Israel-Hamas Thread II

[JosephZ]

Hamas has 200 hostages, and wants 150 palestinians in Jewish jails for commiting crimes agaist Israelis.?

Israel will be releasing women and children as part of the agreement.

“The agreement includes the release of 50 civilian women and children hostages currently held in the Gaza Strip in exchange for the release of a number of Palestinian women and children detained in Israeli prisons, the number of those released will be increased in later stages of implementing the agreement.”

 

[Pommer]

Israel will be releasing women and children as part of the agreement.

“The agreement includes the release of 50 civilian women and children hostages currently held in the Gaza Strip in exchange for the release of a number of Palestinian women and children detained in Israeli prisons, the number of those released will be increased in later stages of implementing the agreement.”

No, you see Israel are “the good guys”, they’d never take hostages. These must be “looters” or something, serial jaywalkers, perhaps?

 

[Carl Emerson]

No, you see Israel are “the good guys”, they’d never take hostages. These must be “looters” or something, serial jaywalkers, perhaps?

When society can no longer see who the bad guys are, we are in deep schmook.

That is what the philosophy of 'relative truth' leads to...

 

[Pommer]

When society can no longer see who the bad guys are, we are in deep smook.

So Israel just happened to be holding (at least) 50 Gazan women and children?
How lucky was that?

 

[Carl Emerson]

So Israel just happened to be holding (at least) 50 Gazan women and children?
How lucky was that?

Society can no longer see who the bad guys are...

 

[JosephZ]

No, you see Israel are “the good guys”, they’d never take hostages. These must be “looters” or something, serial jaywalkers, perhaps?

How about stone throwers?

It is estimated that there are between 500 and 1000 children held in Israeli military detention each year.

Save the Children and a partner organisation consulted 228 former child detainees from across the West Bank, detained from between one and 18 months, and found that most children are beaten, handcuffed and blindfolded during arrest.

The main alleged crime for these detentions is stone throwing, which can carry a 20-year sentence in prison for Palestinian children.

Save the Children’s consultation showed that:

• During arrest, 42% of children were injured, including gunshot wounds and broken bones, and 65% of children were arrested during the night, mostly between midnight and dawn. Half of all arrests took place in the children’s home.
• The majority of children experienced appalling levels of physical and emotional abuse, including being beaten (86%), being threatened with harm (70%), and hit with sticks or guns (60%).
• Some children reported violence and abuse of a sexual nature, including being hit or touched on the genitals and 69% reported being strip searched.
• 60% of children experienced solitary confinement with the length of time varying from one 1 day to as long as 48 days.
• Children were denied access to basic services, 70% said they suffered from hunger and 68% said they didn’t receive any healthcare.
• 58% of children were denied visits or communication with their family while detained.
• The majority of children detained are boys – a trend reflected by the survey, with boys representing 97% of the respondents.

Stripped, beaten and blindfolded: new research reveals ongoing violence and abuse of Palestinian children detained by Israeli military

Save the Children have issued a report on Palestinian children in Israeli military detention

www.savethechildren.net

 

[Valletta]

IDF troops delivered medical supplies to the hospital, including baby food and incubators for newborns. IDF soldiers who speak Arabic and IDF medical teams are working to ensure that the supplies reach those who need them.

Israeli Army Eliminates 5 Terrorists in Hamas Hospital, Patient Says "Hamas Can Go to Hell" as 236,000 Israelis Apply for Gun Permits | The Gateway Pundit | by Collin McMahon

The Israeli army IDF has entered the Hamas Headquarters in Al Shifa hospital and eliminated at least 5 terrorists.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[JosephZ]

IDF troops delivered medical supplies to the hospital, including baby food and incubators for newborns. IDF soldiers who speak Arabic and IDF medical teams are working to ensure that the supplies reach those who need them.

Israeli Army Eliminates 5 Terrorists in Hamas Hospital, Patient Says "Hamas Can Go to Hell" as 236,000 Israelis Apply for Gun Permits | The Gateway Pundit | by Collin McMahon

The Israeli army IDF has entered the Hamas Headquarters in Al Shifa hospital and eliminated at least 5 terrorists.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

Can you repost the USA Today article you linked to before changing it to this one?

 

[Bradskii]

How about stone throwers?

