Is believing/faith a work ?

[Brightfame52]

In your ignorance to God's word, you base your argument upon conflating faith with works. However, Paul sharply contrasts the two, and shows that our faith is credited as righteousness. And we are to take God at His word as there is no higher authority.

Romans 4:4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. NIV​

However, Jesus commends faith (NIV). If the Father was in some way causing these ones to believe, the commendation would go the Father instead of individuals.

1. Matthew 9:22 Jesus turned and saw her. “Take heart, daughter,” he said, “your faith has healed you.”
2. Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”
3. Mark 5:34 He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering.”
4. Mark 10:52 “Go,” said Jesus, “your faith has healed you.” Immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.
5. Luke 7:50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
6. Luke 8:48 Then he said to her, “Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace.”
7. Luke 17:19 Then he said to him, “Rise and go; your faith has made you well.”
8. Luke 18:42 Jesus said to him, “Receive your sight; your faith has healed you.”

"Works” speak of our own merit, while faith in someone else to save us, speaks of the merit of the one in whom we are placing our trust. So, when we place our faith in Christ, we are not adding to our own merits. We are not building up our own value. Faith in Christ, instead, points to someone else’s merits, who saves us solely by His choice to show grace toward anyone who puts their trust in Him.

God saves us apart from the works of the Law, and on the basis of His own purpose and grace. If one does not conflate man’s free choice to repent with God’s free choice to save the repentant, then this is not an issue that needs to be reconciled. Humbly admitting you need salvation is not equal to saving yourself. Confessing your sin, even if done freely, does not earn or merit forgiveness for that sin, otherwise, there would have been no need for the cross. Even though Abraham believed in God, he still had a debt that he could not pay. God graciously chose to pay that debt through the sacrifice of His Son, without which no one would be saved.

Calvinists commonly conflate faith with works: From the Calvinistic perspective, anyone that teaches that salvation comes about by anything other than an “Irresistible Grace,” necessarily makes salvation into a works-based process, because (as it is reasoned) once you incorporate any act of the human will—even as little as a person’s submission in passive non-resistance—what is left is some element of human contribution in the process. So, when Calvinists say that “salvation is of the Lord” (Jonah 2:9), what they really mean is that God does everything in salvation, including the act of faith, on behalf of the person, by overcoming their resistance through an irresistible gift of pre-faith regeneration. In other words, Calvinists believe that faith becomes a “work” whenever we come to think of faith as something that we do ourselves, absent of an Irresistible Grace. This means that in Calvinism, faith without Irresistible Grace = works.

There is no way around it, if you condition salvation on your faith, or repentance, on any act you do, its a works base salvation condemned by the Blood of Christ.

 

[Clare73]

Yes Salvation is by Sovereign Grace apart from conditions, if you condition salvation on your faith, it becomes works, thats apostacy.

Wrong. . .maybe according to you, but not according to the NT, where you have no standing.

You either believe the NT, or you don't.

You've made your choice and I've made mine.

The rest is between oneself and the Holy Spirit, where I am delighted to leave it.

Hope you are the same. . .

 

[Clare73]

Yes Salvation is by Sovereign Grace apart from conditions, if you condition salvation on your faith, it becomes works, thats apostacy.

Previously addressed. . .

 

[Brightfame52]

Wrong. . .maybe according to you, but not according to the NT, where you have no standing.

You either believe the NT, or you don't.

You've made your choice and I've made mine.

The rest is between oneself and the Holy Spirit, where I am delighted to leave it.

Hope you are the same. . .

Again

if you condition salvation on your faith, it becomes works, thats apostacy.

 

[GenemZ]

If you condition salvation on anything you do, any simple act you do, its salvation by works.

That is what we have been accepted by the mainstream religious media.

We must learn what was meant when it says not by works. (plurality means a religious system of deeds to follow to earn salvation)

On the other hand, it does not say....
Not by ANY work. (singular - not a system - believing in Jesus Christ = faith)

Why do you think Rev-20:12 says that all believers will NOT be judged according to their sins?
Instead, it says all unbelievers will have their works?
Works that will be searched through and found not to warrant God's approval.

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God: and the books were opened, ​

and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged ​

out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." (Rev-20:12)​

Why does it say "works" specifically?
According to their works?
Not, according their sins?

Because its will be one solitary work looked for.
And, not found!

That one work?

