Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Aussie Pete]

They failed on both counts. They didn't protect their own and now they are endangering them further by dealing with their enemy in a manner which is losing them friends.

OK, what is your plan? How do you propose to deal with Hamas? Or would you prefer to see Israel cease to exist as a nation and 6 million more Jews put to death?

 

[Bradskii]

OK, what is your plan? How do you propose to deal with Hamas? Or would you prefer to see Israel cease to exist as a nation and 6 million more Jews put to death?

Don't be nonsensical. I've already said that I agree with a multi national peace keeping force as you suggested.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

My solution is simple. Israel withdraws completely and the UN sends in forces to control Gaza and protect Israel 100% from Hamas' aggression. Israel goes back to a peaceful existence while the UN runs around in circles trying to do the impossible. I'd buy a bag of popcorn to watch that show.

The problem is, Hamas is just one of Iran's proxies. Hezbollah (and maybe even Houthis) are a much bigger threat. Iran's plan was to attack Israel with all it's proxies, Hamas jumped the gun as they wanted all the glory to themselves. I have no idea what should be done, but as a Biblical Christian I know how it will end.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

You said that millions supported Hamas. That is patently wrong. They are supporting Palestinians.

A quick internet search:

PA senior official Jabril Rajub: "The events of October 7 were a natural reaction to oppression. The occupation and its crimes are responsible for the incident.
The action was part of the Palestinian war of defense and the next outbreak will take place in the West Bank."
And to end with a message of unity:
"Hamas is an integral part of the political fabric. The current campaign is the beginning of unity with the aim of establishing a Palestinian state on all Palestinian territories"
Rajub, a senior minister was a star in the "Partners Campaign" of the Geneva Initiative!
What Rajub is hinting is that the military force of the Palestinian authority (that America so diligently helped build and fund) might do to Israelis near the West Bank what Hamas did to Israelis near Gaza.

Michigan Imam Usama Abdulghani: “October 7th [Hamas' massacre] was a day of God. It was a miracle. We thank Allah for making it possible.”

Thai hostage negotiator: 'Hamas was justified in taking hostages.'

Meet Sira Rego, Spain's new Minister of Youth and Children.
On October 7th, while Hamas terrorists were murdering and raping Israeli youths at a music festival, massacring families and targeting children, she legitimized it, stating that Hamas had “a right to resist.”

The cruelty of the Gazans, 27/11
In the last few hours, a heated debate began on the Gazan networks regarding the deal. Quite a few Gazans oppose the release of the Israeli hostages and call on Hamas to "guard the important assets".
A shocking announcement circulated on the networks reads: "They are not allowed to leave Gaza", with the picture of Shiri Biebs and her children.

Dallas, TX - one of the males seen today holding up antisemitic signage & wearing a swastika armband in front of a Synagogue has been identified as Barry Young, 25, of Plano Texas.
Young appears to be member of the 'Goyim Defense Legue' (GDL) and operates on GAB under the screen name 'Baby Face'.

The monthly Harvard/Harris survey conducted in the wake of the Hamas-perpetrated massacre of over 1,400 Israelis on October 7 has good news and bad news for those who look upon this act of mass murder of Jews with horror and contempt. In the good news column, the overwhelming majority of respondents believe the U.S. is justified in branding Hamas a “terrorist group,” believe it is correct to call the attack “genocidal,” do not think the slaughter was justified, and side with Israel in its war against Hamas. The bad news is, however, impossible to dismiss as inconsequential.

Younger Americans, aged 18 to 24, disagree with their elders. This demographic is split almost down the middle when asked if the slaughter of senior citizens, the rape of young women, the murder of children, and the immolation of whole families in their homes was justified. Indeed, a slight majority of respondents in this age group said the butchery could be “justified by the grievance of Palestinians.” What’s more, only a bare majority of this demographic backs Israel in this conflict. Forty-eight percent said they side not with Palestinians but explicitly with “Hamas” in this war.

So yes, many defend Hamas, and/or try to justify their actions.

