question, are you without sin? If so, how do you reconcile 1 John 8-10 without calling Christ a Liar?

Why does Christ call us to repent if there is no sin to repent from?

If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. How do you reconcile that?

You were the one who stated Jesus only paid the sin price for all who will believe in Him. And i showed you, you were wrong in this thinking. Jesus took away every person's sin, believer and unbeliever.

An unbeliever will not experience the second death because of sins they have committed. The Bible plainly states the unbeliever is sent to the lake of fire because (of one reason) their name was not found to be in the book of life. Why because the unbeliever never believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life. Sin is never brought up at the great white throne judgment.

For a believer if they sin, that gets them out of fellowship with God their Father. But God will forgive the believer and again have fellowship with the believer, if they ask for forgiveness.

 

[Riot42]

You were the one who stated Jesus only paid the sin price for all who will believe in Him.

Actually John said this in the cornerstone scripture of our faith.

"John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John didn't say all humans would not perish, John said whosever believes in him should not perish.

Ephesians 2 8:9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so no one may boast

Universalism is unscriptural. Nowhere does the bible say all humans are saved, faith in Christ is required for grace.

And i showed you, you were wrong in this thinking. Jesus took away every person's sin, believer and unbeliever.

You havent shown me anything, I proved you wrong on all accounts and you continue to ignore multiple scriptures I have posted. Break them down as I have done for you if you still think im wrong.

An unbeliever will not experience the second death because of sins they have committed. The Bible plainly states the unbeliever is sent to the lake of fire because (of one reason) their name was not found to be in the book of life. Why because the unbeliever never believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life. Sin is never brought up at the great white throne judgment.\

Revelation 20:14 places 2nd death in the lake of fire.

"Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death"

In Revelation 21:8 we read: "As for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, the murderers, the fornicators, the sorcerers, the idolaters, and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

The only way scripture makes sense is if sins place unsaved humans in the lake of fire and they experience 2nd death.

For a believer if they sin, that gets them out of fellowship with God their Father. But God will forgive the believer and again have fellowship with the believer, if they ask for forgiveness.

I agree with you on those of us that have faith and I never said otherwise.

 

[d taylor]

Actually John said this in the cornerstone scripture of our faith.

"John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John didn't say all humans would not perish, John said whosever believes in him should not perish.

Ephesians 2 8:9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so no one may boast

Universalism is unscriptural. Nowhere does the bible say all humans are saved, faith in Christ is required for grace.



You havent shown me anything, I proved you wrong on all accounts and you continue to ignore multiple scriptures I have posted. Break them down as I have done for you if you still think im wrong.

Revelation 20:14 places 2nd death in the lake of fire.

"Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death"

In Revelation 21:8 we read: "As for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, the murderers, the fornicators, the sorcerers, the idolaters, and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

The only way scripture makes sense is if sins place unsaved humans in the lake of fire and they experience 2nd death.



I agree with you on those of us that have faith and I never said otherwise.

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You should read the verse you post John 3:16 is about receiving Eternal Life, nothing is said about sin. So not sure why you quote John 3:16 to a commit i made about a statement you said. About Jesus only taking away the sin of those who believe in Him.

I post three verses that stated Jesus took away the sin of the world, believers and unbelievers.

Also not sure why you are bringing up universalism to the discussion, not one time, have i stated any universalism doctrine.

 

[Riot42]

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You should read the verse you post John 3:16 is about receiving Eternal Life, nothing is said about sin. So not sure why you quote John 3:16 to a commit i made about a statement you said. About Jesus only taking away the sin of those who believe in Him.

Because it says those that believe in him achieve everlasting life, not the unbelievers. Furthermore it doesnt say "take away sins" in any way. Again you confuse the act of commiting a sin with forgiveness of sin. I am a sinner, i am saved only by his grace and forgiveness, because of his forgiveness I will not be placed in the lake of fire.

If someone does not have faith in him they do not have his forgiveness and they are cast into the lake of fire as punishment for their sins. This is the entire point im trying to get you to understand and you are ignoring the verses i have supplied to you to believe otherwise.

I post three verses that stated Jesus took away the sin of the world, believers and unbelievers.

Also not sure why you are bringing up universalism to the discussion, not one time, have i stated any universalism doctrine.

You believe all mankind is saved regarless of faith because all sin is gone do you not?

That is universalism.

Christian universalism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[d taylor]

Because it says those that believe in him achieve everlasting life, not the unbelievers. Furthermore it doesnt say "take away sins" in any way. Again you confuse the act of commiting a sin with forgiveness of sin. I am a sinner, i am saved only by his grace and forgiveness, because of his forgiveness I will not be placed in the lake of fire.

