• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Did Men Really Walk On The Moon?

  • Yes

    Votes: 87 84.5%
  • No. But all other space missions are real.

    Votes: 2 1.9%
  • No. And other space missions are fake too.

    Votes: 14 13.6%

  • Total voters
    103

Divide

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2017
2,577
1,230
63
Columbus
✟96,221.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Does anybody really think that God would ever let us get loose into the cosmos like Star Trek or something? No way.

I didnt vote on the poll. I didnt see a choice for my view which is,

No, but some of the other space missions have been real.
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
42,075
22,683
US
✟1,724,951.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I am inclined to believe that we did not put men on the moon. I watched a NASA video with some nasa official in uniform talking about we do not have the technology to go through the belt yet. SO if we dont have the technology now then we didnt have it in 1969.

They dont care that people now know it was a lie to upstage the Russians. Sputnik scared them so they cooked up a lie.

But that NASA guy looked very credible.
We don't currently have that technology, no. We once had the technology, now we don't. We don't currently have any Saturn 5-power rockets lying around, for instance.

In the early 80s, when I was on the staff of the Strategic Air Command office that managed the SR-71 reconnaissance aircraft, it was rather grating to realize we no longer had the technology to build any more copies of an aircraft that had originally been build in the early 60s. The planes we had then would be all we'd ever have because all the original tooling had been destroyed, all the original engineers were retired or dead. It would have taken another decade to re-engineer and re-tool...and re-learn a lot of lessons.

We know such a thing is possible, but we'd have to re-engineer it all over again...kind of like the way we had to re-invent concrete after forgetting how the Romans did it.

Edit: Something similar happened when the conservation-minded US government in the 70s mandated low-volume toilets. The then-current toilets had been designed to flush cleanly with 5 gallons of water. That was not a matter of just volume, but also weight. Over the course of the first half of the 20th century, toilet bowl designers had developed optimum venturi designs that depended on both the volume and weight of the water as it flushed.

But the first low-volume toilets in the 70s flushed terribly because they merely put low-volume tanks on top of the traditional venturis. It was so bad that for several years there was a hot black market of Canadian toilets, because Canada had not yet passed a similar law. But the old designers were all dead, so it took over 20 years to re-engineer new venturis that flush well with a low volume of water.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Divide

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2017
2,577
1,230
63
Columbus
✟96,221.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
We don't currently have that technology, no. We once had the technology, now we don't. We don't currently have any Saturn 5-power rockets lying around, for instance.

In the early 80s, when I was on the staff of the Strategic Air Command office that managed the SR-71 reconnaissance aircraft, it was rather grating to realize we no longer had the technology to build any more copies of an aircraft that had originally been build in the early 60s. The planes we had then would be all we'd ever have because all the original tooling had been destroyed, all the original engineers were retired or dead. It would have taken another decade to re-engineer and re-tool...and re-learn a lot of lessons.

We know such a thing is possible, but we'd have to re-engineer it all over again...kind of like the way we had to re-invent concrete after forgetting how the Romans did it.

Yeah I heard that too. We had technology and lost it. That sounds pretty thin to me. I watched a NASA guy say we didnt have the technology then and we dont have it nw but theyre working on it. So they can send men to mars.

If it was that easy to shield the craft from radiation in the 60's then they wouldnt still be working on it now lol. So why would they even lie about it? Oh I don't know billions and billions of dollars in funding maybe? Just a thought.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: JacksBratt
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
15,511
8,173
50
The Wild West
✟756,139.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
I am inclined to believe that we did not put men on the moon. I watched a NASA video with some nasa official in uniform talking about we do not have the technology to go through the belt yet. SO if we dont have the technology now then we didnt have it in 1969.

They dont care that people now know it was a lie to upstage the Russians. Sputnik scared them so they cooked up a lie.

But that NASA guy looked very credible.

Forgive me, but that makes no sense. Firstly, I doubt you understood the NASA presentation; NASA officials do not wear uniforms, by the way, only astronauts, security guards, and workers at the launch complexes wear uniforms. And the Van Allen Belts, which I assume you are referring to, are plural. So my guess is you saw something you did not understand; perhaps whoever was speaking was talking about manned flight beyond the Asteroid Belt, which lies between Mars and Jupiter, and we do not have the technology yet to efficiently take a manned spacecraft that far out.

