Anyone notice that many people are scientifically illiterate

[Divide]

That's a logical argument. If you are a YEC then you discount any evidence that contradicts that view (I can't understand how it's possible to do that, but that isn't a concern re this post).

'Dr. Wise earned his BA in geology from the University of Chicago, and his MA and PhD degrees in paleontology from Harvard University.' Kurt Wise, Paleontologist

Now you don't get a BA in geology or degrees in paleontology by writing papers based on the proposal that the planet is 6,000 years old. It would be like someone who is a flat earther getting a degree in orbital mechanics. Or a creationist getting a PhD in evolutionary physiology. It's literally not possible.

He wrote papers and presented work and passed exams by giving answers that he believed to be completely wrong. In other words, he lied. In other words he was intellectually dishonest.

That's what I initially said, that 90% of the scientists lie because they have to. Sometimes there is a whistleblower so like Scully, the truth is out there but it has to be sifted to get to it.

 

[Bradskii]

That's what I initially said, that 90% of the scientists lie because they have to. Sometimes there is a whistleblower so like Scully, the truth is out there but it has to be sifted to get to it.

He didn't have to lie.

What if AIG offered me a well paying job to write for them? Do I take it and lie through my teeth just so I can get a decent wage? Where's the integrity in that? Where's the intellectual honesty? How could I be trusted? You said yourself that you don't have to be dishonest. How come this guy gets a free pass?

 

[Astrid]

That's my post #94. I'm still not understanding you.



I can agree that no one can be scientifically literate completely because man doesnt know everything. We have lots of theories. So it sounds like what you are trying to say is, yec is dishonest or blind to scientific literacy?

So you are speaking from a totally secular view, correct? I'm fairly scientiffically literate and a yec also and I don't have to be dishonest to reconcile these many things within myself. When you look at something from only a secular view then it would make sense for you to see what you do. But to look at it from a spiritual viewpoint also only edifies and enhances understanding. I dont have to be dishonest about science because I believe in a young earth. There is a perfectly good explanation for that and it makes sense.

Wrong on all counts.
There's no sense continuing.

That's a logical argument. If you are a YEC then you discount any evidence that contradicts that view (I can't understand how it's possible to do that, but that isn't a concern re this post).

'Dr. Wise earned his BA in geology from the University of Chicago, and his MA and PhD degrees in paleontology from Harvard University.' Kurt Wise, Paleontologist

Now you don't get a BA in geology or degrees in paleontology by writing papers based on the proposal that the planet is 6,000 years old. It would be like someone who is a flat earther getting a degree in orbital mechanics. Or a creationist getting a PhD in evolutionary physiology. It's literally not possible.

He wrote papers and presented work and passed exams by giving answers that he believed to be completely wrong. In other words, he lied. In other words he was intellectually dishonest.

Way to miss it by a mile.
The QUOTE i posted is him saying that
all the evidence in the universe is to be
ignored in favour of what the bible seems
( to him ) to say.

He conceded ( being educated enough to know) that
yec has zero evidence.

But, he goes yec anyway.



Our hero of the opposition proved unable to see
the intellectual dishonesty there.

I must have asked 50 yecs the same thing.

None can see it.

Quite telling.

 

[Astrid]

Keeping it simple- it is impossible
to be intellectually honest,
scientifically lIterate, and a yec.

 

[Divide]

He didn't have to lie.

What if AIG offered me a well paying job to write for them? Do I take it and lie through my teeth just so I can get a decent wage? Where's the integrity in that? Where's the intellectual honesty? How could I be trusted? You said yourself that you don't have to be dishonest. How come this guy gets a free pass?

How come he gets a free pass? It's not my business. I don't know him.

 

[Divide]

Keeping it simple- it is impossible
to be intellectually honest,
scientifically lIterate, and a yec.

And yet, it happens.

 

[Astrid]

And yet, it happens.

Your claim is nonsense. You have no examples,
because it's impossible.

In Chinese culture its not hioourable to just
say things. Maybe it's ok in yours.

 

[partinobodycular]

I would think a good man would speak of his own responsibilities and integrity and all that stuff before questioning a group of people about their integrity,

Okay, so let me start by telling you about my integrity, it isn't dependent upon what some other person thinks, or what some group thinks, or what some church thinks, or heaven forbid... even upon what some God thinks. It's dependent upon what I think, or more specifically, it's dependent upon what that little voice inside me thinks. You know, that nagging little voice that tells you when something isn't right, even when practically everyone else is saying that it is.