If someone does not have faith in him they do not have his forgiveness and they are cast into the lake of fire as punishment for their sins. This is the entire point im trying to get you to understand and you are ignoring the verses i have supplied to you to believe otherwise.


You believe all mankind is saved regarless of faith because all sin is gone do you not?

That is universalism.

Christian universalism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Show me where i said all mankind is saved. See this is what you are doing, you are adding in ideas that i have never said.

No you do not go to the lake of fire because of forgiveness of sins. You do not go to the lake of fire because, you have believed in Jesus.
The result of believing in Jesus is your name is placed in the book of life and that is why you do not go to the lake of fire. You seem to not understand why you do not go to the lake of fire.

 

[Riot42]

Show me where i said all mankind is saved. See this is what you are doing, you are adding in ideas that i have never said.

You said it right here.

"I post three verses that stated Jesus took away the sin of the world, believers and unbelievers."

If all sin has been taken away there is no reason for anyone to be thrown into the lake of fire as punishment for sin because there is no sin. There is nothing Christ needs to forgive in us because there is no sin to forgive he already took it away according to you. Or do you agree with my earlier response that the sin of the world is Adam's original sin and not all sin? You ignored that just as you have so many other things Ive said.

No you do not go to the lake of fire because of forgiveness of sins.

I didnt say that. I said you are forgiven and therefore do not go into the lake of fire. Non believers are not forgiven because they have unforgiven sin, contradiciting your entire argument that Jesus took away the sins of the world.

You do not go to the lake of fire because, you have believed in Jesus.

No you arent comprehending what I am saying.

The result of believing in Jesus is your name is placed in the book of life and that is why you do not go to the lake of fire. You seem to not understand why you do not go to the lake of fire.

Because we are forgiven of our sins. Those that are not forgiven (non believers) are cast into the lake of fire BECAUSE OF THEIR SINS.

I have asked you to respond to this bible verse 3 times now and you have thus been unable to do so, if you do not respond to it this time I will place you on ignore and end the conversation.

What does this verse mean to you if "Jesus took away the sin of the world"? Again, if you do not answer this question I will end this conversation.

1 John 1:8-10 ESV​

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[d taylor]

You said it right here.

"I post three verses that stated Jesus took away the sin of the world, believers and unbelievers."

If all sin has been taken away there is no reason for anyone to be thrown into the lake of fire as punishment for sin because there is no sin. There is nothing Christ needs to forgive in us because there is no sin to forgive he already took it away according to you. Or do you agree with my earlier response that the sin of the world is Adam's original sin and not all sin? You ignored that just as you have so many other things Ive said.




I didnt say that. I said you are forgiven and therefore do not go into the lake of fire. Non believers are not forgiven because they have unforgiven sin, contradiciting your entire argument that Jesus took away the sins of the world.

No you arent comprehending what I am saying.

Because we are forgiven of our sins. Those that are not forgiven (non believers) are cast into the lake of fire BECAUSE OF THEIR SINS.

I have asked you to respond to this bible verse 3 times now and you have thus been unable to do so, if you do not respond to it this time I will place you on ignore and end the conversation.

What does this verse mean to you if "Jesus took away the sin of the world"? Again, if you do not answer this question I will end this conversation.

1 John 1:8-10 ESV​

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

I have responded to this verse, you just can not understand what i am saying because you simply do not understand. Because you are reading into post i make with what you want to believe.

I stated once before for believers, which this verse is being addressed to. Is that believers when they confess their sins they again are forgiven and again restore their relationship with God their father. This verse has noting do do with unbelievers at all.

 

[Riot42]

I have responded to this verse, you just can not understand what i am saying because you simply do not understand. Because you are reading into post i make with what you want to believe.

I stated once before for believers, which this verse is being addressed to. Is that believers when they confess their sins they again are forgiven and again restore their relationship with God their father. This verse has noting do do with unbelievers at all.

What does your statement "Jesus took away the sin of the world, believers and unbelievers." mean then?

 

[d taylor]

What does your statement "Jesus took away the sin of the world, believers and unbelievers." mean then?

Exactly what The Bible states it means, all people (believers and unbelievers) have had their sin paid for by Jesus at the cross.

No one goes to the lake of fire because of their sin. The person who ends up in the lake of fire, is there because of only one reason. And the one reason is, they never believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life (The Life of God), it has nothing to do with them being a sinner.

So their name is never entered into the book of life. Read Revelation 20 and the account of the dead at the great white throne judgment. The dead are people who never believed in Jesus, that is why they are referred to as the dead.

Believers are never referred to as dead. The very moment a person believes in Jesus for Eternal Life. They cross over from death to life.

