Israel-Hamas Thread II

[JosephZ]

The Israeli army said Thursday it had found the body of a woman hostage seized by Hamas militants near the largest hospital in the Gaza Strip.

The body of Yehudit Weiss, who was abducted from her home in a kibbutz near the Gaza border on October 7, "was extracted by IDF troops from a structure adjacent to Shifa hospital" in Gaza City, an army statement said.

Israel Army Says Body Of Hostage Found Near Gaza Hospital

The Israeli army said Thursday it had found the body of a woman hostage seized by Hamas militants near the largest hospital in the Gaza Strip.

www.barrons.com

 

[truthpls]

Gee, too bad for Hamas that in withdrawing from their base there, in/under the hospital (that had been built by Israel in the past[?]), that someone “forgot” these incriminating items, huh?

Have you a source for the claim Israel build tunnels under the hospital? I suppose since they are there now, they might have a safe HQ if Hamas is civil enough to not attack hospitals. Funny that Israel attacked hospitals.

 

[Pommer]

Have you a source for the claim Israel build tunnels under the hospital? I suppose since they are there now, they might have a safe HQ if Hamas is civil enough to not attack hospitals. Funny that Israel attacked hospitals.

Try this, it’s a link to a way back machine of an article from the left leaning Haaretz publication.

 

[rjs330]

Another possibility is that they were planted. But Israel knows there is an underground bunker since it was built by Israel in the 1980s. Once they have suitably kitted it out I'm expecting a fantastic expose by the ever truthful (not) IDF.

You are being dishonest. Israel sis not build a bunker. Your own article, despite using a biased word stated what they built and why they built it. Don't be dishonest.

 

[rjs330]

Try this, it’s a link to a way back machine of an article from the left leaning Haaretz publication.

I'm not think you really read the article or understand it. Here's what was written.

The Israeli civil administration in the territories constructed the hospital complex's Building Number 2, which has a large cement basement that housed the hospital's laundry and various administrative services.

During a cabinet meeting a week ago, Shin Bet chief Yuval Diskin said senior Hamas officials found refuge in the hospital basement because they know Israel would not target it, due to the patients in the upper floors. Palestinian sources told Haaretz that not all the senior Hamas leaders are hiding in one place.

1. It was built NOT as a "bunker" as the pro Hamas crowd wants you to believe.
2. It was built by the Israeli's to HELP Palestinians.
3. It was built as a basement for Admin and Laundry. Gee much like hospitals in the US. I've been in several hospital basements. Gurs what's commonly there? Laundry and some administrative offices.
4. Hamas had found refuge in the hospital because they knew Israel wouldn't attack it.
5. Not all senior leaders were there.

Be fair about what you are saying about this.
Did you somehow expect Hamas to make a "Last heroic" stand and leave everything behind when they have known for sometime now that Israel was coming? If you were a terrorist would you? Shoot if you were a military person would you do that if you could escape and take most of the stuff with you?

It's pretty foolish to think they would stay, have a last stand and leave everything behind.

 

[truthpls]

Try this, it’s a link to a way back machine of an article from the left leaning Haaretz publication.

tks

 

[rjs330]

Gee, too bad for Hamas that in withdrawing from their base there, in/under the hospital (that had been built by Israel in the past[?]), that someone “forgot” these incriminating items, huh?

Yup too bad for them. Evidence that they were in fact using the hospital just as was known for years. What's too bad is that they didn't leave more. They had too much time and advance notice that Israel was coming. But that would be expected honestly as Israel didn't want to harm the people in the hospital. Just like everyone was wanting them not not. They are humane rather than animalistic like Hamas.

 

[rjs330]

tks

See post 467. The article doesn't really say what some are claiming it says. There is some journalistic language there, but the actual article doesn't say what some here are claiming it says.

 

[truthpls]

See post 467. The article doesn't really say what some are claiming it says. There is some journalistic language there, but the actual article doesn't say what some here are claiming it says.

So you dispute that Israel built tunnels. A fact check site disagrees.

"True.

Multiple sources have corroborated that a bunker or basement was built at Israel's discretion in the 1980s."