"Believing" in Jesus Christ.

​

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”​

​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”​

John 6:28-29

 

[AbbaLove]

If you condition salvation on anything you do, any simple act you do, its salvation by works.

When the "works" done are the result of the prompting / unction / anointing of the Holy Spirit then those "works" are justified. That's the "works" James is referring to ...

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:17-26)​

​

Those that don't accept these inspired NT words of James are likely more into Seeker-Sensitive (easy peasy) theology. A false theology that doesn't believe the nine supernatural Gifts of the Holy Soirit are still operative today as "Good Works" by Faithful Born Again Followers Of Christ Jesus.​

 

[Clare73]

Again

if you condition salvation on your faith, it becomes works, thats apostacy.

Your issue is with the Holy Spirit in Eph 2:8-9.

That's above my paygrade.

 

[Brightfame52]

That is what we have been accepted by the mainstream religious media.

We must learn what was meant when it says not by works. (plurality means a religious system of deeds to follow to earn salvation)

On the other hand, it does not say....
Not by ANY work. (singular - not a system - believing in Jesus Christ = faith)

Why do you think Rev-20:12 says that all believers will NOT be judged according to their sins?
Instead, it says all unbelievers will have their works?
Works that will be searched through and found not to warrant God's approval.

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God: and the books were opened, ​

and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged ​

out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." (Rev-20:12)​

Why does it say "works" specifically?
According to their works?
Not, according their sins?

Because its will be one solitary work looked for.
And, not found!

That one work?

"Believing" in Jesus Christ.

​

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”​

​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”​

John 6:28-29

Look, Im saying if you make salvation conditioned on anything you do, I mean anything done by you, its works religion.

 

[Brightfame52]

When the "works" done are the result of the prompting / unction / anointing of the Holy Spirit then those "works" are justified. That's the "works" James is referring to ...

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:17-26)​

​

Those that don't accept these inspired NT words of James are likely more into Seeker-Sensitive (easy peasy) theology. A false theology that doesn't believe the nine supernatural Gifts of the Holy Soirit are still operative today as "Good Works" by Faithful Born Again Followers Of Christ Jesus.​

Once again:

If you condition salvation on anything you do, any simple act you do, its salvation by works.

 

[Brightfame52]

Your issue is with the Holy Spirit in Eph 2:8-9.

That's above my paygrade.

Again

if you condition salvation on your faith, it becomes works, thats apostacy.

 

[Halbhh]

If you condition salvation on your faith, its salvation by works. I explain that from the thread title.

The thing is, you'd better check with Christ (His teachings to us in the gospels) on that, and the Bible generally, as we are told we are saved if we have faith, in the end.

Not without faith, but with faith.

Now, of course, we learn that faith comes to us by the Grace of God through hearing about Christ....

That's not our own accomplishment.

So, perhaps your trouble on this where you keep challenging believers that believe in Christ with saving faith -- who are saved because they have faith, as the Bible tells us -- is about semantics.

Where you might be wrongly thinking if we say "we are saved by Grace through faith", you might think those words mean we are suggesting (which we are not!) that this is our own doing and accomplishment.

That would be a semantical misunderstanding.

That wonderful gift of faith itself is not from us, we can learn.

But you have to read the Bible to learn that...

For example:

"Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ."

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God"

So, you can learn such things like this over time, if you read the Bible.

Thanks be to God, because we could never have figured out these things on our own!

 

[Brightfame52]

The thing is, you'd better check with Christ (His teachings to us in the gospels) on that, and the Bible generally, as we are told we are saved if we have faith, in the end.

Not without faith, but with faith.

Now, of course, we learn that faith comes to us by the Grace of God through hearing about Christ....

That's not our own accomplishment.

So, perhaps your trouble on this where you keep challenging believers that believe in Christ with saving faith -- who are saved because they have faith, as the Bible tells us -- is about semantics.

Where you might be wrongly thinking if we say "we are saved by Grace through faith", you might think those words mean we are suggesting (which we are not!) that this is our own doing and accomplishment.

That would be a semantical misunderstanding.

That wonderful gift of faith itself is not from us, we can learn.

But you have to read the Bible to learn that...

For example:

"Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ."

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God"

So, you can learn such things like this over time, if you read the Bible.

Thanks be to God, because we could never have figured out these things on our own!

If you condition salvation on your faith, its salvation by works.

