Kid's Corporal Punishment - a Risk to Mental Health

[Robban]

I’ve often wondered if the Biblical rod absolutely has to be literal. Does it always mean actually striking? Can it be figuratively applied? For example if I physically restrain a child from doing something unsafe, might that also be considered using the rod?

Aye, what came in my mind, Psalms 23:4

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

One other thing I wanted to mention: Even "go to your room" can be done abusively. If you're using profanity and yelling at the child to "get out of my sight this instant, I don't even want to look at you," then IMO that's abuse. If you authoritatively but calmly explain to the child what wrong was done, and then deliver a carefully controlled swat on the butt, that isn't.

In addition to my grandfather, I can remember two aunts who disciplined me correctly. One sat me in a chair while she thoroughly explained to me why what I had done was wrong. Another aunt lived at our house at various times during my childhood, and helped bring us up. Occasionally she spanked me. Never once did she abuse me. Difference? She never lost control. It was never done in anger. And it wasn't for every little thing. If she spanked me, it was because I had misbehaved, not because I was acting like a normal child, and she was just in a bad mood right now, or because I made a mistake.

 

[RDKirk]

I’ve often wondered if the Biblical rod absolutely has to be literal. Does it always mean actually striking? Can it be figuratively applied? For example if I physically restrain a child from doing something unsafe, might that also be considered using the rod?

The rod was also a measuring device, a standard. Indeed, when raising children, we must apply standards.

 

[Robban]

Facial expression and tone of voice was enough to give us a heads up.

There was eight of us, never was there any hitting of any sort, ever.


But maybe that is where honour your father and mother comes into the picture.

 

[FireDragon76]

It's a very easy lesson: if you instigate physical violence, you'll get a physical response that you do not enjoy. Failing to make a distinction between a smack on the rear end and a punch or a kick or any blow that can deal actual damage is amazing to me.

While I don't think spanking or the use of aversive stimuli is wrong in all cases, children generally respond better to parents leading a good example and emulating healthy behaviors. Children naturally want to please their parents.

 

[Sketcher]

While I don't think spanking or the use of aversive stimuli is wrong in all cases, children generally respond better to parents leading a good example and emulating healthy behaviors. Children naturally want to please their parents.

Of course, you need to do that too.

 

[Stephen3141]

Kid's Corporal Punishment - a Risk to Mental Health
Various sources*


A new study by the Australian Catholic University (ACU) has revealed that children who are smacked repeatedly by their parents are nearly twice as likely to develop anxiety and depression later in life.

The study of 8500 18 to 24 year olds found 61% experienced corporal punishment, as children, four or more times.

Females who were hit as kids were 1.8 times more likely to have a major depressive disorder, and 2.1 times to experience anxiety. Males were 1.7 times more likely to develop depression, and 1.6 times more likely to develop anxiety if they’d been smacked.

Professor Darryl Higgins, a lead researcher for the ACU study, believes it paints a clear picture that even infrequent exposure to corporal punishment puts children at risk of mental health disorders.

Professor Higgins is calling for smacking of children to be made illegal in Australia consistent with laws banning corporal punishment in 62 other countries.

According to the Global Initiative to End All Corporal Punishment of Children, the evidence that corporal punishment is harmful to children, adults and societies is overwhelming:

“The more than 250 studies included in our review of research on the impact of and associations with corporal punishment show links between corporal punishment and a wide range of negative outcomes, including:​

• direct physical harm
• negative impacts on mental and physical health
• poor moral internalisation and increased antisocial behaviour
• increased aggression in children
• increased violent and criminal behaviour in adults
• damaged education
• damaged family relationships
• increased acceptance and use of other forms of violence”

“The message from research is very clear: corporal punishment carries multiple risks of harm and has no benefits.”​

*Sources:

• Children who are smacked nearly twice as likely to develop mental health disorders later in life (9news.com.au)
• Childhood corporal punishment linked to lifelong mental health issues - ABC Melbourne
• Calls for Aussie parents to be banned from smacking their children | Daily Mail Online
• Shocking impact childhood smacking has on mental health (3aw.com.au)
• Research | Global Initiative to End All Corporal Punishment of Children (endcorporalpunishment.org)

OB

Are there any controls in these studies, to meter the discipline of the
parents meting out the punishment. Or the system of morality that
they are trying to teach their children?

These seem to be completely amoral studies of corporal punishment.

You may want to find studies that correlate corporal punishment, with
different moral systems. And then look at resulting statistics.

You may want to look at correlations between kids who had no disciplined
father in the home, versus those who did.

