What are the key issues of US Election 2024?

[QvQ]

I am generally aware of how inflation works on purchasing power. There are reasons economists don't use "bag of movie groceries" as a measure of inflation.

The price of groceries was removed as a measure of inflation during the Clinton Administration., mid 1990's. The CPI does not include groceries or fuel. It only includes everything else. However, when groceries cost 50% more and fuel 65% more, the consumer stops buying everything else so the price of everything else will not necessarily go up or may even go down.

A fact reported in a movie does not change the fact. In books and recently movies, the mention of a price or a wage is credible historical evidence. I was recently reading a novel from the 1960's where a man calculates whether he could buy a house. He stated the price of the house, his income, the rate of interest and the terms of the loan. That was incidental to the story but it is still actual, factual information about "conditions on the ground" at that particular place and time.

There is nothing I can say to convince you.
What are you arguing? That inflation doesn't exist? If I could understand what you objecting to in my arguments I could address it more specifically

There is the price of beans. Beans were 19 cents a lb, now beans are $1.24. The only thing that really matters is whether a person has the price of beans. That is what it means, wages and government spending keeping pace with inflation.

 

[Merrill]

That might be an even dumber measure than the traditional "cost of a turkey dinner for 6" or "the full cost of the 12 days of Christmas" and those are pretty dumb.

It really wouldn't. Some ad hoc collection of items and a price based on a movie script really don't hold sway.

I am generally aware of how inflation works on purchasing power. There are reasons economists don't use "bag of movie groceries" as a measure of inflation.

Let's look at the median home price in 1990 vs. now

a 400% increase in 23 years: over 17% per year. And notice how it exploded since 2000

If food and energy are added to inflation calculations (which do include shelter), the rate over the last 20 years goes up dramatically. Look at the price increase for gas:

is all this a "vast right-wing conspiracy"? Pretty sure the statistics speak for themselves

 

[Hans Blaster]

Let's look at the median home price in 1990 vs. now
View attachment 340582
a 400% increase in 23 years: over 17% per year. And notice how it exploded since 2000

And housing sizes have grown as well. If this plot were definitive, then my house was "median" if I'd bought it in Junior High.

If food and energy are added to inflation calculations (which do include shelter), the rate over the last 20 years goes up dramatically. Look at the price increase for gas:
View attachment 340583
is all this a "vast right-wing conspiracy"? Pretty sure the statistics speak for themselves

You left "0" off the gas plot, and gas is now under $3/gal.

 

[Hans Blaster]

There is the price of beans. Beans were 19 cents a lb, now beans are $1.24. The only thing that really matters is whether a person has the price of beans. That is what it means, wages and government spending keeping pace with inflation.

Or they don't give a hill of beans about the price of beans. I hate beans.

 

[JustOneWay]

The price of groceries was removed as a measure of inflation during the Clinton Administration., mid 1990's. The CPI does not include groceries or fuel. It only includes everything else. However, when groceries cost 50% more and fuel 65% more, the consumer stops buying everything else so the price of everything else will not necessarily go up or may even go down.

A fact reported in a movie does not change the fact. In books and recently movies, the mention of a price or a wage is credible historical evidence. I was recently reading a novel from the 1960's where a man calculates whether he could buy a house. He stated the price of the house, his income, the rate of interest and the terms of the loan. That was incidental to the story but it is still actual, factual information about "conditions on the ground" at that particular place and time.

There is nothing I can say to convince you.
What are you arguing? That inflation doesn't exist? If I could understand what you objecting to in my arguments I could address it more specifically

There is the price of beans. Beans were 19 cents a lb, now beans are $1.24. The only thing that really matters is whether a person has the price of beans. That is what it means, wages and government spending keeping pace with inflation.

I remember the 90's! I was making a fraction of the money I make today. Let's just whine about how prices have gone up without mentioning the fact that salaries have also increased.

 

[Merrill]

And housing sizes have grown as well. If this plot were definitive, then my house was "median" if I'd bought it in Junior High.

You left "0" off the gas plot, and gas is now under $3/gal.

So houses have grown by my than 400%

I was wondering why my house was suddenly 35,000 square feet

 

[JustOneWay]

I was wondering why my house was suddenly 35,000 square feet

Why not? Trumps apartment magically grew in size....why can't yours?

 

[QvQ]

I remember the 90's! I was making a fraction of the money I make today. Let's just whine about how prices have gone up without mentioning the fact that salaries have also increased.