It is estimated that there are between 500 and 1000 children held in Israeli military detention each year.

Save the Children and a partner organisation consulted 228 former child detainees from across the West Bank, detained from between one and 18 months, and found that most children are beaten, handcuffed and blindfolded during arrest.

The main alleged crime for these detentions is stone throwing, which can carry a 20-year sentence in prison for Palestinian children.

Save the Children’s consultation showed that:

• During arrest, 42% of children were injured, including gunshot wounds and broken bones, and 65% of children were arrested during the night, mostly between midnight and dawn. Half of all arrests took place in the children’s home.
• The majority of children experienced appalling levels of physical and emotional abuse, including being beaten (86%), being threatened with harm (70%), and hit with sticks or guns (60%).
• Some children reported violence and abuse of a sexual nature, including being hit or touched on the genitals and 69% reported being strip searched.
• 60% of children experienced solitary confinement with the length of time varying from one 1 day to as long as 48 days.
• Children were denied access to basic services, 70% said they suffered from hunger and 68% said they didn’t receive any healthcare.
• 58% of children were denied visits or communication with their family while detained.
• The majority of children detained are boys – a trend reflected by the survey, with boys representing 97% of the respondents.

Stripped, beaten and blindfolded: new research reveals ongoing violence and abuse of Palestinian children detained by Israeli military

Save the Children have issued a report on Palestinian children in Israeli military detention

www.savethechildren.net

And you already know what the response is going to be. Is there any point in me pointing that out? I would like to think that any reasonable person would say 'IF that report is in someway correct, then I would join with you in condemning it outright'.

But what we will get is quite a lot of 'whatabout-ism' and claims that Save The Children is anti semitic and this is just anti-Israeli propaganda. So I might quote from their web page:

'With the death toll climbing, children are at risk and terrified in both the occupied Palestinian territory and Israel. Children have been killed and injured in every major escalation, not to mention suffering from serious longer term mental health impacts – they’ve never emerged unscathed. This violence is cutting Israeli and Palestinian children's lives short, ruining their futures and trampling on their rights.'

 

[rjs330]

It's also much different than stating flatly they have "committed no crimes" as if it's a proven fact.

Investigation first, conclusion second.

So both sides are incorrect.

And are also claiming that Palestine be investigated for war crimes as well?

 

[rjs330]

Then let's see if you can make any suggestions that aren't absolutely horrendous.

You first.

 

[rjs330]

nine members of the Arab League recognise Israel: Bahrain, Egypt, Jordan, Mauritania, Morocco, Oman, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Palestine

Oh I see okay, it's quite interesting to recognize a state and then desire too and try to wipe it out, wanting it to not exist. That makes a lot of sense. It would be like me telling my neighbor that I recognize their house as a place for them to live and constantly try to burn it down. I don't think I've really recognized their right to exist there at that point.

 

[Bradskii]

You first.

Here's a precis from our Foreign Minister. Full article here: A two-state solution is the only way that the Israel-Palestine problem can be solved | Penny Wong

"In affirming Israel’s right to defend itself, Israel’s friends – including Australia – have consistently emphasised that the way it does so matters.

So when Israel’s friends urge Israel to exercise restraint and protect civilian lives, it is critical that Israel listens. It matters for innocent civilians, who should not pay for horrors perpetrated by Hamas. And it matters for Israel’s own security, which faces grave risk if conflict spreads. The international community will not accept ongoing civilian deaths.

It is not possible to assure the interests of Israelis without also assuring the same for Palestinians.

A durable peace calls for people to see each other’s humanity. It requires all sides to respect the right of others to exist.

It will require the dismantling of Hamas – which doesn’t represent the Palestinian people – and a reformed, legitimate Palestinian Authority that disavows violence.

It will require serious international investment in the Palestinian economy, so Palestinians can build a future for themselves.

And it will require Israel to stop establishing settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories – that even the divided UN security council agreed is a “flagrant violation” of international law and a “major obstacle” to peace. Settler violence against Palestinians must cease and perpetrators held to account."

Now you can agree with that or propose your own solution.

 

[Vanellus]

Israel’s Cabinet on Wednesday approved a cease-fire deal with the Hamas militant group that would bring a temporary halt to a devastating war that has stretched on for over six weeks and release dozens of hostages being held in the Gaza Strip in exchange for Palestinians in Israeli prisons.