 

[GenemZ]

Look, Im saying if you make salvation conditioned on anything you do, I mean anything done by you, its works religion.

OK .. don't believe in Jesus then.

Better now?

The Devil is the author of confusion.
God wants us to stop being simple minded....

 

[Halbhh]

If you condition salvation on your faith, its salvation by works.

Now you are practically just abusing us, breaking the Golden Rule that Christ said we are to follow.

How? By not responding to the actual words in responses to you, which is not what you'd want others to do to you.

I've explained just now it for example there might be misunderstanding about semantics, but you just totally ignored that it appears by repeating your sentence the 5th or 6th time.

It's just like as if someone repeated to you over and over that 3 + 4 = 7, even after you already acknowledged it, but just pretended that you had not acknowledged it.

 

[Brightfame52]

OK .. don't believe in Jesus then.

Better now?

The Devil is the author of confusion.
God wants us to stop being simple minded....

if you make salvation conditioned on anything you do, I mean anything done by you, its works religion.

 

[Brightfame52]

Now you are practically just abusing us, breaking the Golden Rule that Christ said we are to follow.

How? By not responding to the actual words in responses to you, which is not what you'd want others to do to you.

I've explained just now it for example there might be misunderstanding about semantics, but you just totally ignored that it appears by repeating your sentence the 5th or 6th time.

It's just like as if someone repeated to you over and over that 3 + 4 = 7, even after you already acknowledged it, but just pretended that you had not acknowledged it.

If it doesnt apply to you whats your beef ? This is a caution to anyone who conditions Salvation on something they do, even their act of believing.

 

[Halbhh]

if you make salvation conditioned on anything you do, I mean anything done by you, its works religion.

Nothing we ever do could save us or cause our salvation, nor merit our salvation. It's the pure gift of God to those who believe in Christ, who suffered on the cross to save us:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Bible Gateway passage: John 3:16-17 - New International Version

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

www.biblegateway.com

If you believe in Christ, for salvation from your sins, He saves!

It's not too late. He will save you if you trust in Him and turn to Him.

 

[John Mullally]

if you make salvation conditioned on anything you do, I mean anything done by you, its works religion.

Believe what you like (1 Timothy 4:1), but what you say positions you as a fatalist - and places squarely you in the same camp as Islam (Islam and Calvinism: An Uncomfortable Comparison – Grace Evangelical Society) and many from pagan stoic religions that confronted early Christianity.

fatalism​

noun​

fa·tal·ism ˈfā-tə-ˌli-zəm​

​

: a doctrine that events are fixed in advance so that human beings are powerless to change them​

also : a belief in or attitude determined by this doctrine fatalism that regards social problems as simply inevitable​

Peter, not a fatalist like yourself, promises you can do something to be saved. When earnestly asked "What shall we do?", Peter promises salvation (as that accompanies the remission of sins and gift of the Holy Spirit) to those who repent and are baptized in Acts 2:38. Acts 2:39 says that that offer extends to today. In addition, the Lord's call (in Acts 2;39) goes out to all because God commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). God's call is not a dog whistle intended only to particular ones selected to respond- it goes out to all. God is not duplicitous like a trickster satanic character commanding some to do that which He does not permit them to do. God so loved the world, not just those who went on to believe. God is love (1 John 4:8 and 1 Corinthians 13 tells us what love is). Love believes the best of others. Accordingly, our God of love does not predestine any to eternal torment!

Acts 2:36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” 37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” 40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.​

God, wants everyone to freely respond to the Gospel, but many sadly don't (as explained in John 3;19-20) and that is not a negative reflection on God.

1 Timothy 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.​

​

Based upon history, I expect you will object by vacuously repeating yourself instead of answering objections You behave just like those in Acts 19:28.

 

[Gr8Grace]

If you condition salvation on your faith, its salvation by works.

So you don't believe in anything for your salvation?

 

[Brightfame52]

Nothing we ever do could save us or cause our salvation, nor merit our salvation. It's the pure gift of God to those who believe in Christ, who suffered on the cross to save us:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Bible Gateway passage: John 3:16-17 - New International Version

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

www.biblegateway.com

If you believe in Christ, for salvation from your sins, He saves!

It's not too late. He will save you if you trust in Him and turn to Him.

If you make salvation conditioned on anything you do, I mean anything done by you, its works religion.