Don't you see LoveofTruth? What you evidence right here by saying such as you do when you say pastors even pastors who weren't totally perfect that they didn't have no part to play in strengthening the body as a worker of Christ its shows were you've gone off into the extreme.
No, the thought presented to me was of one who puts their reliance on the one man pastor to get them there. That is not a true statement. First Christ has been working in them since they were born into this world (John 1:9). Then. when they are born again it is Christ who led them and convicted them inwardly and who saves them. Then all good works that they ever do are connected to God who works in them to will and to do and to make them perfect unto every good work *Hebrews 13, 20,21). Jesus said without him we can do nothing (John 15). We also see that Christ uses his body the church to help men in the faith and to win souls and edify, teach exhort comfort. warn etc, and every part of the body is involved, not just as this man implies the pastor. Christ works in every believer and all the gifts.
I think we will see in heaven that many were led astray by many men who called themselves pastors. Not all, but many. The stress on the one man as being the reason they got to heaven is (as I understand) not right.
Do you admit this or is is not the excellency of the power of God and not of us? Does not Christ work effectually in every part of the body to the edifying of itself in love? ( Ephesians 4:16)
Even pastors who aren't functioning in the way you put forth still can be considered for some acknowledgment that it is THEY who did help other Christians continue in the faith. Hislegacy did make a good point. It seems you're wanting to play the game of totally bad, totally bad, totally bad in defining Pastoral types you think are missing it. Come on.
Some men do help others in Christ as God works in them to will and to do and to make them perfect, yes, God has worked in those often. But the stress was on them again. The super star of the church the one man who is the greatest among all believers in some peoples eyes and who controls all and organizes all etc. This is wrong according to scripture. Christ must have preeminance in all and the body function is in Christ with every part supplying. We should not stress the one man or one gift as being the main responsibility for men to see the Lord. At least according to scripture * 1 Cor 12, 14 Romans 12, Ephesians 4 etc)
But I would confirm all the body and the many things they do in Christ, such as the evangelist who spends cold days on the street winning souls and sitting with the homeless over a warm meal. Or the persecuted and misunderstood prophet who warns the church and others and is cast aside and ridiculed or the teacher who shares the wonders of God to the body but the so called pastor feels irritated by him so he doesnt allow him to speak, Or the faithful christian who may not recognize any gifts in himself of the five fold gifts, and yet patiently helps the poor and other friends he sees and shares his faith. The ones who always seek out the struggling in the assembly and visit them and help them in whatever they need , etc etc etc etc etc etc.
If we continue to stress the one man over all or even the true pastoral gift alone we continue to create the disfunction in the body and the other parts of the body are brushed aside.
This is my main issue with what is said. I do not speak of the good works a man may have done as a pastor. if they are in Christ amen. But I speak of the role that hinders and as we see here does not even acknowledge the other parts of the body.
Perhaps. But you've lost all creditability to what you say when you stated what you did before. (unless you want to dial that back) Like I've said I like many things you've said but you fall off into the extreme in the way you present things. Pastors (even imperfect ones haven't helped many continue in the faith? You clearly don't want to give them any credit that they have. That's where your message seems to go astray.
I never said all those n the unbiblical role as controlers over the entire assembly dont have good things they have done or that many are not true believers. No I am addressing their role and exalted position as a kind of lord over the flock. Even the most humble gracious man who is called a "pastor" can be tempted in this role with all sorts of temptations, such as pride, controlling spirit, arrogance, selfishness, greed for money, fear of not getting enough money, self will, etc. I do not say that all will fall into these things. But I have seen enough of these men in my 40 years ministry to say that a great many are in various struggles. Yes, there are some loving gracious men in these roles. I have met some, but the function and role they play is what I address, not their character. And for a man to stress them as the reason men are in heaven, though they may have played some part they are not the sole reason I believe.
and here is a few statistics ( though hard to totally rely on them) that speak of pastors today.
"Younger pastors are particularly affected by burnout, the study said, noting that “46 percent of pastors under the age of 45 say they are considering quitting full-time ministry, compared to 34 percent of pastors 45 and older.”
- 50% of pastors feel unable to meet the demands of the job.
- 90% of pastors report working between 55 and 75 hours per week.
- 40% of pastors have considered leaving their churches in the past three months.
- 85% of pastors said their greatest problem is they are sick and tired of dealing with problem people.
- 85% of pastors said their greatest problem is they are sick and tired of dealing with problem people.
- 3 out of 4 pastors feel they are inadequately trained to cope with the stress caused by ministry demands.
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"50% of pastors feel unable to meet the demands of the job."
This statistic is a stark reminder of the immense pressure that pastors face in their roles. It highlights the need for greater support and resources to help pastors cope with the demands of their job, and to ensure that they are able to continue to serve their congregations effectively. 90% of pastors report working between 55 and 75 hours per week.
These statistics may be connected to the fact that they were never intended to do it all or be the head of the church or control everything or be registered with the word and the rudiments of it.
so my message does not go astray. God never intended for one man to do it all or have control of all the activities of the church or to be exalted above all. His plan was always a body ministry and edifying of itself in love as Christ works in every one of them. We cannot say to one part we have no need of you * 1 Cor 12)