 

[Riot42]

Exactly what The Bible states it means, all people (believers and unbelievers) have had their sin paid for by Jesus at the cross.

You have moved the goalpost and altered what you said here. Jesus PAID for sin, he took on the punishment of sin, we agree here. He did not "take away all sin" as you originally stated and started this whole argument right here

"Jesus took away all sin, believers and unbelievers all sin is just that all sin."


Paying for, and taking away are two different statements.

Furthermore, "all the world" is alluding to gentiles being accepted into the faith, not unbelievers who do not accept Christs' payment for sin. If you believe otherwise you believe as the Christian universalist movement believes.

No one goes to the lake of fire because of their sin.

Matthew 5:30 disagrees.

And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for the that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

 

[d taylor]

You have moved the goalpost and altered what you said here. Jesus PAID for sin, he took on the punishment of sin, we agree here. He did not "take away all sin" as you originally stated and started this whole argument right here

"Jesus took away all sin, believers and unbelievers all sin is just that all sin."

Furthermore, "all the world" is alluding to gentiles being accepted into the faith, not unbelievers who do not accept Christs' payment for sin.

Paying for, and taking away are two different statements.



Matthew 5:30 disagrees.

And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for the that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

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Paid for is taking away, why is this so hard for you to understand. It does not mean people cease to be sinners. All people will remain a sinner till the day they die.

The difference between a believer and and unbeliever is that after death the believer is free from sin. They are no longer a sinner, but the unbeliever remains a sinner for all eternity, but still all of their sins have been taken away and forgiven and paid for, by Jesus.

No Matthew 5 does not, sure if a single verse is taken out of the context. It can be made to mean anything you want it to mean.

What Jesus is addressing is what is keeping a person from believing in Him to receive Eternal Life. It would be better to lose this part of their life, than to keep any part of their life that may be keeping a person from believing in Jesus. Because the end result of not believing in Jesus, will be the person remaining an unbeliever and end up in the lake of fire.

You can read a longer written article about Matthew 5:29-30 at the links.

Self-Sacrifice and Kingdom Entrance – Matthew 5:29-30 (Part 1 of 2) – Grace Evangelical Society

Self-Sacrifice and Kingdom Entrance – Matthew 5:29-30 (Part 2 of 2) – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[Riot42]

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Paid for is taking away, why is this so hard for you to understand.

They are two different statements. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

If you ask me to pay for something, I must make a payment for you to recieve it IE Jesus paying the price of sin for our eternal life. If you ask me to take something away from you, I must take the thing away from you. IE Jesus taking away sin can only mean he took the sin away.

It does not mean people cease to be sinners. All people will remain a sinner till the day they die.

Thats not what the statement "take away sin" means. Had you originally said "Paid for sin" there would have been no disagreement.

The difference between a believer and and unbeliever is that after death the believer is free from sin. They are no longer a sinner, but the unbeliever remains a sinner for all eternity, but still all of their sins have been taken away and forgiven and paid for, by Jesus.

No Matthew 5 does not, sure if a single verse is taken out of the context. It can be made to mean anything you want it to mean.

You are the one taking it out of context.

What Jesus is addressing is what is keeping a person from believing in Him to receive Eternal Life.

It would be better to lose this part of their life, than to keep any part of their life that may be keeping a person from believing in Jesus. Because the end result of not believing in Jesus, will be the person remaining an unbeliever and end up in the lake of fire.

Thats not what that means, you are twisting scripture taking it out of context, read the full chapter. Before this Jesus says that even looking at a woman with lust in your heart is adultery. He is talking about sins, not faith. You are the one changing context.

Here is another from matthew your belief requires you twist/ignore.

Matt 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[Bones49]

Well I think you are both wrong, possibly because you are so busy arguing that you don’t have time to think.

This is a legal transaction all are guilty of breaking the law and have been judged this and therefore are condemned to death! (Do we all agree?)

Jesus’ death paid the penalty of this judgement he died so that we all might live. While this is a free gift it is not unconditional - we must accept the gift for it to become ours - God will not attribute Jesus’ death to our account unless we accept that Jesus died for us. (Excuse me if for simplicity this acceptance isn’t accurate). Can we all agree?

Those thrown into the lake of fire are those whose names are not written in the lambs book of life, because they never accepted the lambs sacrifice for the forgiveness of their sins. The reason that they are thrown into the lake of fire in the first place is sin - for the wages of sin is death - this is the punishment for our sins which Jesus paid for with his death on the cross! Can we all agree?

As Christians me must live holy and righteous lives - the true Christian life is one of entire sanctification which is available again only through accepting it from Jesus.