 

[Occams Barber]

Are there any controls in these studies, to meter the discipline of the
parents meting out the punishment. Or the system of morality that
they are trying to teach their children?

These seem to be completely amoral studies of corporal punishment.

You may want to find studies that correlate corporal punishment, with
different moral systems. And then look at resulting statistics.

You may want to look at correlations between kids who had no disciplined
father in the home, versus those who did.

This thread is about the use of corporal punishment to discipline children. It does not cover the particular moral codes of the 'discipliners' nor is it meant to.

There have been, at least, 250 studies, involving 161,000 children, on child corporal punishment over the last 50 years. At the bottom I've included a link to a summary of these studies along with a link to a detailed meta-analysis of all 250 studies

This is a summary of the summary.

A major 2002 meta-analysis of 88 studies found associations between lawful corporal punishment by parents and ten negative outcomes,3 and another major meta-analysis in 2016, which reviewed 75 studies published over 50 years, involving a total of 160,927 children,4 confirmed the findings of the earlier metaanalysis and found evidence of associations with five more negative outcomes. The evidence is now overwhelming – more than 300 studies show associations between corporal punishment and a wide range of negative outcomes, while no studies have found evidence of any benefits. This summary of research illustrates how corporal punishment violates not just children’s right to freedom from all violence, but also their rights to health, development and education, and has damaging effects on society as well as individuals. It supports arguments that the prohibition and elimination of corporal punishment is a low-cost effective public health measure, for example in the prevention of domestic violence, mental illness and antisocial behaviour and to support welfare, education and developmental outcomes for children. The information in this summary is taken from End Corporal Punishment’s longer working paper that examines corporal punishment’s impacts and associations in greater depth. You can read more about the research on any of the topics covered in this summary in our full working paper here​

​

Summary of 250 studies​

https://endcorporalpunishment.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Research-effects-summary-2021.pdf

​

​

Detailed report on 250 studies (Full Working Paper)​

https://endcorporalpunishment.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Research-effects-full-working-paper-2021.pdf

​

​

OB​

 

[timothyu]

Capital punishment might be an extreme, but corporal punishment that teaches there are consequences to actions is beneficially. Of course that would not involve violence or physical extremes. However today it is hilarious to see all these youngsters claiming abuse by their coaches in sports because the coach had the nerve to make them work hard to become skilled or benched them. There comes a point coddling goes to the extreme. I can see a time shortly where instructors of any kind will say it ain't worth it ant more.

 

[Occams Barber]

Capital punishment might be an extreme, but corporal punishment that teaches there are consequences to actions is beneficially. Of course that would not involve violence.

If the corporal punishment involves hitting/spanking/smacking children there are a pile of studies showing that it is harmful.

https://endcorporalpunishment.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Research-effects-summary-2021.pdf

However today it is hilarious to see all these youngsters claiming abuse by their coaches in sports because the coach had the nerve to make them work hard or benched them. There comes a point coddling goes to the extreme.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with this thread - I'm the OP.

OB

 

[timothyu]

If the corporal punishment involves hitting/spanking/smacking children there are a pile of studies showing that it is harmful.

That would depend upon the mental state of the inflictor. We also see scores of youngsters on the other side of the fence grow into adults who cannot handle rejection or restrictions of any kind. Gives us things like many of the 'me' movements today where rights are considered more important than responsibility. There needs to be a neutral ground,, a grey area.

 

[Occams Barber]

That would depend upon the mental state of the inflictor. We also see scores of youngsters on the other side of the fence grow into adults who cannot handle rejection or restrictions of any kind. Gives us things like many of the 'me' movements today where rights are considered more important than responsibility. There needs to be a neutral ground,, a grey area.

This thread is about parents hitting children as a means of 'discipline'. It is patently obvious from extensive research that this form of child abuse causes harm (see quote below) and has no benefits.

“The more than 250 studies included in our review of research on the impact of and associations with corporal punishment show links between corporal punishment and a wide range of negative outcomes, including:

• direct physical harm
• negative impacts on mental and physical health
• poor moral internalisation and increased antisocial behaviour
• increased aggression in children
• increased violent and criminal behaviour in adults
• damaged education
• damaged family relationships
• increased acceptance and use of other forms of violence”

“The message from research is very clear: corporal punishment carries multiple risks of harm and has no benefits.”

https://endcorporalpunishment.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Research-effects-summary-2021.pdf

OB

 

[Laodicean60]

As a child I was never hit.
I have two grown sons - I never found a reason to even consider hitting them as kids.
My grandkids have never been hit.