Fact check: Did Israel build bunker under Shifa Hospital?

Israel Defense Forces on Wednesday entered Gaza's largest hospital, which it says houses Hamas' main command center.

www.newsweek.com

The question arises, if Israel forces all people out of the building, who is to verify any weapons etc that they say they find there actually were there?

 

[Vambram]

UN Security council calls for extended pause in Israel-Hamas war as IDF strikes Hamas leaders

The United Nations Security Council called for a days-long pause in fighting in Gaza on Thursday as Israeli forces continued to strike against Hamas leaders in Gaza City. Israeli forces took control of the Al-Shifa Hospital and are working to "destroy" Hamas in the region.

www.foxnews.com

Israeli troops discovered a hidden booby-trapped vehicle inside the complex of a Hamas-run hospital in Gaza, the Israel Defense Forces said Thursday.
In a video posted to X, the IDF said the vehicle contained AK-47 rifles, grenades, RPGs, sniper rifles and other explosives.
“This is what Hamas is trying to hide from you,” an IDF spokesperson said in the footage.
Near the vehicle were weapons, ammunition and other items, including handcuffs and knives displayed on the ground, the IDF said.
“And where they’re hiding all this equipment is in the hospital,” the spokesperson said. “A place that’s supposed to be for humanitarian aid. They have all this evil hidden here.”
“This is where they choose to hide everything because they know the IDF won’t attack, the air force won’t attack here," he added. "They use the hospital as human shields."

Israel has long claimed tat Hamas has used hospitals and other sensitive locations as cover to conceal its military operations.

On Tuesday, John Kirby, spokesman for the National Security Council, said that intelligence supports Israel's claims about Hamas activities in hospitals.

"I can confirm for you that we have information that Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad use some hospitals in the Gaza Strip, including al-Shifa, and tunnels underneath them, to conceal and to support their military operations and to hold hostages," Kirby told reporters on Air Force One.

 

[truthpls]

<script type="text/javascript" src="https://video.foxnews.com/v/embed.js?id=6341263488112&w=466&h=263"></script><noscript>Watch the latest video at <a href="https://www.foxnews.com">foxnews.com</a></noscript>

Israeli troops discovered a hidden booby-trapped vehicle inside the complex of a Hamas-run hospital in Gaza, the Israel Defense Forces said Thursday.
In a video posted to X, the IDF said the vehicle contained AK-47 rifles, grenades, RPGs, sniper rifles and other explosives.
“This is what Hamas is trying to hide from you,” an IDF spokesperson said in the footage.
Near the vehicle were weapons, ammunition and other items, including handcuffs and knives displayed on the ground, the IDF said.
“And where they’re hiding all this equipment is in the hospital,” the spokesperson said. “A place that’s supposed to be for humanitarian aid. They have all this evil hidden here.”
“This is where they choose to hide everything because they know the IDF won’t attack, the air force won’t attack here," he added. "They use the hospital as human shields."

Israel has long claimed tat Hamas has used hospitals and other sensitive locations as cover to conceal its military operations.

On Tuesday, John Kirby, spokesman for the National Security Council, said that intelligence supports Israel's claims about Hamas activities in hospitals.

"I can confirm for you that we have information that Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad use some hospitals in the Gaza Strip, including al-Shifa, and tunnels underneath them, to conceal and to support their military operations and to hold hostages," Kirby told reporters on Air Force One.

So a vehicle with weapons was 'found' in a hospital that Israel took over. To verify this we ask, who? IDF?

 

[essentialsaltes]

So a vehicle with weapons was 'found' in a hospital

not exactly: "inside the complex of a Hamas-run hospital".

The video shows the vehicle in a parking lot or flagstoned courtyard. The soldier lifts up the tarp and points to the main hospital building which is some distance away.

 

[rjs330]

So you dispute that Israel built tunnels. A fact check site disagrees.

"True.

Multiple sources have corroborated that a bunker or basement was built at Israel's discretion in the 1980s."

Fact check: Did Israel build bunker under Shifa Hospital?

Israel Defense Forces on Wednesday entered Gaza's largest hospital, which it says houses Hamas' main command center.

www.newsweek.com

The question arises, if Israel forces all people out of the building, who is to verify any weapons etc that they say they find there actually were there?