Palestinian citizens working in Israel provided Hamas intel on Israeli citizens. Palestinian citizens were involved in the massacre on Oct 7th. "Uninvolved" they tell us, right? So read this story carefully. One of the abductees who was held for almost 50 days in the attic of a house, says he was held by a UNRWA teacher! This is a father of ten children who locked the abductee in the attic, hardly provided him with food and did not provide him with medicine. And that's not all! In another case, another abductee was held captive by a Gazan doctor. He held one of the abductees captive and at the same time continued to provide care to the children. These are not uninvolved! These are terrorists for everything. They were there at the massacre on Saturday and it turns out that they were an integral part of the captives holding of hundreds of abductees, including women and children.
Palestinians also teach their children to hate and kill the Jews. That's normal right?

As I said, firstly I want Hamas to release all the abductees, surrender and face punishment for their crime. And leave Israel alone. Sadly, I do not see that happening.

 

[o_mlly]

Yeh let's just wait until Israel has killed a load more Palestinians and then let's rig the later investigation so they are declared innocent. I'm sure that's the morally right thing to do. Or Biden could find some backbone and tell Netanyahu enough is enough - you cannot kill an idea with bullets but you can kill it with a better idea - a just resolution giving dignity to all the people who live in the region.

What better idea do you have in mind that would convince Hamas to stop murdering Jews and surrender to Israel?

 

[o_mlly]

I agree with a multi national peace keeping force as you suggested.

I think a peace keeping force presumes that peace precedes their presence. If multi-national means a coalition of Muslim countries sending their sons and daughters into the conflict in Gaza to attain that peace, then such an idea has possibilities.

History tells us that until an unjust aggressor is vanquished that peace is impossible. Let the Muslims police their own criminals.

 

[Robban]

The problem is, Hamas is just one of Iran's proxies. Hezbollah (and maybe even Houthis) are a much bigger threat. Iran's plan was to attack Israel with all it's proxies, Hamas jumped the gun as they wanted all the glory to themselves. I have no idea what should be done, but as a Biblical Christian I know how it will end.

You know how it will end?

Best keep it under your hat.

"He who knows does not tell,
he who tells does not know."

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

You know how it will end?

Best keep it under your hat.

"He who knows does not tell,
he who tells does not know."

God is clear how it will end, I don't understand why you made this comment

 

[Robban]

God is clear how it will end, I don't understand why you made this comment

Jacob ascended to the chamber of the Messiah and asked when he would come,
he was told.

Jacob hurried to tell his children, but was hindered from spilling the beans, and talked of other things instead.

Thereof the quote.

 

[Vanellus]

They failed on both counts. They didn't protect their own and now they are endangering them further by dealing with their enemy in a manner which is losing them friends.

and creating more anger and recruiting more people for Hamas. It doesn't take much imagination to work out how this bombardment affects those under (often literally) it e.g. just replace Gaza with Ukraine and Israel with Russia.

 

[expos4ever]

If hamas had not attacked Israel, Israel would not be in Gaza. It is as simple as that. This war is the responsibility of hamas as are all the casualties.

How can anyone believe such an absurd claim? Like others, you appear to be defending the view that because Gazan terrorists started the present conflict, Israel bears no responsibility for the nature of their response.

That is, of course, a position that cannot be taken seriously.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Except their airport was blown up, and they had no access to the sea and were surrounded by barbed wire and regulated heavily etc?

So vote them out

Ridiculous claim, when they have mass murdered civilians for many weeks now.

Proof?

? Communist saying I think that they may have (like many other folks) adopted

Proof?

Normal people do not mass murder civilians

Let the ones bombing civilians be silent and not make foolish demands.

It's a foolish demand for Hamas to quit attacking Israel and let the hostages go? I'm done with you. You are obviously unable to grasp the simplest logic.

 

[Aussie Pete]

How can anyone believe such an absurd claim? Like others, you appear to be defending the view that because Gazan terrorists started the present conflict, Israel bears no responsibility for the nature of their response.

That is, of course, a position that cannot be taken seriously.

