Infallible Authority Of The Church.

[Always in His Presence]

~ snip ~ she cannot be divided and racked with errors.

That would leave the Roman Catholic Church out of the equation. It is racked with divisions and massive errors.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

The physical churches can fall, in a similar way of how the Temple fell.

The temple was a building, the Church is not.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

That would leave the Roman Catholic Church out of the equation. It is racked with divisions and massive errors.

It pleases me that your judgement is your own.

 

[Hawkins]

The temple was a building, the Church is not.

No, The Temple bears the meaning of the Tabernacle on earth!

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

No, The Temple bears the meaning of the Tabernacle on earth!

Can you show that from holy scripture - given that there is a heavenly temple, and an ark of the covenant in it, and that all the things appertaining to the heavenly temple were shown to Moses as a model for the earthly tabernacle - a passage that says that the earthly temple dictates the meaning of Church and Temple?

 

[Hawkins]

Can you show that from holy scripture - given that there is a heavenly temple, and an ark of the covenant in it, and that all the things appertaining to the heavenly temple were shown to Moses as a model for the earthly tabernacle - a passage that says that the earthly temple dictates the meaning of Church and Temple?

You need to study the meaning of the term Tabernacle. Tell us what the Tabernacle is!

Hebrews 9:11
But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation.

Similarly, the Temple/Church built in three days and as the body of Christ is infallible, which however is not Roman Catholic Church though.

 

[Always in His Presence]

It pleases me that your judgement is your own.

I derive the same pleasure knowing your judgement is your own also.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Tell us what the Tabernacle is!

You need a dictionary, not me, to tell you that.

 

[Dan Perez]

You need to study the meaning of the term Tabernacle. Tell us what the Tabernacle is!

Hebrews 9:11
But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation.

Similarly, the Temple/Church built in three days and as the body of Christ is infallible, which however is not Roman Catholic Church though.

Another good verse is in Heb 8:2 !!

dan p

 

[Tigran1245]

OK, so to be clear, your belief is that Nicaea, Constantinople, and Ephesus are not infallible, correct?

I am not asking you whether they DO contain error. I am asking you whether they COULD contain error. You already raised this distinction in one of your previous posts so clearly you understand the difference.

I am OO, and I can answer your question (my personal opinion). Infallible faith can be only in case of Ecumenical Council. And True Ecumenical Council is Council, which is accepted by all Chuches in the world.

So, the Councils of Nicea and Constantinople were accepted by absolutely all the Churches of the world. And we can confidently call them infallible. The Council of Ephesus, at the moment, has not yet been accepted by the Assyrian Church of the East. Therefore, until the ACE accepts Ephesus or disappears, we will not have a guarantee of the truth of Ephesus, only our faith.

It is worth noting that Councils can only become infallible in matters of faith. The formulation of dogmas (terminology) and the condemnation of people are never subject to infallibility.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The Church has authority from God to teach regarding faith and morals, and in her teaching she is preserved from error by the special guidance of the Holy Ghost.

The prerogative of infallibility is clearly deduced from the attributes of the Church: the Church is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. Preaching the same creed everywhere and at all times; teaching holiness and truth, she is, of course, essentially unerring in her doctrine; for what is one, holy or unchangeable must be infallibly true.

That the Church was infallible in the Apostolic age is denied by no Christian. We never question the truth of the Apostles' declarations;(See Gal. 4:14; 1Thess. 2: 13.) they were, in fact, the only authority in the Church for the first century. The New Testament was not completed till the close of the first century. There is no just ground for denying to the Apostolic teachers of the twenty-first century in which we live a prerogative clearly possessed by those of the first, especially as the Divine Word nowhere intimates that this unerring guidance was to die with the Apostles. On the contrary, as the Apostles transmitted to their successors their power to preach, to baptize, to ordain, to confirm, etc., they must also have handed down to them the no less essential gift of infallibility. [Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers]

That must mean the Methodist/Presbyterian Union church I attend. The miracle is that this awesome authority is contained in 15 people, 13 of whom are female between 50 and 90 years of age, and two elderly males. We are at the cutting edge of what God is doing in our community. Who's to say we aren't?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Who's to say we aren't?

me

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

me

So you are saying I'm not part of the true Church?

 

[Tigran1245]

So you are saying I'm not part of the true Church?

You cannot be part of the Church if there is no priesthood and apostolic succession in your community. And without apostolic succession it is impossible to perform the Sacraments.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

So you are saying I'm not part of the true Church?

That is incorrect.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You cannot be part of the Church if there is no priesthood and apostolic succession in your community. And without apostolic succession it is impossible to perform the Sacraments.

Prove to me from Scripture apostolic succession and a New Covenant priesthood. I put it to you that there is no such thing, and the doctrine is a fraud and a lie to distract people from the true Gospel of Christ.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That is incorrect.

The true church is made up of those who genuinely believe in Christ and who are trusting in His finished work on the Cross and who are born again of the Spirit of God. The visible church with all its different denominations is the scaffold that encloses the true church.

 

[Tigran1245]

Prove to me from Scripture apostolic succession and a New Covenant priesthood. I put it to you that there is no such thing, and the doctrine is a fraud and a lie to distract people from the true Gospel of Christ.

The canon of Scripture was determined by the Church, i.e. people with apostolic succession. Thus, the very authority of Scripture comes from the authority of the priesthood. So, it is incorrect to prove the truth of a cause by its consequences. If you deny the priesthood, you must deny the canon of Scripture too.

 

[IcyChain]

You cannot be part of the Church if there is no priesthood and apostolic succession in your community. And without apostolic succession it is impossible to perform the Sacraments.

Well, not exactly. Priests are not necessary for baptism. Anyone can baptize with the proper intention and form. I would say that all baptized Christians are part of the Church, although some are imperfectly united.

 

[Tigran1245]

Well, not exactly. Priests are not necessary for baptism. Anyone can baptize with the proper intention and form. I would say that all baptized Christians are part of the Church, although some are imperfectly united.

Yes, priests are not required for baptism. But it is believed that the priesthood is obligatory for the Eucharist.