Exactly, when the price of beans is 19 cents and you don't have a penny. Beans go up to $1.24 and you have $5.00,
Wages and government spending keep pace or even exceeds the rate of inflation then it doesn't matter.

However, an interesting fact that is getting a "heads up" by economist:
2023 is considered to be a somewhat normal year, inflation, employment, military spending, all within what is considered normal.
The deficit in 2023 is $2T. The deficit in 2022 was $1T. Those numbers are separate, not additive.
The deficit in 2023 is 2T.
That is an indication about the stability of the underlying economy.

 

[QvQ]

You left "0" off the gas plot, and gas is now under $3/gal.

And inflation is down
Inflation is driven by the price of oil. Even the Carter inflation was due to the price of oil.
It is simple. I read the Oil Prices Chart rather than the other government figures. And inflation is going to go back up because of disruption of shipping in Red Sea.

Now that Deficit
That deficit means either the government is spending too much or the country did not collectively produce enough in taxables to pay.
This 2023 deficit is due to tax revenues. When tax revenues fall, that means the economy has slowed. Production has fallen off.
Deficits are always in the news as "government spending." The more serious cause of deficits is a weak and unproductive economy.

 

[Hans Blaster]

So houses have grown by my than 400%

I was wondering why my house was suddenly 35,000 square feet

It used to be 7,000 sq. ft.? No wonder you think houses cost so much.

 

[KCfromNC]

Neither party is loved, but I would not say this is propaganda or a false claim. Nor is it a fake far-right taking point. It is Gallup.

Does gallup say anything about the claims "they are weaponizing the courts and law enforcement to attack and destroy their opponents. They are engaging in election interference by intimidation and threatening voters with litigation if they dare speak up for Republicans or against Democrats."

 

[KCfromNC]

Let's look at the median home price in 1990 vs. now

a 400% increase in 23 years: over 17% per year.

$100K to $400K is a 300% increase, not 400%. Also, it's been 33 years since 1990, not 23. And that's not how growth rates are calculated, 300% growth in 23 years is 4.4% a year.

 

[QvQ]

$100K to $400K is a 300% increase, not 400%. Also, it's been 33 years since 1990, not 23. And that's not how growth rates are calculated, 300% growth in 23 years is 4.4% a year.

It doesn't seem to matter what numbers or calculation a person uses, it is Not 2% the government claims per year.
The inflation rate has never been 2% or less, Can't be with accumulated inflation over longer periods.
But obviously if even 4.4% is an average, the inflation rate has been some higher than 2% for some time in the past.

 

[USincognito]

It is not unusual, illegal or even noteworthy that a foreign government would endorse a Presidential candidate. China is not at all shy about favoring Biden and there is more evidence of collusion between Biden and China than there is between Trump and Russia.

Absolute poppycock. President Biden and Xi have, at best, a tense relationship. There's zero, literally zero evidence of "collusion" between Biden and China. That is pure fantasy.

Now if I accept that Trump would have welcomed freely given evidence against Hillary and Biden accepting bribes from the Chinese Government...

There is actual evidence that Donald was helped by Russian hackers. There is literally ZERO evidence of President Biden accepting bribes from teh Chinese.
In reality, there's evidence that China was seeking favor from Donald while he was in office.

Trump waited until after he left office to disclose trademarks he owns in China and Russia

Donald Trump owns over 100 trademarks in China, more than any other country by far, including the United States.

www.businessinsider.com

Alleged China-Fighter Donald Trump Has Secret Chinese Bank Account

Another big scandal — and huge conflict of interest — has surfaced from the tax returns obtained by the New York Times.

nymag.com

>> But Biden does not have financial ties to China. We know this because he released his tax returns. Trump has not released his tax returns. But the New York Times has obtained at least some of them. And they found that Trump has a Chinese bank account, and suggest he has collected earnings from that country while serving as president. <<

Forbes Estimates China Paid Trump At Least $5.4 Million Since He Took Office, Via Mysterious Trump Tower Lease

Donald Trump maintained a stake in Trump Tower when he became president, and with it, a financial connection to the Chinese government.

www.forbes.com

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Does gallup say anything about the claims "they are weaponizing the courts and law enforcement to attack and destroy their opponents. They are engaging in election interference by intimidation and threatening voters with litigation if they dare speak up for Republicans or against Democrats."

No... that is just observation, reading the papers, and watching the nightly news. You know... reality.

 

[QvQ]

Absolute poppycock. President Biden and Xi have, at best, a tense relationship. There's zero, literally zero evidence of "collusion" between Biden and China. That is pure fantasy.