He might also have been referring to the geomagnetosphere, which encapsulates the Earth and the Moon, and is a powerful electromagnetic field generated by a dynamo effect from the Earth’s molten iron core. This field shields us from most of the radiation emitted from solar flares. One technical headache for spaceflight to Mars or other planets in the solar system outside the geomagnetosphere is the need to protect the crew in some manner from the radiation they would be exposed to in the event of a solar flare. There are a few theories on how best to do this and it is not inherently impossible, but it is an engineering challenge.

However, the geomagnetosphere would not affect lunar flights because it is large enough to protect the Moon as well as the Earth.

Also, lastly, and most importantly, the claims that the videos of the lunar landings and other videos from the surface of the moon were faked in a soundstage have been thoroughly debunked.

If you look at the engineering that was done, the extreme cost of building the Saturn V rocket, and other development vehicles, such as the aircraft used to train astronauts to fly the Lunar Lander, and so on, makes the idea that the lunar missions were faked completely nonsensical.

The Soviets for their part did try to build a rocket, which was actually in many respects similar to SpaceX’s massive Starship rockets which are still being experimentally launched, however, the Soviet Luna rocket was a failure, due to the inability to maintain quaility control to keep all of its tiny engines operating. The Saturn V’s F1 engines were massive, and few in number, five on the lower stage, and then smaller engines on the second stage, and these engines were beyond the ability of the Soviet Union to manufacture, but they were extremely simple, and on only one manned spaceflight was their an engine failure (specifically the center engine on Apollo 13’s second stage, which was not a problem as it was the central engine, and so all they had to do was to run the other four engines longer). This incident did not contribute to the near-fatal incident that the crew with extreme resourcefulness and divine blessing was just able to survive, where Apollo 13 had a defective oxygen tank explode, crippling the Service Module required to keep the Command Module functioning, requiring the crew to use the Lunar Lander as a sort of life boat to survive the orbit of the moon and the return to Earth.

That incident by the way further disproves the idea that the missions were faked, since NASA would have no point in embarassing itself in such a manner if it were propaganda. Indeed the Soviets actively tried to cover up incidents of lethal malfunctions that killed some of their early launches.

Also, regarding Sputnik, we had exceeded that by a substantial margin well before the attempt to get to the moon got underway; the Mercury 7 program matched the pioneering spaceflight of the Vostok spacecraft flown by Yuri Gagarin and other first generation cosmonauts. Also, by the way, it is believed that Yuri Gagarin secretly practiced Christianity, being a member of the hidden part of the Russian Orthodox Church, the “Catacomb Church” as it was known, as opposed to the public churches who were extremely restricted in what they could do (for example, they could not catechize the youth).

Speaking of Russian spacecraft, the idea of this being propaganda due to the spacerace was further disproven by the Apollo-Skylab missions, after Congress cut the funding for further Apollo missions to the moon, and also the Apollo-Soyus Test Project, which was the final use of that beautiful spacecraft. Attention then turned to the Space Shuttle. The Soviets did manage to build a functioning rival space shuttle that was in some respects such as payload superior, but it only made one unmanned flight before the collapse of the Soviet Union, that being the Buran. This was due to the military applications the Space Shuttle had, which the Soviets wanted, specifically its ability to capture and repair satellites and launch spy satellites on obscure and difficult to track orbits. There were several classified Space Shuttle missions in the mid 1980s and we still do not know what the purpose of these missions was, but hopefully they will soon be declassified and that important aspect of space history will be preserved.
 
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
15,511
8,173
50
The Wild West
✟756,139.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
We don't currently have that technology, no. We once had the technology, now we don't. We don't currently have any Saturn 5-power rockets lying around, for instance.

In the early 80s, when I was on the staff of the Strategic Air Command office that managed the SR-71 reconnaissance aircraft, it was rather grating to realize we no longer had the technology to build any more copies of an aircraft that had originally been build in the early 60s. The planes we had then would be all we'd ever have because all the original tooling had been destroyed, all the original engineers were retired or dead. It would have taken another decade to re-engineer and re-tool...and re-learn a lot of lessons.

