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Without mentioning Trump or Democracy, why do you support Joe Biden for President.

The Barbarian

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Gaslighting is when you try and convince someone they are crazy for seeing, or objecting to, something that is obviously wrong or abusive

You are gaslighting everyone here when you say that the finances of our government are just fine under Biden, and that he reduced deficits by 1.7 trillion.
It is a fact that he reduced deficits by 1.7 trillion. However, you are gaslighting when you claim I said that the finances of our government are "just fine under Biden." Never said that.

Did you look up the difference between debt and deficit in our budget? Might help.
 
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The Barbarian

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It's about whether or not we can trust the nation to a man like that
We can't trust the government at all nor should we.
The problem is simple. If we don't have a government, someone will impose one on us. Hence elections and government. A pure democracy is impossible in any nation over a few thousand people, so representatives we trust to do it for us. No one gets absolute trust (hence checks and balances). But it remains true that some people are less trustworthy than others.
 
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Brihaha

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We can't trust the government at all nor should we. We instead separate ourselves from them. We submit but we don't become like them. Fighting over politics isn't God's way for us. That's what Gentiles do. We walk in the light of Christ, In love, gentleness and humility. We don't command anyone but we serve them. We always point to the light if Christ. That's our job. As far as I see anyway.

If Americans cannot trust their own government, please tell us why Americans continue to reelect the untrustworthy members of congress?


All 28 incumbent senators won reelection in 2022. That's 100% reelection rate. Congressional incumbents won 98% of their races. I am grateful to live in Virginia. Our commonwealth saw America's lowest incumbent reelection rate at 77%. Which still seems too high for the low approval rating Americans have with our government. It's a paradoxical dilemma.
 
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AlightSeeker

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If Americans cannot trust their own government, please tell us why Americans continue to reelect the untrustworthy members of congress?


All 28 incumbent senators won reelection in 2022. That's 100% reelection rate. Congressional incumbents won 98% of their races. I am grateful to live in Virginia. Our commonwealth saw America's lowest incumbent reelection rate at 77%. Which still seems too high for the low approval rating Americans have with our government. It's a paradoxical dilemma.
The world trusts its leaders but we Trust God alone.
 
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AlightSeeker

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It's about whether or not we can trust the nation to a man like that

The problem is simple. If we don't have a government, someone will impose one on us. Hence elections and government. A pure democracy is impossible in any nation over a few thousand people, so representatives we trust to do it for us. No one gets absolute trust (hence checks and balances). But it remains true that some people are less trustworthy than others.
We can't trust any nation at all. God has told us that they fornicate with the harlot of Babylon. Every single nation does. They cause us to drink the cup of her adulteries too. Isn't that what I've been saying? The nations lead us away from Gods holy command by the things they teach and do. God said not to concern ourselves with money or the concerns of this life but politicians dont do that, nor do they teach us to do that but the opposite actually. They fornicate with the harlot and cause us to drink her adulteries too. I say put faith in God alone and no government at all. Psalms said its better to trust in God than princes. Israel didn't know that though when they sought Egypts help instead of the Lord. This is all idolatry and adultery. Just like the harlot of Babylon isn't faithful to God.
 
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AlightSeeker

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It's about whether or not we can trust the nation to a man like that

The problem is simple. If we don't have a government, someone will impose one on us. Hence elections and government. A pure democracy is impossible in any nation over a few thousand people, so representatives we trust to do it for us. No one gets absolute trust (hence checks and balances). But it remains true that some people are less trustworthy than others.
You are worried that without the government we can't eat. But thats not Gods way. He Himself feeds us. That's what he said when he also said not to worry about money and the concerns of this life. You are worried that we need the government to rule over the ungodly. He does do that but its he who does it not us. We dont force them to do anything by law. God chooses the way he governs them. We need not concern ourselves with it. Paul says that he has nothing to do with judging the outside world because God judges them, not us. We judge only the church.
 
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Brihaha

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The world trusts its leaders but we Trust God alone.

Only authoritarian or autocratic nations seem to have a large majority of citizens who trust their government. Because it's better than being eliminated as vermin. The United States is at a dismal 42% who trust government. With encouragement from the very politicians who exacerbate our distrust to question whether they themselves should be given trust!


Though I trust God, I seem to make my life more difficult when I keep voting for the same people whom I distrust over and over. Like I said, it's a paradox. "I keep cutting this belt and it's still too short. Maybe I should cut it some more."
 
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AlightSeeker

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Only authoritarian or autocratic nations seem to have a large majority of citizens who trust their government. Because it's better than being eliminated as vermin. The United States is at a dismal 42% who trust government. With encouragement from the very politicians who exacerbate our distrust to question whether they themselves should be given trust!