Hitting children is child abuse - plain and simple - and, as the OP shows, it has ramifications for future mental health and anti social behaviour.

OB

I remember in Houston in the 70s we received swats. Even our bus driver was able to give swats when he was caught shooting spit wads and the rubberband with folded paper. We even made paddles in woodshop and it was a badge of honor for the principal to use your paddle. If spankings cause violence then we should have been more violent in our days but we weren't not like today. Why do we have violence today is it the lack of discipline?

I'm curious about your mode of discipline in your kid's early years.

 

[Occams Barber]

I remember in Houston in the 70s we received swats. Even our bus driver was able to give swats when he was caught shooting spit wads and the rubberband with folded paper. We even made paddles in woodshop and it was a badge of honor for the principal to use your paddle. If spankings cause violence then we should have been more violent in our days but we weren't not like today. Why do we have violence today is it the lack of discipline?

I'm curious about your mode of discipline in your kid's early years.

Lots of positive reinforcement. Where needed - negative reinforcement by showing disapproval by using facial expression (like frowning) or a 'stern' voice. Explanations of why an act was inappropriate when they were old enough to understand.

Never showing anger.

Remembering that you are the role model for their behaviour.

OB

 

[Occams Barber]

Why do we have violence today is it the lack of discipline?

I doubt it.

My impression is that the US suffers from chronic insecurity which probably has its origins in the severe economic and industrial imbalance (ie. rich vs poor) along with the tendency to favour individual 'rights' over communal responsibility.

I am regularly amazed at the acceptance, by Americans, of low minimum wages and poor industrial conditions like leave etc. You also have one of the lowest rated medical systems in the Western world.

The high US Covid death rate was an appalling demonstration of placing individual rights over the public good. Guns are a similar problem.

Insecurity leads to violence and civil unrest.

OB

 

[Laodicean60]

Lots of positive reinforcement. Where needed - negative reinforcement by showing disapproval by using facial expression (like frowning) or a 'stern' voice. Explanations of why an act was inappropriate when they were old enough to understand.

Never showing anger.

Remembering that you are the role model for their behaviour.

OB

So you never had them in time-out? From 2-6 years old how did you use negative reinforcement? I find especially in those years if they want their way they will cry, get angry, and even hit their parents.
I will say one thing I noticed with all 6 grandkids they seem to listen to me better than they just with the negative reinforcement you mentioned. Respect? I don't know.

 

[Occams Barber]

From 2-6 years old how did you use negative reinforcement?

Two to six year olds are well aware of the nuances of body language and tone of voice.

I will say one thing I noticed with all 6 grandkids they seem to listen to me better than they just with the negative reinforcement you mentioned. Respect? I don't know.

Probably because you are more confident in the way you deal with them and, because you aren't their parent, you were probably cautious about applying more direct discipline. Effectively you are forced to consider how you will provide direction (I hate the word 'discipline).

Respect should not be expected automatically - it's earned (and highly overrated). As an older person I do not expect to be afforded respect simply because I'm older.

OB

 

[keith99]

One other thing I wanted to mention: Even "go to your room" can be done abusively. If you're using profanity and yelling at the child to "get out of my sight this instant, I don't even want to look at you," then IMO that's abuse. If you authoritatively but calmly explain to the child what wrong was done, and then deliver a carefully controlled swat on the butt, that isn't.

In addition to my grandfather, I can remember two aunts who disciplined me correctly. One sat me in a chair while she thoroughly explained to me why what I had done was wrong. Another aunt lived at our house at various times during my childhood, and helped bring us up. Occasionally she spanked me. Never once did she abuse me. Difference? She never lost control. It was never done in anger. And it wasn't for every little thing. If she spanked me, it was because I had misbehaved, not because I was acting like a normal child, and she was just in a bad mood right now, or because I made a mistake.

Years ago I came up with what I think might be the most important question to ask a child (or come to think about it adult) about any discipline.

Why did you get {fill in form of discipline here}.

If the answer is something like 'because I made mommy or daddy mad, it is a safe bet that it is abuse.

 

[RDKirk]

Years ago I came up with what I think might be the most important question to ask a child (or come to think about it adult) about any discipline.

Why did you get {fill in form of discipline here}.

If the answer is something like 'because I made mommy or daddy mad, it is a safe bet that it is abuse.

My four-year-old son would have said that about a time out.

The next question would be to ask if the child knew why mommy or daddy was mad.

 

[timothyu]

What does Bill Burr say?