We know such a thing is possible, but we'd have to re-engineer it all over again...kind of like the way we had to re-invent concrete after forgetting how the Romans did it.

Actually we do have the technology once more, in the form of the SLS being used for the Artemis mission. It completed an unmanned flight, and preparations are being made for a manned flight at some point next year, which will return us to the moon.

Additionally SpaceX is making slow but steady progress with their Starship program, which would also provide a very heavy lift option which would enable even more Lunar explanation.

The Van Allen belts are not the problem; we never really lost the Saturn V technology, but we might have lost the manufacturing capability to build liquid fueled rocket engines as large as the F1. However, we probably don’t need engines that large; the most recent SpaceX flight managed to perform with all engines functioning (it was a different malfunction that caused the vehicle loss). This is in contrast to the failed Soviet Luna spacecraft, where engine failures on the large numbers of small engines resulted in extremely bad performance, with one Luna rocket losing guidance control and actually crashing into its own launch pad at the Baikal Cosmodrome, destroying it with energies comparable to some of the minaturized tactical nuclear weapons we developed in the late 1950s, like about half a kiloton of TNT, or something in that range. It was quite a disaster. This is why rockets are supposed to have Flight Termination Systems, so if they do have a guidance failure they can be blown up in the air rather than going out of control and crashing into the ground.

Famously the Flight Termination System was used after the Challenger explosion, where the External Fuel Tank and the Orbiter were lost, but the two Solid Rocket Boosters (one of which had a failed O-ring which had caused the accident, basically by burning a hole in the External Fuel Tank), continued to fly, out of control, and so the USAF officer who is stationed at Launch Control at Cape Canaveral (which handles the initial launch, before transferring control to Mission Control in Houston) was required to use the Flight Termination System to blow up the two Solid Rocket Boosters, lest they had continued out of control and had crashed into South Florida.
 
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
15,511
8,173
50
The Wild West
✟756,139.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Yeah I heard that too. We had technology and lost it. That sounds pretty thin to me. I watched a NASA guy say we didnt have the technology then and we dont have it nw but theyre working on it. So they can send men to mars.

If it was that easy to shield the craft from radiation in the 60's then they wouldnt still be working on it now lol. So why would they even lie about it? Oh I don't know billions and billions of dollars in funding maybe? Just a thought.

Right, but that happens to be false. There is no issue in shielding space crews from the radiation in the Van Allen belts. That technology is simply not lost.

The only thing we might have lost are steel works capable of building the massive F1 engines that were used to launch the spacecraft.

By the way, since NASA spent the billions of dollars in funding on spacecraft the launches of which were viewed by millions, and also the recovery of the capsules, and since independent observers were able to track the spacecraft during their journey to the moon, the idea that we faked it is pretty…shaky, to put it mildly.

Indeed its not shaky, it is patently absurd.

The entire reason this conspiracy theory exists is probably an accidental result of the science fiction film Capricorn One, the plot of which involved NASA faking a manned mission to Mars after they discovered, too late in the project to cancel or delay, that their spacecraft’s subcontracted lifesupport system was defective and unsuitable for the mission, so NASA was trying to fake the first Mars flight in order to get funding to pursue subsequent flights with working hardware. The plot of the film then revolved around the three man crew having to avoid being murdered, after the capsule they were supposed to be flying in burned up on re-entry, an event which in the film was witnessed and which NASA could not deny.

People then took the plot of that science fiction film - which is a good one, by the way - and assumed that because Stanley Kubrick’s lunar sequences in 2001 are so good, that he must have faked the actual Lunar Landing, which completely ignores the numerous obvious errors and earthbound effects in 2001. For example, in Kubrick’s film, it is extremely obvious that the astronauts are not walking around in the low lunar gravity, which was so low that in reality astronauts were able to hop around in their spacesuits, which are too heavy to even permit standing in on Earth, in the low Lunar gravity. Also Kubrick got the appearance of the Earth wrong (compare its appearance in 2001 with its appearance from the ISS, the Space Shuttle, and the famous “Blue Marble” photograph, and other actual photos, and also, much to the embarrassment of Arthur C. Clarke, who developed the story for 2001, the starfield was inaccurate in several of the space sequences.