Though I trust God, I seem to make my life more difficult when I keep voting for the same people whom I distrust over and over. Like I said, it's a paradox. "I keep cutting this belt and it's still too short. Maybe I should cut it some more."
You are not following God when you follow or become like the nations. You will never find peace in politics. Those people who follow politicians become like them. They fight over money and the concerns of this life. That is sin. It's adultery and idolatry.
 
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AlightSeeker

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Only authoritarian or autocratic nations seem to have a large majority of citizens who trust their government. Because it's better than being eliminated as vermin. The United States is at a dismal 42% who trust government. With encouragement from the very politicians who exacerbate our distrust to question whether they themselves should be given trust!


Though I trust God, I seem to make my life more difficult when I keep voting for the same people whom I distrust over and over. Like I said, it's a paradox. "I keep cutting this belt and it's still too short. Maybe I should cut it some more."
There is no peace in politics. As scripture below says, the way of peace they have not known. They pointed fingers and spoke wickedness. Isn't that what we do when we follow wicked politicians who fight over money and slander each other? Read this scripture and see if I'm wrong. When reading it, please realize that Jesus is our sabbath rest. We have no peace unless we obey Him. His yoke is easy and his burden lite. The yoke of wickedness is not, however. That yoke is mentioned here as well. Notice that we are supposed to take away the yoke. That's our command. We don't hang it on each other's neck. We take it away. This is an acceptable fast to the Lord.

Isaiah 58 “Cry aloud, spare not;
Lift up your voice like a trumpet;
Tell My people their transgression,
And the house of Jacob their sins.
2 Yet they seek Me daily,
And delight to know My ways,
As a nation that did righteousness,
And did not forsake the ordinance of their God.
They ask of Me the ordinances of justice;
They take delight in approaching God.
3 ‘Why have we fasted,’ they say, ‘and You have not seen?
Why have we afflicted our souls, and You take no notice?’
“In fact, in the day of your fast you find pleasure,
And exploit all your laborers.
4 Indeed you fast for strife and debate,
And to strike with the fist of wickedness.
You will not fast as you do this day,
To make your voice heard on high.
5 Is it a fast that I have chosen,
A day for a man to afflict his soul?
Is it to bow down his head like a bulrush,
And to spread out sackcloth and ashes?
Would you call this a fast,
And an acceptable day to the Lord?
6 “Is this not the fast that I have chosen:
To loose the bonds of wickedness,
To undo the heavy burdens,
To let the oppressed go free,
And that you break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your bread with the hungry,
And that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out;
When you see the naked, that you cover him,
And not hide yourself from your own flesh?
8 Then your light shall break forth like the morning,
Your healing shall spring forth speedily,
And your righteousness shall go before you;
The glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard.
9 Then you shall call, and the Lord will answer;
You shall cry, and He will say, ‘Here I am.
“If you take away the yoke from your midst,
The pointing of the finger, and speaking wickedness,
10 If you extend your soul to the hungry
And satisfy the afflicted soul,
Then your light shall dawn in the darkness,
And your darkness shall be as the noonday.
11 The Lord will guide you continually,
And satisfy your soul in drought,
And strengthen your bones;
You shall be like a watered garden,
And like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail.
12 Those from among you
Shall build the old waste places;
You shall raise up the foundations of many generations;
And you shall be called the Repairer of the Breach,
The Restorer of]Streets to Dwell In.
13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,
And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.
The mouth of the Lord has spoken
 
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AlightSeeker

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So instead of being concerned with the cares of this life and complaining about politics and each other, maybe we should sit at Jesus feet and hear his words. Choose the better thing. As the Lord said, only one thing is needed.

Luke 10:38 As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. 39 She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet listening to what he said. 40 But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, “Lord, don’t you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!”

41 “Martha, Martha,” the Lord answered, “you are worried and upset about many things, 42 but few things are needed—or indeed only one.[a] Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.”
 
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The Barbarian

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You are worried that without the government we can't eat.
No, I realize that if we had no government, someone will impose one on us. That's how it always works. This is why libertarian is more realistiic than anarchist.

You are worried that we need the government to rule over the ungodly.
I know that if we do not govern ourselves, someone will govern us.
 
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AlightSeeker

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No, I realize that if we had no government, someone will impose one on us. That's how it always works. This is why libertarian is more realistiic than anarchist.