Did you even read my post. I answered all your questions there. I don't think you read it at all. If you did you would not have responded the way your did.

 

[Vanellus]

By Thursday afternoon, the only evidence that the Israeli military had so far provided publicly of Al-Shifa’s purported dual use was video showing some weapons and equipment — about a dozen guns, a grenade, protective vests and military uniforms — that it said soldiers found within an M.R.I. unit at the hospital. The New York Times has been unable to verify the provenance of the weapons.

Israel-Hamas War: Israeli Forces Comb Gaza Hospital for 2nd Day (Published 2023)

The Israeli military said it had recovered the body of a hostage kidnapped in the Oct. 7 Hamas attack, from a building near Al-Shifa Hospital. It presented weapons it said it found at the hospital, which it says Hamas used as a base.

www.nytimes.com

IMO, Hamas has been using the hospital for military purposes. Hamas is savy enough to have to have moved out long before the IDF arrived...as they knew it would reflect badly on the Israelis ...which, afterall, is one of the main objectives of their attack on Israel.

The problem for the IDF here is that an attack on the hospital can only be justified if Hamas were using the hospital at the time of the Israeli attack and the hospital has been hit by the Israelis e.g.

Shelling at Gaza's Al-Shifa Hospital: Evidence points to Israeli responsibility

On the evening of November 9, a projectile fell over Gaza's largest hospital. Moments later, two men were wounded, one very seriously, and a shell fragment was found at their feet. Le Monde can confirm that it was an Israeli illuminating shell.

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2283348547531

The Gaza Health Ministry released a video Wednesday that it said was shot at least a day earlier, showing the scene inside Al-Shifa Hospital before Israeli troops entered it Wednesday. It shows people on hospital beds being wheeled down corridors, and thick clouds of dust that a man off-screen said were caused by a shell that struck the building.

 

[rjs330]

So a vehicle with weapons was 'found' in a hospital that Israel took over. To verify this we ask, who? IDF?

What, you want to be there? Give me a break. Who exactly do you want to be there? We have people accusing IDF of all kinds of things. Where is your evidence that they planted this stuff? You got something none of us know about?

 

[rjs330]

The problem for the IDF here is that an attack on the hospital can only be justified if Hamas were using the hospital at the time of the Israeli attack and the hospital has been hit by the Israelis e.g.

Shelling at Gaza's Al-Shifa Hospital: Evidence points to Israeli responsibility



https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2283348547531

No they don't have to prove that. They just have to prove they have been using the hospital. They do not have to prove it was used the second they went in. That's a ridiculous and impossible task. What if the day before Hamas was there and bailed? You expect them to know that? What kind of ridiculous burrin of proof are you demanding? That's absolutely asinine. Especially when you are not dealing with a force that has no uniforms and looks like every citizen in the nation.

 

[truthpls]

not exactly: "inside the complex of a Hamas-run hospital".

The video shows the vehicle in a parking lot or flagstoned courtyard. The soldier lifts up the tarp and points to the main hospital building which is some distance away.

I guess the question who drove the jeep in?

 

[truthpls]

Did you even read my post. I answered all your questions there. I don't think you read it at all. If you did you would not have responded the way your did.

OK So maybe we agree?

 

[Vambram]

On Tuesday, John Kirby, spokesman for the National Security Council, said that intelligence supports Israel's claims about Hamas activities in hospitals.

"I can confirm for you that we have information that Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad use some hospitals in the Gaza Strip, including al-Shifa, and tunnels underneath them, to conceal and to support their military operations and to hold hostages," Kirby told reporters on Air Force One.

 

[truthpls]

What, you want to be there? Give me a break. Who exactly do you want to be there? We have people accusing IDF of all kinds of things. Where is your evidence that they planted this stuff? You got something none of us know about?

They accuse others of stuff. Where is the independent verification? Why evacuate witnesses from the hospital before 'discovering' some car with weapons or something? We do know the IDF has killed over 11,000 people, none of whom I recall were verified to be Hamas. So any claim coming from them must be verifed.