What really upsets me about this is Buzz Aldrin is a Presbyterian deacon, and after Apollo 11’s Lunar Module successfully landed in the Sea of Tranquility in 1969, his first act was to take communion from a special kit prepared at his church and by NASA before flight. I love the fact that one of the first things to happen on the Moon was the reception of the Holy Eucharist.
 
Upvote 0

Divide

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2017
2,577
1,230
63
Columbus
✟96,221.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Forgive me, but that makes no sense. Firstly, I doubt you understood the NASA presentation; NASA officials do not wear uniforms, by the way, only astronauts, security guards, and workers at the launch complexes wear uniforms. And the Van Allen Belts, which I assume you are referring to, are plural. So my guess is you saw something you did not understand; perhaps whoever was speaking was talking about manned flight beyond the Asteroid Belt, which lies between Mars and Jupiter, and we do not have the technology yet to efficiently take a manned spacecraft that far out.

You're right, it wasnt a traditional uniform. It was a blue shirt with the NASA patch on it. But it seemed pretty uniformish to me but forgive me if I were not precise enough for you. But his back drop in the video was a someones basement, it looked like NASA to me.

I understood the man perfectly fine. He was talking about the van allen belt and not the asteroid belt. He used the term "radiation" several times. Nice of you to presume that I would be that stupid, lol.

With all the technology available to us today, and we have to figure that the Military is 50 years ahead of the masses in technology. Yet, we dont have the technology to penetrate the van allen belt and survive. The only thing that makes sense is, we can not pass the van allen belt and it was put in place by God to keep us near home? Maybe it's not in God plans for us to become Star Trek and it's going to be over too soon for us to have time to reach to the stars.

God gave them the blueprint that would provide free energy for everyone on earth. They didnt use it for that. They made a giant gun out of it instead to kill people with.
I hear they they have an earquake ray gun that they can shoot from a satellite into the ground or ocean and start an earthquake.

Maybe NASA gave them the funding to make the gun? Scripture says that Damascus will be destroyed as a city in an instant. Maybe it will be a nuke from Israel or maybe a 12.5 richter scale earthquake? That would do it too.
 
Upvote 0

Divide

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2017
2,577
1,230
63
Columbus
✟96,221.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Actually we do have the technology once more, in the form of the SLS being used for the Artemis mission. It completed an unmanned flight, and preparations are being made for a manned flight at some point next year, which will return us to the moon.

So we dont have it yet. We dont "have it" until after real men go through it and come back again. Then we have it!
 
Upvote 0

Divide

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2017
2,577
1,230
63
Columbus
✟96,221.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Right, but that happens to be false. There is no issue in shielding space crews from the radiation in the Van Allen belts. That technology is simply not lost.

The only thing we might have lost are steel works capable of building the massive F1 engines that were used to launch the spacecraft.

By the way, since NASA spent the billions of dollars in funding on spacecraft the launches of which were viewed by millions, and also the recovery of the capsules, and since independent observers were able to track the spacecraft during their journey to the moon, the idea that we faked it is pretty…shaky, to put it mildly.

Indeed its not shaky, it is patently absurd.

Ok. I respect your view, but since I'm (trying) to be a Christian I have to believe God's word and I do. And scripture says, the enemy's primary weapon is deception. I dunno how many sci fi books you have read or mysteries where it seems one way for the entire book and then right at the end...the (Gasp!) truth comes out and it was something else altogether.

So if they had the technology to deceive the world about the moon landing in 1969 then with today's technology should be able to do it effortlessly, or fake it even better than last time. You can't trust anything that you hear nowaydays and only half of what you see! So with the CGI we should be "seeing" a manned mars mission very soon! Right? But they're too busy trying to start WW III instead.

It says in scripture about the rapture that as it was in the days of Noah so shall it be when the Lord returns to rapture us away. Meaning it was business as usual and people doing business, getting marrried, chasing dollars all the way up until it started raining for the first time on earth. And that's how it will happen with the rapture I tink. It is business as usual right now in all countries. I think tis earth is ripe for a rapture any time.
 
Upvote 0

Divide

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2017
2,577
1,230
63
Columbus
✟96,221.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
That's not what he said.