To me that's integrity... the commitment to that still small voice, and it isn't born in a church, in fact quite often, and quite sadly, that's where it goes to die.

You speak of people who are afraid to question the establishment, out of fear that it may cost them their job, or the respect of their colleagues, but what of those who are afraid to question their pastor, or their church, or even their God? Because they've been told that it constitutes a lack of faith. So they push aside the doubts... they ignore that still, small voice... and they do what believers are supposed to do, they forfeit their integrity for the sake of what they've been told is salvation. How is that any less a lack of integrity?

I realize that this post is highly inflammatory... and I'm sorry. But you asked. All that I ask in return is that you give me as honest, and forthright of an answer as I've given you.

Thanks

 

[Aussie Pete]

Why did so many people die during Hurricane Katrina. It was not the Hurricane, it as the levies breaking. It was bad Engendering. The Romans build bridges across rivers that exist today and we have bridges built across much smaller bodies of water that collapse. Climate Change...over 90% of scientist believe it to be real but many people say the 90% are all liars. A member of the U.S. senate held a snow ball in his hand as proof of Global Warming being fake. Or its real but were not making it speed up. When a disaster is coming people run, a scientist looks for a solution. Global warming is real, Storms are increasing number and in strength, famine and drought are at a all time high, were speeding up the process, the polar Ice is melting, at the speed its melting all costal cities will be under water in 100 years. What are all the people who say its fake gonna say then...oh wait nothing they will be dead and the mess will be left for our grandkids and there kids to fix. I am not a scientist, I got a C in biology but I can read and listen to the words of many of the most intelligent men and woman today and I supposed to ignore them and listen to senator who holds snowball in his hand.

Many people are illiterate full stop. Terrible spelling, lack of punctuation, entirely the wrong word and poor grammar are commonplace. I'm far from perfect, but I know the difference between affect and effect, accept and except. Language is the basis of learning. What ever happened to logic and reason?

Scientists can blame themselves for community distrust. Where I live, there was a 12 year drought. The chief scientist for the state said that it would never rain again. So the state built a desalination plant. Almost the day it was commissioned, the drought broke. So much for science. The hysteria from the science community undermines their credibility. According to some doom and gloomers, we should all be sailing to work instead of driving.

You don't have to worry about climate change. The world will not last long enough.

Your argument is simplistic. Climate change has always been a feature of the earth's history. Much famine is caused by war and human induced poverty. You can't expect a starving family to care about proper land management. God put in place the ability to balance the climate. Man's short term greed destroys God's system. (By that I mean forests). Rulers of some of the poorest nations live in luxury while their people suffer.

 

[Astrid]

Okay, so let me start by telling you about my integrity, it isn't dependent upon what some other person thinks, or what some group thinks, or what some church thinks, or heaven forbid... even upon what some God thinks. It's dependent upon what I think, or more specifically, it's dependent upon what that little voice inside me thinks. You know, that nagging little voice that tells you when something isn't right, even when practically everyone else is saying that it is.

To me that's integrity... the commitment to that still small voice, and it isn't born in a church, in fact quite often, and quite sadly, that's where it goes to die.

You speak of people who are afraid to question the establishment, out of fear that it may cost them their job, or the respect of their colleagues, but what of those who are afraid to question their pastor, or their church, or even their God? Because they've been told that it constitutes a lack of faith. So they push aside the doubts... they ignore that still, small voice... and they do what believers are supposed to do, they forfeit their integrity for the sake of what they've been told is salvation. How is that any less a lack of integrity?

I realize that this post is highly inflammatory... and I'm sorry. But you asked. All that I ask in return is that you give me as honest, and forthright of an answer as I've given you.

Thanks

If facts don't suit someone maybe they need
to change rather than getting inflamed.

If what I said is too much forvthe forum to
handle they can kick me out, and gladly i'll go.


But I think the majority aren't afraid of the truth.

 

[Yttrium]

Scientists can blame themselves for community distrust.
...
You don't have to worry about climate change. The world will not last long enough.