Gee. I could have sworn Biden was just impeached because of "business" deals with China.
The only business in China is the government.
And Hunter Biden is facing charges for Tax Fraud.
Did Biden declare his 10% is a question that seems to have been asked recently.
This is an issue. Corruption in government is rampant.
Toss them all out. O we did that. AOC, a bartender was elected and is now reported to be a millionaire.
I don't have the answers but I do know..Biden ain't it.

 

[USincognito]

Gee. I could have sworn Biden was just impeached because of "business" deals with China.

President Biden hasn't been impeached. The Republicans are pantomiming an investigation to see if there should be an impeachment investigation.

The only business in China is the government.

Which means Donald got at least 25 million and 114 trademarks from the CCP while President. That sounds like collusion to me.

And Hunter Biden is facing charges for Tax Fraud.

Red Herring.

Did Biden declare his 10% is a question that seems to have been asked recently.

Probably by people who are ignorant of the actual facts and think Internet memes are the truth.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/11/23/dissecting-gop-claims-about-hunter-biden-deals-allegedly-involving-his-father/

>> James Gilliar, a business associate summarizing the allocation of the equity in Oneida Holdings LLC., in the email, wrote how four partners would get 20 percent each, except for Jim Biden, who would get 10 percent. He added a question: “10 held by H for the big guy?” One of the recipients of the mail, Anthony Bobulinski, has said that the “big guy” referred to Joe Biden and that “H” referred to Hunter. Bobulinski was a guest of Trump at one of the 2020 presidential debates.

But Gilliar told the Wall Street Journal in 2020: “I would like to clear up any speculation that former Vice President Biden was involved with the 2017 discussions about our potential business structure. I am unaware of any involvement at anytime of the former vice president. The activity in question never delivered any project revenue.”

Three days after the email was sent, a draft agreement setting up Oneida was circulated. It shows each partner would receive 20 percent, including Jim Biden. No mention is made of Joe Biden. <<
bold mine

So, the guy who actually wrote that email says it wasn't Joe Biden, the paperwork on the deal doesn't mention Joe Biden and the deal fell through and there never was 10% for whomever was "the big guy". Having been corrected, I'd like to think you'll stop using the debunked 10% trope, but I know that you won't.

Toss them all out. O we did that. AOC, a bartender was elected and is now reported to be a millionaire.

This is another popular talking point. Rep. Ocasio-Cortez helped worked as a bartender to help support her mother after her father died. I know that the right has great disdain for people going to college and for working class folks, so that's a double strike against her.

 

[QvQ]

Red Herring.

I am heartily sick of the entire mess. Trump and Biden. This has been going on for years and most Americans are sick of it. Sick of all of it.
I am not voting for Trump based on a bunch of nonsense and I am not voting for Biden based on another round of whatever.
Biden, in my estimation is incompetent. Trump, if he is the nominee, is a better candidate.
That is my entire view.
If you want to discuss what Biden has done on the issues, I will give him one thing I liked. He said officials had to take the train.
That doesn't apply to John Kerry and Buttigieg or even Hunter Biden, most likely but it did give me an entertaining vision of what if those folks had to take the bus. I was almost even liking the idea of electric busses filled with Washington Officials, the betters riding along side by side with the great unwashed. Think of what the government is saving on plane fares.
Biden finally did something I liked.

 

[USincognito]

If food and energy are added to inflation calculations (which do include shelter), the rate over the last 20 years goes up dramatically. Look at the price increase for gas:
View attachment 340583
is all this a "vast right-wing conspiracy"? Pretty sure the statistics speak for themselves

Hmm. Interesting that you chose a graph that ended in 2022 instead of today. Also, I checked up on how much that $3.25 gas in 2008 would be in todays dollars. It would be $4.30 which is even higher than the $4 high mark in 2022 and gas now is at $3.

 

[QvQ]

Hmm. Interesting that you chose a graph that ended in 2022 instead of today. Also, I checked up on how much that $3.25 gas in 2008 would be in todays dollars. It would be $4.30 which is even higher than the $4 high mark in 2022 and gas now is at $3.

Diesel went up to $4.54 in 2008. If you have anything, a truck delivered it. That spiked inflation fast and furious as diesel was fairly cheap, always cheaper than gasoline.
As a conspiracy theory, that run up in price was blamed on the middle eastern producers. But they claimed it was market manipulation by the big US money funds and was done to influence and interfere in the 2008 election.