Well, that's the way I took it, given the entirety of the somewhat short video. You sound like you have watched the same video? I forget the name of it, I cant find it. Can you? Post it and we all can listen to the man and go from there.
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
42,075
22,683
US
✟1,724,951.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Actually we do have the technology once more, in the form of the SLS being used for the Artemis mission. It completed an unmanned flight, and preparations are being made for a manned flight at some point next year, which will return us to the moon.
[/QUOTE]

Noted.
Additionally SpaceX is making slow but steady progress with their Starship program, which would also provide a very heavy lift option which would enable even more Lunar explanation.

The Van Allen belts are not the problem; we never really lost the Saturn V technology, but we might have lost the manufacturing capability to build liquid fueled rocket engines as large as the F1.
That's what I mean when I say we don't "have" the technology. We can have the knowledge, the science, but without the hardware, we don't have the technology. As an example, we can take something like flush riveting in aircraft or wide-bodied jets. Those weren't super secrets, but for many years the Soviets didn't have the ability to duplicate what was common practice in the US...they didn't have the technology. In the early 80s, it was funny to me that the Soviets were attempting to buy all the Speak-and-Spell toys could lay their hands on for voice warning indicators in their top-line fighter jets...because they didn't even have the technology to duplicate the voice chips. They had to cannibalize them. And for us...those were just toys.
So if they had the technology to deceive the world about the moon landing in 1969 then with today's technology should be able to do it effortlessly, or fake it even better than last time. You can't trust anything that you hear nowaydays and only half of what you see! So with the CGI we should be "seeing" a manned mars mission very soon! Right? But they're too busy trying to start WW III instead.
Your first proposition is in error. We did not have the technology to pull that deception in 1969.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Liturgist

Divide

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2017
2,577
1,230
63
Columbus
✟96,221.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Your first proposition is in error. We did not have the technology to pull that deception in 1969.

Maybe not. I'd bet even money thatthey do now though. I was reading some stuff that said some of the suff that they spary into the air has microscopic mettallic things in it that enables them to turn the sky into a movie screen and project anythng they want to up there. That's spooky but it sounds like something they might do. The art of deception is right out of the war book, every time, lol.

It is said by some, that we have a false flag event coming upon the world. It's going to be a hostile invasion from outerspace and the "Aliens" attack us. But the Aliens arent really Aliens, they are demonic. And they are not interplanetary or interstellar, they are interdimensional.

There are more UFO sightings now than ever. They are a common occurance all over the globe and are proliferating.. They have had plenty of time from 1947 Roswell to ack engineer and make an entire fleet of new UFO craft. So Aliens (demonic) will be in some crafts and the dark government will be in many of the others. It's not a real invasion from outer space, it's demonic and fake as it will be, the destruction and lives lost will be real. They have all their new weapons installed on them. Supposedly it will be so bad and so scary that mens hearts will be failing them for what has come upon them. Then I guess the world nations will fall in line with the NWO? Something like that.

Makes a man think about that next to last line in the Lord's Prayer...

Matthew 6:13
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.../KJV

I believe those words should be enough to turn away an Alien ship which draws close to me or mine. A word study on those words shows that the implication is all types of evil and of course, in Jesus name...Amen.

It might or might not be true, but at least if something like that does happen, I will know what it is and how to deal with it. In the name of Yeshua Hamashiach.
 
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
15,511
8,173
50
The Wild West
✟756,139.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
That's what I mean when I say we don't "have" the technology. We can have the knowledge, the science, but without the hardware, we don't have the technology. As an example, we can take something like flush riveting in aircraft or wide-bodied jets. Those weren't super secrets, but for many years the Soviets didn't have the ability to duplicate what was common practice in the US...they didn't have the technology. In the early 80s, it was funny to me that the Soviets were attempting to buy all the Speak-and-Spell toys could lay their hands on for voice warning indicators in their top-line fighter jets...because they didn't even have the technology to duplicate the voice chips. They had to cannibalize them. And for us...those were just toys.