I'm 72. I have rarely come across such stupidity as yours and the others who are clueless as to the nature of the Gaza conflict. None of you bleeding hearts have come up with an alternative to what Israel is doing. You conveniently ignore the facts of the situation, that's if you've even bothered to find out anything.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I think a peace keeping force presumes that peace precedes their presence. If multi-national means a coalition of Muslim countries sending their sons and daughters into the conflict in Gaza to attain that peace, then such an idea has possibilities.

History tells us that until an unjust aggressor is vanquished that peace is impossible. Let the Muslims police their own criminals.

How ignorant can you be? What Muslim nation will send peacekeepers to Israel? Most of them don't recognise Israel as a state at all. Sure, flood Gaza with Muslim fighters. They will attack Israel alongside Hamas and the other Muslim murderers. Why not invite Iran along for the ride? That should work out fine - if you want to start WW3.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Don't be nonsensical. I've already said that I agree with a multi national peace keeping force as you suggested.

I was being sarcastic. What nation would contribute to a peace keeping force? And there has to be peace before you can keep it. I asked what practical solution there was. Peacekeeping may work (the UN's track record is not great) but it's not going to happen. Not one nation has suggested it. I doubt that anyone who matters frequents this forum. If they do, they have ignored my advice.

 

[truthpls]

You have a solution to the problem?

Of course. Jesus

Hint. Expecting Palestinians to accept a two state solution is not it. They have had a number of opportunities and refused to take them. They will only settle for a one state solution, one where Israel ceases to exist.

If the land cannot be shared and co habituated by the former residents then you are saying it is one or the other. Well, Israel has no right from God to be there until they are saved and He restores them to that land. The land will be theirs forever as promised, but not while they are enemies of God and in unbelief. So that leaves regular folks that need to share land. Work it out. Otherwise, if one neighbor is surrounded by many neighbors who don't accept their title to the property then it cannot end well.

If they get away with destroying Israel, Christians will be next. I'm 72 so it matters little to me personally. I do care about my children and the next generation. Communism is rare these days. Useful idiots abound. "Queers for Palestine"? Muslims hate homosexuality and cheerfully kills gays. Maybe you should go visit Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq or Iran. You should make sure you tell everyone that you are a Christian. I doubt you'd get out of the airport alive.

I guess Christians have not been preaching in all the world and making converts of all men enough. They need to work on that. If Christians support the wanton slaughter of their people in Gaza, how would you imagine that they would embrace Christianity??

 

[truthpls]

It's a foolish demand for Hamas to quit attacking Israel and let the hostages go? I'm done with you. You are obviously unable to grasp the simplest logic.

Yes it is about as foolish as Hamas demanding Israel lay down their arms and vacate the country.

 

[rjs330]

I mean, you guys really have to stop doing this. Honestly. Seriously, just stop.

Why? It's an important piece to this. All stopping does is remove focus from where it should be. You have to have perspective on who started this. If you don't compare you can't figure out who the real bad guy is and what needs to be done about it.

 

[expos4ever]

I'm 72. I have rarely come across such stupidity as yours and the others who are clueless as to the nature of the Gaza conflict. None of you bleeding hearts have come up with an alternative to what Israel is doing. You conveniently ignore the facts of the situation, that's if you've even bothered to find out anything.

You want to talk about stupidity? All right, let's talk about stupidity. The textbook definition of stupidity would be to argue that agent B is relieved all responsibilities for their actions just because agent A provoked agent B.

 

[expos4ever]

You conveniently ignore the facts of the situation, that's if you've even bothered to find out anything.

Please explain precisely how pointing out the idiocy of arguing that Israel is automatically relieved of all responsibilities for their reactions simply because Hamas instigated the war constitutes evidence of "ignoring the facts of the situation"?

I can see no way out for you on this. The simple and obvious truth is that no one person or country is automatically relieved of responsibility for their actions just because another person or country or group has committed a horrible crime against them.

No reasonable person would hold such a view. And what's more, challenging such a view has nothing whatever to do with the matter of the "facts of a particular situation".

It is instead a general, and presumably universal, moral principle: you don't get to do whatever you want to do just because you have been aggrieved.