There is irony in your post, considering how long certain Christians have been predicting imminent end times.

 

[Astrid]

There is irony in your post, considering how long certain Christians have been predicting imminent end times.

Your friend @Aussie Pete among them!

 

[BNR32FAN]

-
​

There is too much money in science for it to be trusted, plus much of science is government funded. Which inturn government is from satans kingdoms he possess.

“Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭13‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[sjastro]

Your friend @Aussie Pete among them!

It's ironic how this thread has turned into examples of scientific illiteracy.

 

[R.Weeks79]

Your friend @Aussie Pete among them!

The funny thing about the end times is Christ repeatedly says know one but the fathers knows the time. Personally when i think of end I think the end of all existence. The writers of Revelation had know understanding on how large the Universe is lol. For all that the bible says it does say the when of it. Our sun has another 5 billion years before it grows so large it engulfs earth. Odd are we got 10s of billions of years and everyone is obsessed with the end. And funny enough the world of star is not scientifically impossible. If everything went perfect we could be a type 1 civilization in a few hundred years. Humanity in the world of star trek is barley past type one. It is not impossible...know it is, the only way that world happens is if people start caring about the future and the only thing most people care about know matter what religion they are is themselves and there family and the world in 100 years does not matter to them.

 

[Aussie Pete]

There is irony in your post, considering how long certain Christians have been predicting imminent end times.

For sure. About 2,000 years, give or take. The difference now is that there are weapons that can turn humanity's clock back the the stone age. We have left the age of reason and entered the age of delusion. 40% of people on this forum deny that man landed on the moon. A large percentage of university students believe that the earth is flat. Homosexuals march in the street in support of a Muslim country. The same Muslims would kill them and believe that they are doing their god a favour. These people will be running Western nations in the next few years. No wonder Americans vote for geriatrics. The alternatives are pretty grim. I'm 72 btw. I've seen a lot over my liftetime.

 

[Astrid]

For sure. About 2,000 years, give or take. The difference now is that there are weapons that can turn humanity's clock back the the stone age. We have left the age of reason and entered the age of delusion. 40% of people on this forum deny that man landed on the moon. A large percentage of university students believe that the earth is flat. Homosexuals march in the street in support of a Muslim country. The same Muslims would kill them and believe that they are doing their god a favour. These people will be running Western nations in the next few years. No wonder Americans vote for geriatrics. The alternatives are pretty grim. I'm 72 btw. I've seen a lot over my liftetime.

Of course cientific and every sort of other ignorance is
a thing, with many causes. Detailing it is merely tedious.

Offhand, though, I know of no powerful social
institution that mandates scientific ignorance
other than fundamentalist Christianity.

If there's another with even a tenth of the effect,
perhaps you can alleviate my ignorance in that regard.

 

[Divide]

Your claim is nonsense. You have no examples,
because it's impossible.

In Chinese culture its not hioourable to just
say things. Maybe it's ok in yours.

You could not make the claim that it is nonsense without knowing how I got there in my understanding. I would have to talk to you for several hours to give it all to you, and with your viewpoint on the gospel message it would likely be immediately rejected by you so what would be the point in trying to prove my viewpoint to you?

You dont want to hear a lot of YEC stuff. It'd probably just upset you. But I tell you one thing, if you want to know the truth about all of this, then read the book of truth. Not a book of truth, the book of truth, which is the Holy Bible.

 

[Divide]

Of course cientific and every sort of other ignorance is
a thing, with many causes. Detailing it is merely tedious.

And that is why I have not detailed it for you. You sound like you have already made u your mind.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The funny thing about the end times is Christ repeatedly says know one but the fathers knows the time. Personally when i think of end I think the end of all existence. The writers of Revelation had know understanding on how large the Universe is lol. For all that the bible says it does say the when of it. Our sun has another 5 billion years before it grows so large it engulfs earth. Odd are we got 10s of billions of years and everyone is obsessed with the end. And funny enough the world of star is not scientifically impossible. If everything went perfect we could be a type 1 civilization in a few hundred years. Humanity in the world of star trek is barley past type one. It is not impossible...know it is, the only way that world happens is if people start caring about the future and the only thing most people care about know matter what religion they are is themselves and there family and the world in 100 years does not matter to them.

The Bible does not tell us when the earth will end.