To be fair in the case of Soviet aviation, I would note that widebodied aircraft don’t require anything special, and Sergei Ilyushin, who along with Andrei Tupolev and his son Alexei and also Migoyan, Sukhoi, Yakovlev, Antonov and Soloviev, was one of the great aviation designers of the Soviet Union, had a widebodied transport aircraft, the highly reliable Ilyushin Il-76, flying in the 1970s, and the Il-86 widebodied passenger airliner and its derivative, the Il-96 (the latest version of which, the Il-96-400, was recently rolled out, due to a need to restart the Russian aircraft industry due to foreign sanctions, since it had become highly dependent on the west since the fall of the Soviet Union). The Il-86 and 98 were both released in the course of the 1980s, and have had successful careers; for years the Il-86 operated charter flights from Russia and other former Soviet countries to tourist destinations, such as the beaches of Sharm-el-Sheikh in Sinai, something it was particularly good at, and Cubana de Aviacion has, for many years now, been flying the Il-96-300M from Europe to Cuba, without any accidents.

Also, the Soviets did produce the world’s first successful jetliner, the Tupolev Tu-104, which entered into service shortly after the De Havilland Comet, but unlike the Comet, the original version of which had to be grounded due to a design flaw Involving a navigation window (it was not the square windows along the side of the aircraft so much as it was a dorsal navigation window which was also square, which is where the fatigue cracking began, that resulted in explosive decompression of the aircraft), although once the problems with the Comet were fixed, the Comet 4 had a good service career, as did its military derivative, the Nimrod. However, the Tu-104 entered into service just a couple of years later, and remained in continuous passenger service with Aeroflot until around 1980, and had a reasonably good safety record, good enough for it to not have to be grounded due to a catastrophic design flaw (in which respect it was superior not only to the Comet but to the Lockheed L-188 Electra, the Douglas DC-10, and the Boeing 737 MAX, all three of which had very serious flaws; I would say on the whole the Tu-104, while not a brilliant design, was remarkably good, and deserves to be called the first successful jetliner in continuous passenger service). Likewise, Tupolev also built the Tu-114, which used the wings and counter-rotating turboprop engines of the Tu-95 bomber (the Russian equivalent of the B-52, about the same age and with similar performance), which was the largest and fastest propeller-driven passenger airliner ever built, flying as fast as many smaller regional jets and business jets, at speeds of around 500 MPH. The Tu-114 was also particularly beautiful.

Sergei Ilyushin also designed the Ilyushin Il-62, which was the first long range Soviet jet airliner, and which along with the Tu-154 (which was a particularly rugged trijet with good performance on nasty airfields), formed the backbone of the international fleet of Aeroflot and the airlines of many other Warsaw Pact countries including LOT Polish Airlines and TAROM. The Il-62 was particularly brilliant for the resourcefulness of Sergei Ilyushin: he knew that Soviet technology was lacking in certain areas, such as actuators for slats, and also hydraulic controls in general, so he designed the Il-62 to fly with manual controls, which is impressive given its size (which is comparable to the Boeing 707-320 or the Douglas DC-8-52 and -62 models, and the Vickers Super VC-10, which used the same four rear mounted engine design as the Il-62, which was particularly good for passenger comfort in terms of noise reduction). Furthermore, to get around the lack of a good way to equip the aircraft with slats, Ilyushin and his engineers designed a unique “sawtooth” wing which I think is particularly brilliant, because it performs equally well in the slow speed regime of takeoff and landing and the high speed regime of cruising at altitude, and as a result of doing that, the only hydraulic actuators the Il-62 required were for the flaps, which was simple enough, and for the landing gear, so it was really quite impressive. And Il-62 aircraft had an excellent safety record, particularly by Soviet standards (given the … variable … quality of Aeroflot pilots and mechanics during the Soviet union era, although to be fair, one also has to consider that Aeroflot did perform remarkably well considering it was the world’s largest airline both in fleet size and passenger metrics.