Under the deal, Hamas is to free 50 of the roughly 240 hostages it is holding in the Gaza Strip over a four-day period, the Israeli government said Wednesday. It said it would extend the lull by an additional day for every 10 hostages released.

The government said the first hostages to be released would be women and children.

Ahead of Wednesday morning’s Cabinet vote, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel would resume its offensive against Hamas after the cease-fire expires.

It was not immediately clear when the truce would go into effect.

Israeli Cabinet approves truce for hostages deal with Hamas; Palestinian prisoners also to be freed

Israel’s Cabinet on Wednesday approved a temporary cease-fire with the Hamas militant group that is expected to bring the first halt in fighting in a devastating six-week war and win freedom for dozens of hostages held captive in the Gaza Strip, in exchange for the release of Palestinians...

www.pbs.org

I can't remember who said it but I distinctly remember someone saying on a news channel not long after Oct 7 that Israel wouldn't stop/pause the killing of Gazans until they had achieved the historic approximate 10:1 death ratio as evidenced here:
https://statistics.btselem.org/en/all-fatalities/by-date-of-incident?section=overall&tab=overview

 

[Vanellus]

And you already know what the response is going to be. Is there any point in me pointing that out? I would like to think that any reasonable person would say 'IF that report is in someway correct, then I would join with you in condemning it outright'.

But what we will get is quite a lot of 'whatabout-ism' and claims that Save The Children is anti semitic and this is just anti-Israeli propaganda. So I might quote from their web page:

'With the death toll climbing, children are at risk and terrified in both the occupied Palestinian territory and Israel. Children have been killed and injured in every major escalation, not to mention suffering from serious longer term mental health impacts – they’ve never emerged unscathed. This violence is cutting Israeli and Palestinian children's lives short, ruining their futures and trampling on their rights.'

The Israeli government plays the antisemite card to distract from their illegal acts.

 

[rjs330]

17 years after their last election.

Well let's hope when this is over they get a new governing body and stop this "we need to attack Israel" nonsense. Focus on building your own country rather than trying to wreck someone else's.

I hope Israel has made it clear that any further aggressions will be dealt with severely.

 

[rjs330]

The Israeli government plays the antisemite card to distract from their illegal acts.

He haven't you heard we don't know if they have done any illegal acts until there has been an investigation.

 

[wing2000]

Oh I see okay, it's quite interesting to recognize a state and then desire too and try to wipe it out, wanting it to not exist. That makes a lot of sense. It would be like me telling my neighbor that I recognize their house as a place for them to live and constantly try to burn it down. I don't think I've really recognized their right to exist there at that point.

....or you could just admit the original statement was incorrect....and move on.

Ironically, it may have been the improving relations between Israel and some Arab countries that led Hamas to launch the attack. Hamas leaders are on record stating they wanted the world's attention to be on Gaza....

 

[wing2000]

United States fighter jets struck two sites in Iraq used by Iran-linked militants on Wednesday morning local time, according to U.S. Central Command and defense officials.

This is the fourth round of American retaliatory airstrikes in response to a near-daily spate of attacks on U.S. forces in Iraq and Syria by Iran-backed groups. The attacks began in mid-October, 10 days after Hamas' deadly terror attack on Israel. The Pentagon counts more than five dozen such attacks since then.

"U.S. forces have been attacked approximately 66 times since October 17," Pentagon Deputy Press Secretary Sabrina Singh told reporters Tuesday night. "32 separate times in Iraq, and 34 separate times in Syria."

Wednesday's strikes were partly in response to militants launching two close-range ballistic missiles at U.S. forces on al-Asad Airbase in western Iraq, injuring as many as eight service members. This was the first use of ballistic missiles against Americans in the region since mid-October, which the U.S. perceived as a definite escalation, a U.S. official told ABC News.

US hits Iran-backed militants with 4th round of retaliatory airstrikes

Iran-backed groups have attacked US forces more than 60 times since mid-Oct.

abcnews.go.com

 

[civilwarbuff]

17 years after their last election.

Their fault in the first place. Who, in their right mind, would think having terrorists run your govt is going to end well?