I know that if we do not govern ourselves, someone will govern us.
God governs us and the world but he does it separately. Did God not make Israel submit to Babylonia and Rome? Didn't Israel rebel against Rome and try to govern themselves? What happened? They were utterly destroyed. They disobeyed God and tried running their own country because like you they didnt want idol worshippers to rule them. I know you mean well and you believe what you do is right, but i don't think it is right. We must put our faith and hope in God alone. Hasn't God commanded us not to worry about this life? Are we not in his hands? We don't lean on our understanding but on God. What has God commanded us to do?
 
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AlightSeeker

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No, I realize that if we had no government, someone will impose one on us. That's how it always works. This is why libertarian is more realistiic than anarchist.


I know that if we do not govern ourselves, someone will govern us.
I once loved politics. I loved Republicans and hated democrats. I ran my mouth and slandered people thinking I did right. But God shined light in me. He showed me my folly. Now I shine that light in us all. That I believe is my mission from God.
 
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AlightSeeker

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I once loved politics. I loved Republicans and hated democrats. I ran my mouth and slandered people thinking I did right. But God shined light in me. He showed me my folly. Now I shine that light on us all. That I believe is my mission from God.
 
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AlightSeeker

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No, I realize that if we had no government, someone will impose one on us. That's how it always works. This is why libertarian is more realistiic than anarchist.


I know that if we do not govern ourselves, someone will govern us.
I quit my politics because i saw what it did to us. I saw his commands. But I didn't always obey God in that. He was leading me out if it by his commands but when I saw that no one agreed with me, I went back to my politics. But praise the Lord he shined more light. I now see a clear path.
 
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FenderTL5

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Brihaha

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I quit my politics because i saw what it did to us. I saw his commands. But I didn't always obey God in that. He was leading me out if it by his commands but when I saw that no one agreed with me, I went back to my politics. But praise the Lord he shined more light. I now see a clear path.

So....did you quit voting altogether?
I can respect that.

You are not following God when you follow or become like the nations. You will never find peace in politics. Those people who follow politicians become like them. They fight over money and the concerns of this life. That is sin. It's adultery and idolatry.

I will never follow or worship politicians. But I will try to help find respectable candidates to represent me in government. I cannot abdicate my responsibility as a mortal living in the greatest democratic republic in the world. Our goal is not necessarily to "become like the nations." Our goal was always to be the benchmark for a successful democracy. This cannot happen when citizens abdicate their responsibility to educate themselves and choose candidates who actually revere our democracy instead of undermine it. Standing by and watching is nearly as counterproductive as what the corrupt actors now feel free to do and say. Sure God is in charge, but who do you reckon he charges with carrying out His will?
 
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AlightSeeker

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So....did you quit voting altogether?
I can respect that.



I will never follow or worship politicians. But I will try to help find respectable candidates to represent me in government. I cannot abdicate my responsibility as a mortal living in the greatest democratic republic in the world. Our goal is not necessarily to "become like the nations." Our goal was always to be the benchmark for a successful democracy. This cannot happen when citizens abdicate their responsibility to educate themselves and choose candidates who actually revere our democracy instead of undermine it. Standing by and watching is nearly as counterproductive as what the corrupt actors now feel free to do and say. Sure God is in charge, but who do you reckon he charges with carrying out His will?
No I don't vote. That involves running the world which we are not commanded to do.. To the contrary he teaches us the opposite. We don't Lord over unbelievers. We don't even Lord over each other. God's word does master us however. God runs the world and doesn't need our help. You say you're not worshipping politicians or the world but what are we worshipping when we dont follow God's commands? I'm not accusing you but just want to to ask yourself. It's between you and God.
 
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Brihaha

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No I don't vote. That involves running the world which we are not commanded to do.. To the contrary he teaches us the opposite. We don't Lord over unbelievers. We don't even Lord over each other. God's word does master us however. God runs the world and doesn't need our help. You say you're not worshipping politicians or the world but what are we worshipping when we dont follow God's commands? I'm not accusing you but just want to to ask yourself. It's between you and God.

So Christians in the United States shouldn't vote? Whew, that's a relief. Because of, and despite, the fact I am Christian haha. I'm absolutely trying my best to follow Him. You demonstrate admirable faith, I'll admit. I'm having a weird day so maybe my confusion is my own doing. Have a nice day my friend.
 
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AlightSeeker

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So Christians in the United States shouldn't vote? Whew, that's a relief. Because of, and despite, the fact I am Christian haha. I'm absolutely trying my best to follow Him. You demonstrate admirable faith, I'll admit. I'm having a weird day so maybe my confusion is my own doing. Have a nice day my friend.
Im not all knowing and understanding. I can only say what I see. I dont see voting or politics as God's way but actually leads us away from his way.
 
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