Indeed one thing a lot of people are unaware of concerning Aeroflot is that in the Brezhnev era, with detente, Aeroflot became a very popular way of flying internationally from the US and Europe to destinations in Asia, such as Japan, Hong Kong, Thailand, and so on. Aeroflot offered free stopovers in London, and their schedules were optimized for efficient connections in London and Moscow, which formed hubs on their international network. Even American tourists not traveling to the Soviet union would fly Aeroflot. Indeed, in the mid 1970s, a trio of Americans who were traveling in Amsterdam and were recruited to serve as drug mules, to bring heroin to Amsterdam from Bangkok, made the mistake of taking Aeroflot, and were busted by the KGB (which aside from its espionage and surveillance activities, were also in charge of border security) at customs in Moscow where they were to connect to their return flight to Amsterdam. This was not a great moment for the US; I find it very offensive that a trio of hippies decided to try to smuggle drugs to Western Europe through the Soviet Union in the 1970s, and so they were deservedly sent to a labor camp. One of them however has appeared on “Locked Up Abroad”, the excellent and often terrifying British documentary series, where he claims he was assisted in escaping from the labor camp and back to the US, and it seems possible. In general, this incident is one of only a handful of incidents in history where I would say one could agree with the KGB on ethical grounds; it’s a bit bizarre to think of the KGB as an ally of the US in the war on drugs, but that was how things were back then (unless I suppose the drugs were headed towards high ranking party officials, but to be fair, in my research of Soviet history, I am unaware of that being a common vice among members of the Politburo, rather, like everyone else in the Soviet union, they seemed to drink insane amounts of vodka).

So while it is true that there were things the Soviets were unable to replicate in terms of our technology, there were other times when occasionally they were ahead of us, like with the Tu-104 or Tu-114, or with the wing design on the Il-62. And few aircraft have ever been as good as the Tu-134 and Tu-154, and the Antonov An-2, the An-24 and the Ilyushin Il-18, when it comes to landing on poor quality runways.

The Soviets also manufactured under license the Douglas DC-3; the Soviet version was the Lisunov Li-2, and it was basically equivalent to the DC-3 in terms of quality. This helped them get things going with their aircraft industry in terms of passenger aviation after some ridiculous failures in the 1930s, where under pressure from Stalin massive aircraft were built that looked impressive but barely were capable of flight, but under Stalin its amazing they were able to build anything at all, due to the interference he caused. For example, for the first Soviet strategic bomber, he demanded an exact replica of the B-29 based on expropriated plans, even insisting on the reproduction of some incorrect riveting.

It was because of these early aircraft, which were direct copies, authorized in the case of the Lisunov Li-2 but unauthorized otherwise, of Western types, that the Soviet designers were accused of stealing Western designs, but in most subsequent cases it was unfounded, and so, or instance, the Tu-154 is only visually similiar to the Boeing 727 in that it shares the same configuration with it and the Hawker Siddeley Trident (which Boeing engineers had a chance to see the designs of, while considering a partnership with Hawker Siddeley, before designing the 727, which sounds like industrial espionage, but actually the Trident and the 727 were quite different under the hood, and I understand why Boeing went with their own design - the Tridents suffered from being too small, and also the final Trident, the Trident 3B, actually had to add a fourth engine in the tail for use during takeoffs to produce extra thrust, which is unimpressive compared to the 727 and the Tu-154; the Vickers VC-10 on the other hand was kind of glorious, as were the Sud-Aviation Caravelle and the BAC 1-11 and the Fokker F-28 and F-100, the four European jetliners made before Airbus was a thing which managed to land significant orders from airlines in the US.
 
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
15,511
8,173
50
The Wild West
✟756,139.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Your first proposition is in error. We did not have the technology to pull that deception in 1969.

Indeed so. We didn’t even really know what Earth looked like from deep space with certainty until the Lunar missions, or what the surface of the moon was like, until the Apollo 8 flight and the Apollo 11 landing. And as good as the special effects in 2001, Star Wars, and the 1980s Star Trek films were, one can tell they are special effects (particularly in Star Wars and Star Trek, since spacecraft cannot actually maneuver the way they were depicted).
 
Upvote 0

Bobber

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2004
7,010
3,441
✟243,446.00
Faith
Non-Denom
I believe so. But at the same time I find it a bit odd that it seems it was only possible to do over 50 years ago, and no one has been able to do since then.
Who says it's not possible to do today? The problem is building ships that protect life are very expensive. The way they did things in the 60s would have to be all upgraded but what is the motivation and reason to send men to the moon now?
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Liturgist

ozso

Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
27,464
14,993
PNW
✟960,615.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Who says it's not possible to do today? The problem is building ships that protect life are very expensive. The way they did things in the 60s would have to be all upgraded but what is the motivation and reason to send men to the moon now?
People who give all of the reasons why there's never been a manned space mission outside of earth's orbit for 50 years, make it out to be impossible or put another way it's not going to happen because because because.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: The Liturgist